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Hachiroku 10-28-2011 11:19 AM

Autocar's Toyota FT-86 / Scion FR-S First Drive Review
 
1 Attachment(s)
Seems that a press embargo on FT-86 prototype drive reviews has been lifted today. First it was CAR Magazine's review, and now Autocar comes in with their own.

Quote:

Toyota FT-86 2.0 First Drive

Test date Friday, October 28, 2011

Price as tested £20,000

What is it?

We’ve been waiting a long time for the Toyota FT-86. Literally, because we’ve seen a lot of the concept. But figuratively, too: Toyota is promising the FT-86 will deliver a return to sports car purity that is driven by feel and intuition, not lap times and lateral grip levels. We’ve wanted a car like that for a long while.

“Sports cars have gotten boring,” Toyota says. “They’re only interested in going fast.” The FT-86 is meant to amend that, to bring speeds down but take the enjoyment up, not unlike the Caterham 7 Supersport which we’ve fallen for recently.

The FT-86 is on a new platform that has been co-developed with Subaru (whose Subaru BRZ will be distinctly similar). We still don’t have all the technical details because it’s some way from launch – sales start in June 2012, following the production car’s unveiling at the end of November 2011.

What I can tell you is that it’s “as small as possible for a four-seater sports car,” which means it weighs 1280kg. It has a 2.0-litre flat-four petrol engine in the front, naturally aspirated, which is supplied by Subaru but gets Toyota’s D4-S direct injection system. It makes 197bhp.

The key things to add are these: it drives the rear wheels through a six-speed manual gearbox and a Torsen limited-slip differential. And the tyres are the same modest 215/45 R17 items you’ll find on a Toyota Prius.

Oh, and the ESP can be completely switched off.

What’s it like?

As much fun as you’d hope. I drove a disguised car on a deserted airfield last May (wasn’t supposed to be able to tell you about it until the end of November, but recent revelations have brought that forward a bit ), and it still makes me smile to think about it now.

First impressions: it feels light and compact, a bit like an MX-5. The driving position is low, straight and snug, with grippy front seats (and not a lot of room in the back).

The Toyota FT-86 feels quick enough, too, with a precise if a touch notchy gearchange, and an engine note that’s a bit growly – there’s not much flat-four burble. Tweaking the NVH is high on Toyota’s ‘to-do’ list. It has a broad power curve - it revs to 7500 but there’s no desperate need to wind it that far past the mid-range.

It’s hard to accurately guage the ride on a concrete airfield, but the FT-86 feels quite deftly set-up, light on its feet, with a touch of tyre roar that’s to be expected.

It steers easily too. At 2.5 turns lock-to-lock the steering’s quick without being hyperactive, and is light-to-middling in weight. It all adds to the impression that this is going to be an easy car to get along with.

Find a corner and you’ll find some roll, but its rate is well contained. The FT-86’s weight distribution is 53/47 per cent front/rear, so it’ll nudge into steady-state understeer if you’re on a constant throttle, where it grips moderately well and is pleasingly poised.

The great thing about the FT-86 though is, as promised, it really handles. It lets you choose how you want to corner. Add any amount of power and it’ll turn at least neutral. Trail the brakes into a bend, give a mid-corner throttle-lift or, well, just give the steering a bit of a bung and lots of throttle and it’ll either straighten its line or give you armfuls of oversteer, utterly as you prefer.

There’s still a bit of tweaking to do on the damping, but it’s 90 per cent of the way there. As it is, in third gear the FT-86 will run out of power to keep a long slide going (if you like that sort of thing), so inevitably it takes momentum rather than power to play games with the chassis. But if you add more power to compensate then you’ll want a turbo and bigger stoppers too, and that adds weight, and, well – that’s where the downward spiral starts, right?

“The key development for the FT-86 is that it’s a front-engined, rear-drive car with intuitive handling,” says Toyota.

“A fun car is a car you can control. We rejected the idea of a car developed using numbers. It must have front-engine/rear-drive, a naturally-aspirated engine and a low centre of gravity.”

Should I buy one?

I suspect those who do won’t regret it. The Toyota FT-86 will need a change in attitude: this car’s not about delivering ultimate acceleration or lap times, it’s just about having fun.

The FT-86’s modest limits and power mean that it should prove enjoyable on the road: you’ll be able to get more out of it, more often, than you could a much faster and more theoretically capable sports car, whose reward is more often than not limited by visibility and sensibility.

It’d be terrific fun on a track day, too. It’s light enough to not wear out its consumables quickly and, while an FT-86 wouldn’t be the fastest way around a circuit, there aren’t too many cars out there – certainly not at its predicted £20k-odd price tag – that could put a bigger smile on their driver’s face.

