New member - A few things on my mind.
 

Hey guys, new to the site - glad to have found it!

I've been following the FT-86 (FR-S for those of us in the states) for a while now, and now that it's getting closer to being released I've figured that it's time for me to start chatting with some people who are also interested in the car. I haven't made up my mind if I'm going to get one or not, but I'm in the market for a new car. I won't make the decision to get one until I've seen the numbers and taken it for a spin (pretty much like everybody else). But I am definitely holding off on buying something until I find out more about this car. I've been a Toyota/Nissan guy for several years. I've had a 7th gen. Celica, MR2 Turbo, MKIV TT Supra and single turbo, and an S13 240sx. All really fun cars, and I'm excited that the FR-S might fit right into my "style".

I know we don't know anything for sure, and nothing's really set in stone. But I've heard that we can expect this car to be around 197hp, 2,800lbs, and cost around $25k-$30k. It's supposed to be a good handling car, but not necessarily be one of the quickest. My only concern is that this car might fall into the RX-8 "gray" area of the market. I'm not putting the RX-8 down, but it has been hard for me to justify purchasing one (despite the frequent complaints regarding the rotary's reliability issues). I just feel like with the way 95% of people drive, they will never get to experience what the RX-8 (or the FR-S) for that matter is capable of. And it kinda gives it a bad reputation in a way. I know this car is kinda hinting back at the AE86 which was light and agile, and didn't have a whole lot of power, but if the FR-S starts to creep its price up into the 3.8 Genesis Coupe price range, I'm going to see it having a hard time competing with several different cars out there for the pirce. I'm just hoping that this car will be able to get 30+ mpg and cost less than $25k. I'm not bashing the car... I've been following it for a long time, but even being the Toyota fan that I am, I won't purchase something that I cant justify. With the numbers that I've heard so far, I just can't say I'm totally for this new ride yet. I guess I just wish they wouldn't get too wrapped up in the handling characteristics of the car - of course it's important, but I don't feel that it will be able to redeem the "Toyota sports car spirit", with dead on precise cornering and handling articulation, while constantly getting passed in the straights and being left at stoplights. But, to each their own I suppose.


Anyway, this is just speculation on my part - Things I've been kicking around in my head - I'm very excited about this car - and I am hoping it's going to exceed my expectations! This is just something that's been on my mind. Has anybody else kinda been thinking about this car like I have?

Yeah, this isn't a performance car, but a driver's car. ^^lol at that but anyways...

Engine swaps, will most likely be popular with this car.. Let's put it the 240sx of this decade. Lots and lots of accessories will be available for this car too.

If anything, you can test drive it when it releases.

@OP:
This is not the car for you

Agreed with above. Cant you HP guys just go buy a Mustang GT? All the hp you could want.

in all honesty that gt will probably outhandle this thing. but i do believe this car will be more fun. i think chasing fun is really the way to go and i hope that the market will reward such thinking.

thats a bold statement, good thing you used the word probably

All this info in the past week or so has been incredible, we've seen plenty of new members here getting even more hyped about the car. But honestly, the more I see and read, the less interested I become. Maybe the official announcements will change that.

Right now it seems to me that they've: missed their target weight, missed their target price range, created an absolutely hideous rear end, and alienated some potential customers with a single engine offering. They've kinda spun that latter bit to say "For a fun car, you don't need any more than that." I'm starting to worry that the car might not take well to much more power in the first place. I still want to test drive the car myself, but I wasn't blown away by the reviewers' comments on the handling.

Luckily I'm in no rush to buy right now, just riding the hype roller coaster.

Which is why they will make you wait 7 years for the next supra. /trollface.jpg

I know I'm way too poor considering what they'd be asking for a new Supra. Something rotary powered on the other hand...

As far as the engine goes, I think we should still wait for specs...As you've seen, some of the (apparently reliable) sources suggest 213PS rather than 197. 213 is actually a very very impressive number given the rev limit, maybe this engine will have some surprises in store.

>_> Which source is reliable and which is not?

I have no idea, we just have to see ;) Pray it's at the higher end.

I hope you're not referring to price :P lol.

