Subaru BRZ Prototype Review by Car and Driver. Calls it a Knockout.
 

The first review of the Subaru BRZ prototype is in from Car and Driver

Here's some of the more interesting bits from the article:

• Only Subaru personnel responsible for engineering and at test track.
• Engineering of the prototype dictated the final car's styling rather than vice versa.
• Toyota's role was styling the car.
• Production line begins May 2012 at Subaru's build center in Gunma Perfecture, Japan
• Car will be welded from regular materials such as steel, except for aluminum hood

• Subaru and Toyota will share nearly identical versions, sharing:
  • Subaru flat four FB20 2.0L 200+ hp engine, using Toyota's D4Sport dual port and direct-injection technology (7500rpm redline)
  • two Aisin 6-speed transmissions (one manual and a conventional automatic). Auto will have 3 modes - auto, manual, and 'temporary manual'
  • one basic interior
  • one set of body stampings and glass
  • ** badges, wheels, and small trim items will be different

• Suspension is impreza-derived, with coil-over struts in front and three-link rear suspension.
• Motor will sit 4.7" lower than Impreza's placement and 9.4" inches closer to the center of the car.
• No sunroof.
• Notchback trunk (not a hatchback).
• Target curb weight during prototyping was 2800 pounds.
• Center of gravity: 17.7 inches high (1" lower than Cayman).
• Base sticker expected at $28,000 (estimated).

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oh boy, this is going to be a fun thread. Thanks for the article.

Here are the details

-Toyota/Scion and Subaru will have same engine. 210hp@6500rpm and 170lb.ft at 4000rpm
-"badges, wheels, and some small trim items will be different"
-"we delivered the best chassis we could, and then the styling was basically Toyota's role"
-Toyota: product planning and styling, Subaru: engineering, testing, and production
-push to start
-they estimate $28,000 and 2800-2900lbs. Count me out if those numbers are true.
-4 seats, trunk (no hatchback)
-donut spare tire
-"The BRZ feels more like a joint venture between Subaru and Lotus than a collaboration with Camrys-by-the-billions, LTD"
-7500RPM redline
-AL hood
-AL block and heads
-production starts May 2012
-0-60: 6.0sec, 1/4 mile 14.8 sec
-mpg: 19/27

I don't see anything here at work :(. And from the article title all I can say is bullshit. I put more of the work on Toyota than Subie

I predict it will be. FWIW I think they are full of shit. We've seen this car @ Toyota's garage at the ring.

Me too

That better be the Subie price or they will have almost no support for this car.

price, weight, and mpg all sound fishy to me

Yes because we all forgot that Subaru developed the D4-S injection system and gave it to Toyota in 2007, being so awesome that they don't need it on their own cars... fucksakes...

All these continuous, chest-thumping 'WE DID EVERYTHING IMPORTANT AND TOYOTA JUST WATCHED AND PAID US!!!' press releases by Subaru, when they clearly didn't, are making me lose a lot of respect for them.

Gotta love speculation! I'd buy it if it were either:

$28K, 0-60 5.9 (gotta be under 6 haha), 27 mpg highway

-OR-

$24K, 0-60 mid to high 7's, 32+ mpg highway

I guess I just have to wait...

I had no respect for them and this just reaffirms why I do not like this company. I'm with Dilly-o, price, weight, and the most fishy of all is the MPG, I expect alot better than that.

And Matt - no way I would pay $24 for high 7's, that's pathetic. And I'm not thrilled with a 14.8 in the quarter either.

If the car cost 28,000 in the US it will cost 36,000 here in Puerto Rico! Because we have to pay import taxes wish i think its crazy, but thats how it work here :( so with that kind of money i could buy a 2011 WRX, not that i would buy one since i dont like the 2011 body. But i could, so yea if thats the price i would have think real hard about buying one.

You don't have income taxes tho, do you?

Good find.

Interesting 1st drives are starting to come through albeit for the prototype!

Looking forward to more. Soon I hope!

Notice the (Est) on every spec. Only a little over a month left to wait until we get real info but there really is zero chance in hell a 2800-2900lb 210hp $28,000 FT86 would sell.

Nop, just the import tax, which is almost dobble the amount of the Income tax

For me it sounds BS. Weight is 2600 lbs.

income tax in the states for me is just shy of 20% of what I make and that's only because I don't make crap. I'd much rather pay an import tax to get a car than income tax on everything I make. Sorry, offtopic!

Exactly my thoughts.

I believe Subaru on this one. Toyota is better at sports car styling than Subaru so it makes sense that Toyota did the styling and Subaru had to do everything else.

True statement is true. Nobody would buy this thing.

I love how they say it feels like a joint venture between Subaru and Lotus.

Yeah i call BS on this article too.

They have stated '210 bhp' in the stats table like its been confirmed or something and earlier in the article he says "The FB20 flat four is said to make "200-plus" horsepower, so figure about 210-220" :bs:

Also 2800lbs!? 1270kgs!?

No way..... the heaviest MX5 weights 1170kgs with the folding metal roof option... so a car of equal size without the weight of all that roof mechanics wont weight 100kgs more even if it does have two more seats!

$28,000? That cup holder better warm my coffee or chill my water. It should also be leather from only special cows, or some alligator skin that adapts to my back and massages me while I change the radio by blinking.

If it's that price then no thanks.

I've been lurking since the FR-S was revealed, finally decided to register after reading this article. I've got to say that them saying it's a trunk is a huge disappointment for me. I was really hoping for a liftback style for convenience purposes.