Matt Prior

Price: 20,000 (est); Top speed: n/a; 0-62mph: n/a; Economy: n/a; Co2: n/a; Kerbweight: 1280kg; Engine type: 2.0-litre, four-cylinder petrol; Power: 197bhp; Torque: n/a; Gearbox: six-speed manual

Attachment 2365

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/...-drive/259779/

VenomRush 10-28-2011 11:29 AM

the other one says 25k, this one says 20k. i like this one =D

rL-gT 10-28-2011 11:31 AM

Thank you FT86club for putting a smile on my face so early in the morning!

Hachiroku 10-28-2011 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VenomRush (Post 67217)
the other one says 25k, this one says 20k. i like this one =D


:laughabove::clap:

Though it'd be nice if the £ was a $ instead :)

ft86Fan 10-28-2011 11:36 AM

Wow. This is great. Keep the news coming!

keiri 10-28-2011 11:37 AM

These reviews are really getting my blood pumping with excitement; although this one put a bit of a damper with the 1280kg (~2800lb) curb weight - hopefully he was including his 80kg personal weight.

Either way both Autocar and Car magazine have me believing what Moto was saying earlier this summer: Toyota has returned and in a big way.

MannyO 10-28-2011 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ft86Fan (Post 67222)
Wow. This is great. Keep the news coming!

:word::thanks: Thanks for the email updates Hachi! :thumbsup:

themish 10-28-2011 11:40 AM

2750 lb test mule...that doesnt bode well.

speed-wiz 10-28-2011 11:48 AM

The more I learn about this car, the more sure I am that I want it ... small disappointments here and there, yes, but nothing major.

Rush_Z 10-28-2011 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hachiroku (Post 67221)
:laughabove::clap:

Though it'd be nice if the £ was a $ instead :)

Totally agree

kaivo 10-28-2011 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scion FRS (Post 67233)
:thumbdown: Not enough

price is too low for u ?:)

nickatdunning 10-28-2011 12:05 PM

Cars usually are more expensive in Europe though, rIght?

no_name 10-28-2011 12:05 PM

So one review says 25k vs 20k and the other says 1200kg vs 1280kg. I'll take one with the lowest of both of those numbers please. And this review says the SC can actually be turned off. WOO!

zigzagz94 10-28-2011 12:11 PM

I've intentionally stayed out of the recent styling debates over the leaked exterior/interior photos as those are the most subjective parts of the car than can easily be modified to the users taste.

These driving impressions are what I've really been waiting for.

All indications are that the early prototypes are awesome (better than a miata even).

Toyobaru will be making constant improvements utilizing all of their recent track data and this baby will only get better right up until launch.

I'm super excited for this car again. Thank you Toyota and Subaru.

aloretoc 10-28-2011 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no_name (Post 67243)
So one review says 25k vs 20k and the other says 1200kg vs 1280kg. I'll take one with the lowest of both of those numbers please. And this review says the SC can actually be turned off. WOO!

The other review says "about 1200 kg" so they are estimating... This one instead sounds more like it's a fact... 1280 kg

DC87 10-28-2011 12:16 PM

"I drove a disguised car on a deserted airfield last May (wasn’t supposed to be able to tell you about it until the end of November, but recent revelations have brought that forward a bit)..."

Two points to make about this. Firstly, the fact the drive was in May means that Toyota have had months of extra tweaking - if it was good then think how good it will be now. Secondly, the fact that they've brought the embargo forward thanks to the leaked images lends weight to the fact that they are accurate, surely? Or are Toyota just riding the wave of publicity that the leak has created?

ft86Fan 10-28-2011 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC87 (Post 67249)
Secondly, the fact that they've brought the embargo forward thanks to the leaked images lends weight to the fact that they are accurate, surely? Or are Toyota just riding the wave of publicity that the leak has created?

Sometimes I wonder how these "leaks" started in the first place :rolleyes:

lancie 10-28-2011 12:46 PM

1280 kg???mmm....the "opponent" vw scirocco weight 1300kg!!

DC87 10-28-2011 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ft86Fan (Post 67266)
Sometimes I wonder how these "leaks" started in the first place :rolleyes:

haha yeah I wondered the same thing, its hardly been a negative thing for them , they've conquered the automotive web for free these past few days! Must be loving it :thumbup:

Neutral_Eyes 10-28-2011 01:08 PM

I can see it comparing favorably to the NC in magazines, but once the ND drops they better have something up their sleeve.

ft86Fan 10-28-2011 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutral_Eyes (Post 67281)
I can see it comparing favorably to the NC in magazines, but once the ND drops they better have something up their sleeve.

If you think following and waiting for the FT-86 wasn't painful enough, then try following the ND. I believe now they are saying that it won't come out until 2015.