Though I do expect the price to be less than the WRX for Subaru's version (midpoint between that and the Impreza) and give or take 2k over the tC for Scion. Otherwise... ... yeah... lol I'll be one sad panda.

well the mustang corners great. stops in equal fashion. the limits are too high to really play with traction at least for me. im sure there is going to be a better transient response simply because of the weight and focus on keeping weight central and low. i think it has a chance because it they seemed to be focused on how it handles at the limit and not where the limit is. its too early to tell but i think it will have enough of an impact to keep them interested in making sports cars. however i wont buy one as long as there are still used elises when i get out of school this time around

I completely agree, I feel as though everything has been overshot just enough to the point to where I will probably... simply... just consider something else. If this car were sub $20k, it would be a different story. But it definitely doesn't look like that's going to be the case. I've had a lot of hope for this car, but just by saying that this is a "drivers car" you don't need hp to have fun doesn't appeal to me. Maybe it does to others, but I don't believe that outlook will allow this car to redeem the legendary rwd Toyota sports cars of the past, thus we shouldn't make it out to be any different than any other new car. It's a new "fun" car, that's going to be heavier, more expensive, not as cool looking as we expected, and less powerful than we had all hoped... but still fun!...? There's only so far you can go with it. :iono:

Those "target" items were slightly overstated to garner tons of initial interest and probably push internal development.

Say 30% of those initially interested walk away because it doesn't live up to expectations. From Toyota's marketing POV... that's OK! Because 100% of the people who would have settled for less did end up buying it including some who were on the fence. At least more than enough people knew about it. A classic marketing tactic that works. (Unfortunately used in the housing industry where buyer and seller agree on a price, put money into an approval process, then get rejected months later by banks who want tens of thousands more ...but I digress.)

On the other side of this token... engineering and manufacturing are given target specs and a cost slightly beyond what's achievable. Big boss Akio commands his marketing team to announce that target to... the WORLD?! That holds developers accountable not to big boss but the ultimate boss - the consumer. Developers are forced to innovate. Near the end of development - which probably happened this past week - they realize they will miss the target (barely). Don't tell the customers yet; they might dismiss our project prematurely! Yes, we missed our target but we worked our asses off (any ft86clubbers notice this?) to deliver our best possible product. To be fair, customers will get their chance to dismiss/approve our work on the showroom floor and test drive. Pushing the envelope - a classic practice on the development side of the corporate world.

In the end, most people on either side of the token will be happy. A few will walk away disappointed.

Always had my heart set on a 7th gen Celica GTS and it was pretty pricey at the time for what it was. 22k-25k is fine with me, I'll be keeping it for probably along time. If it lacks the handling and power i have no problem improving it myself just like if I got a celica.

So far, my only gripe is the estimated 2,800lbs weight. I just don't see why this car would weight 300lbs over the mx-5.
(Is the Subaru's 2.0 NA boxer engine generally considered a heavy engine?)

My optimistic theory is that Toyata/Subaru are trying to surprise us when they release the final spec at the TAS. With so much information that has already been leaked, they gotta have at least one thing hidden up in their sleeves to catch us off guard. :)

As long as the official weight comes under 2,700lbs, I would most likely purchase this vehicle.

this, just this!

Although I am probably a BRZ person vs the Scion let me make a few comments.
I am differently an older member here, and have owned many cars.

Fun is the most important aspect of owning a car.
My current car BMW 335i coupe is a very competent car, but not fun.
The two miatas I owned were fun every time you got into the car.
So the reviews for the toyosubaru are spot on for me.
Others cars I am considering.............

BRZ
Miata ND
BMW 2 coupe
Rumor of Acura RSX-S coming
redesign VW GTI

May the most fun car win!

youre in luck mate, 1210kg for manual low spec in the other thread :)

This is a really great news! It sure was the good surprise! Mate!:)

I think the 25 thousand base price is going 2 scare me away.

i got a question aswell. might sound a bit stupid but ive never bought a new car directly when it came out so what im basicly wondering is:

the german autobild says release "May 2012". does that mean the car will just start to be produced in may or can you order the car earlier already and the first cars are being given out in may? how does that work? and how long does toyota and scion usually take to produce a car? 3 months?

IMHO, the 25k base price is too high especially for the scion model. You should not be scared away!:)

if the base price stays around the 20k range u can bet I will be waiting outside the dealership 2 order one but I just can't justify spending 25k plus a like 2grand on options

My speculation is that the scion base model will not exceed 22k and it will come with 16 inch wheels and not many standard options to keep the price low. Of course, you will be able to add things like larger wheels,etc. as options and accessory items, not to mention the fancy TRD upgrades.