A few things I did like though: no sunroof, handling sounds great, body designed around the chassis.

Here's to hoping that it's a bit lighter than 2800lbs. Even 2700 would be good enough I think, though 2600 would be right on the money.

The price is not an issue for me, as long as the interior does not reflect a cheap car. To be honest, I'd prefer it being a bit more expensive than most are hoping for. It's attainable, but it will ward away some of the less desirable crowd from buying. Maybe I'm a selfish douche though.

I would really like to call BS on this. The thing that troubles me is the article has pictures of the BRZ that I haven't seen anywhere else on the internet, and believe me, I've been looking. My guess is this is a real article, but they don't have any of the details and made them up on their own. So, what we can take away from this is their driving impression "a collaboration between Subaru and Lotus", and that's music to my ears!

True that... True that. -_- Effing income tax...

Hellllllllll no if its gonna be $28k! Also seems like Subaru is just pissed off or the person who wrote that article is pissed off. One or the other.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Not a chance that I would buy a vehicle with those "estimated" stats from C&D. Also that article seemed out of characteristic for C&D. Since when do they say that a car already has more than enough horsepower? How can you say that for a car they think can't hit 60 in less than 6 seconds?

Very disappointing mpg estimates as well. (for reference the S2000's EPA rating was 20/25)

Every time a car magazines says anything about this car it makes me lose interest. Hopefully Subaru/Toyota is trying to pull a fast one, and just doing this to really wow us come Toyota. While it seems like a long shot, fingers crossed!:iono:

And all Lotus cars are joint ventures with Camry-by-the-billions Toyota, so..?

Have they personally driven the car to justify their logic of comparing it to a Lotus?

The logic being that Lotus makes excellent handling chassis (Subaru makes meh chassis that push like crazy and rely on AWD and turbo power to sort out retarded engine placement, since they rely on grip and torque for corner exits rather than momentum or any bit of finesse), and since Yamaha/Denso (ie Toyota) are responsible for all the important engine bits, it's almost like saying Lotus un-fucked the Subaru chassis and was helped with Toyota un-fucking the engine.

Anti-Toyota article, is all.


Matador, trolling?

(PS, I don't really hate Subaru. More of a reverse demonstration of how their analogy dis-respects Toyota. But the "We did it all!" attitude pisses me off.)

Here's what I think happened, Subaru was upset about the amount of press Toyota has been getting, so they "asked" ;) C&D to do a puff piece, saying how Subaru did all the work and the car is the best thing ever. And by asked I mean paid. You can tell from the tone of the article that it is not an honest review. It is just way too pro Subaru and pro BRZ.

I also suspect they might've thrown out those crappy numbers on purpose to "soften the blow" if the real numbers aren't what everyone is expecting. Now, if it is maybe 2600lbs and $24,000, C&D can say "wow, it is lighter and cheaper than we were expecting!" and people will think it's great.

Hmmm :thumbup: We can dream lol

I'm at work, so I can't see the article. Who is it by?

Couple things:

1) Pro BRZ = Pro FR-S. Toyota and Subaru officials have said that they are same aside from some minor details. So, if the article says that the BRZ drives well, then the article says that the FR-S drives well. The fact that the author mentioned Lotus in the same sentence with the BRZ gives me hope.

2) Subaru has been showing technology concepts while Toyota has been showing styling concepts, so why is it so difficult to believe that Subaru took the lead on the chassis development? Doesn't the car use a flat-four engine? Isn't that Subaru's signature architecture? Sure, the engine incorporates Toyota's new DI system, but developing a DI system is not equivalent to doing all of the engineering work. Let's be reasonable.



Please note: I have no loyalty to either brand, and frankly, I probably wouldn't give Toyota or Subaru a second thought if it weren't for the FT-86.

Thanks Mata-ice for the article! :happy0180:

I'm still taking it with a grain of salt. I smell a battle between two huge corporations wanting their cake and eating it to. Not 50-50 but rather 70-30 driven.

Ok so it's not a hatch but rather a "notchback", push start, 210-220 peaking at 6500k with a 1K of dropoff , 2800 lbs and a base of 28K. Not in this economy Hirakawa-san! :thumbdown:

this thread makes me sad

even if the car handles great, it needs to do all that at a price point. and 28k is not it. especially at that level.

What a joke.

The cupholder warmer sounds like a great mod...I might try it.

Also why does the article say "December 2011" In the bottom right hand corner....we're still in October and when December rolls around printing this article would be kinda dumb considering the real car and specs will be out....:iono:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodical_cover_date

In the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom, the standard practice is to display on magazine covers a date which is some weeks or months in the future from the actual publishing/release date. There are two reasons for this discrepancy: first, to allow magazines to continue appearing "current" to consumers even after they have been on sale for some time (since not all magazines will be sold immediately), and second, to inform newsstands when an unsold magazine can be removed from the stands and returned to the publisher or be destroyed (in this case, the cover date is also the pull date).

ROFL! Americans complaining about income tax... oh my god. Try living in Canada. We pay 30 to 40%. If you make more than 100k it's 40% income tax minimum, significantly higher in some provinces.

FR-S/BRZ will be a little more expensive here too likely.

Epic-fail: If you live in the province of Quebec, every dollar you make over $83000 is taxed at 53%. I'm not kidding.

We pay about the same in taxes here in America. If you make 25,000 a year they take 23.5%, if you make 100,000 they will take 40%.