No one knows for sure.

Toyota/Subaru should release that info at TMS, or maybe they'll "leak" it before then.

I'm not crazy about its performance. I just hope it lives up to its AE86 history as the perfect car to drift.

Very well said; I am curious - Where do you stand with this car? I know it's hard to be certain about something that we don't have official specs and prices for, but I am wondering which way you are leaning, and how far you are willing to lean when it comes time to purchase this car, if you are considering that route.

Production line begins May 2012 at Subaru's build center in Gunma Perfecture, Japan. You'll be able to order earlier.

In college I was taught to do calculations based on the worst case scenario so naturally I've been expecting the lesser power, higher weight, and higher cost within the expected marketed ranges. Even if the final product fell at the worse ends, I wouldn't dismiss it til I've driven it (plus I'm not too picky about power/weight as I am on price since I don't go to the track).

I'm answering a little late (after the spec leak)... but the fact Toyota met spec goals makes me think they'll deliver on the average expected price ($25k) instead of my original expectation (on the higher end, $28k).

how long does toyota / subaru / scion usually take to produce a car? the production time can change alot from manufacturer to manufacturer.... for example volkswagen needs like 3 months. A hyundai can take up to 8 months. Im not willed to wait another 8 months after the release date in may to get my hands on the car... :(

I'm calling it right now. The base model Scion will start $19k.

No way. They'll want some daylight between the tC and this. I'm calling $23K. Surely it'll be at least as much as a Civic Si.

On the upside, that should be enough for a little bit of kit from the premium model. Personally, I'm crossing my fingers for the auto climate control.

If they're only going to release two per dealer, then the FR-S' are going to sell like hotcakes (regardless of the price)! i hope the base scion is dirt cheap, but I have a feeling that the base will be about 24-25k and then one fully loaded will be 30k+. I just wonder how many of these "accessories" will be available at launch.

I've driven every single single sports car on the market under $50000 and I hate almost every single one of them. The RX-8 is more fun to drive than a 370z. Nissan/Infiniti should be ashamed of the standard transmissions they put in their cars.
My 1990 Miata is more fun to drive than any of todays heavy shit-boxes. Safety features and crash-proof frames are ruining sports cars.

Mustang/Camaro/Genesis/G37/370z Review: FAST AND BORING! Bloated, heavy, no steering feel, abysmal transmissions. They all suck.

Light, nimble, "Feels fast" and a superb manual transmission are all that matter. If the FRS/BRZ are as much fun to drive as an NA Miata then I'll buy one... even if it takes 9 seconds to reach 60mph.

To quote Jeremy Clarkson: The MX-5 “feels more alive at 30 mph than most cars do at 100”

That comment above is all I want from the FRS/BRZ

Edit: Test Drove another RX7 FD and a Honda S2000 recently... MAGIC. This is what SPORTS CAR is supposed to feel like. Oh and the transmission in the S2000 shits all over any car currently in production today. I want to try an NSX so bad now it's crazy.

I also hated this crash proof adds that most cars have... but after being rear ended by a stupid kid who wasn't looking at the road going 45mph(72kph)(also found out that he was going 45) and totaling our car 10' FIT. Iono man. I'll take some of that extra added stuff just in case.

Also the S2k's Tranny is awesome I agree! But on canyon carving runs you start getting white hands. Which are essentially gripping your steering wheel with a death grip and not getting circulation through. Lol

That is a great problem to have... I found the clutch in the S2000 heavy with very short travel but I'm sure I just need to get used to it. The shifter has wonderfully short throws with a superb direct-notchy feel. I LOVE the shifter, it's bodacious.

Nissans on the other hand... holy christ where do I start? Nissan transmissions are about as driver focused as a stoned 16 year old driver with a smart phone in his hand!

Funny fact: I've never liked any car that weighs more than 2800 pounds. I didn't realize that my 1994 WRX hatch weighed 2800 pounds. I fit 8 DINING ROOM CHAIRS IN THAT THING! Amazing.

Two things I'm still concerned about: the first is the price. The second is the shifter and pedal feel. I've driven a number of Subarus, mostly the cheap ones and very pointedly never an STi, but the shifters have always been vague and rubbery and disappointing. Soft brake pedals can be a problem too.

I'm sure Subaru engineers are perfectly capable of designing a wonderfully direct shifter, but in the back of my mind I fear they may have overlooked it in the name of cost-cutting.