Dragonitti 10-28-2011 01:27 PM

1280kg = 2800lbs. Pretty sure I called that in during the GR VLN car thread. Now who was it that was doubting me again?

n2oinferno 10-28-2011 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutral_Eyes (Post 67281)
I can see it comparing favorably to the NC in magazines, but once the ND drops they better have something up their sleeve.

I agree with this, but the news still has me excited. Pretty much exactly what I want is a hardtop 2+2 Miata. I'd just get the Miata, but I need that rear seat for the baby. I do think that if these numbers are true, that they really need to keep the starting price nearer 20k than 25k.

Now seeing the MX5 Spyder coming up for SEMA, that's awesome too.. Too bad it'll never see production, but if some of that goes into the ND...

madfast 10-28-2011 01:57 PM

2800 lbs is disgustingly heavy considering the Veloster weighs less than 2600...

iff2mastamatt 10-28-2011 02:00 PM

2800 isn't too bad. If you're really concerned about weight, strip our the rear seats, replace the front one dump and the spare. That should easily save 100 lbs if not more. I'm just surprised that this thing might get 37 mpg...

madfast 10-28-2011 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iff2mastamatt (Post 67323)
2800 isn't too bad. If you're really concerned about weight, strip our the rear seats, replace the front one dump and the spare. That should easily save 100 lbs if not more. I'm just surprised that this thing might get 37 mpg...

but you could still do that on a 2600 lbs car :thumbsup:

Giccin 10-28-2011 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iff2mastamatt (Post 67323)
I'm just surprised that this thing might get 37 mpg...

Yesssssssssss. LOL. Eco + fun to drive car. Win. :)

HiGh GrAvltY 10-28-2011 02:13 PM

I love my Celica but can not wait to pick up this car!

Marrk 10-28-2011 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madfast (Post 67321)
2800 lbs is disgustingly heavy considering the Veloster weighs less than 2600...


I'm disappointed, too. A lot can be forgiven, as long as we are talking about light weight + rwd + low MSRP, but 2800 ain't light.

Neutral_Eyes 10-28-2011 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madfast (Post 67321)
2800 lbs is disgustingly heavy considering the Veloster weighs less than 2600...

It also only has 138HP and is FWD. Just like the Accent, which is even lighter. :iono:

Aki 10-28-2011 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragonitti (Post 67297)
1280kg = 2800lbs. Pretty sure I called that in during the GR VLN car thread. Now who was it that was doubting me again?

Highly doubt those are official figures, they look like the mag's estimate. No way they'd give some random UK mag exclusive spec info. Marketing is very deliberate about timing the release of specs. I'd take it with a grain of salt until it's made official.

Hachiroku 10-28-2011 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aki (Post 67348)
Highly doubt those are official figures, they look like the mag's estimate. No way they'd give some random UK mag exclusive spec info. Marketing is very deliberate about timing the release of specs. I'd take it with a grain of salt until it's made official.

+1

If these guys weren't even allowed to get a peek at the dashboard, then there's no way they were given official stats/specs yet.

balance 10-28-2011 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aki (Post 67348)
Highly doubt those are official figures, they look like the mag's estimate. No way they'd give some random UK mag exclusive spec info. Marketing is very deliberate about timing the release of specs. I'd take it with a grain of salt until it's made official.

+2, I just find it somewhat difficult to rationalize +300 lbs over the MX-5's weight considering the similar dimension of these cars and that convertibles are generally heavier.

Snoopyalien24 10-28-2011 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madfast (Post 67321)
2800 lbs is disgustingly heavy considering the Veloster weighs less than 2600...

Thats not that bad. Veloster is FWD btw.

Anyways woo, I was in between a 240sx or this 2,762.4 lbs vs 2,800?
November 30th, can't you come faster?? :sigh:

RRnold 10-28-2011 02:40 PM

Thanks for sharing Hachi!


The other article mentioned an R version. If this is true, good things come to those who wait! :thumbsup:

Turbocharging the flat-four would be straightforward (after all, that’s what Subaru does with the Impreza), but chief engineer Tetsuya Tada told us that he ‘doesn’t like turbos’ and has ‘decided to reject the numeric power war’. He also said that an R version of the FT-86 was coming with less weight, Brembo brakes (our test car’s stoppers were from Hitachi), a rollcage, a larger rear wing, no rear seats and, yes, a mechanical LSD but no more power.

And bear in mind that Toyota had invited us for our input and that this was a fairly early car – things will be tweaked for production. Our cars were still disguised, although pictures of the FT-86 production car have leaked out in recent days.

Other options are also on the cards: a convertible is ‘possible’, while an auto gearbox is confirmed – it’s a six-speed unit based on the eight-speeder in the high-performance Lexus ISF.


Aki 10-28-2011 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRnold (Post 67357)
Thanks for sharing Hachi!


The other article mentioned an R version. If this is true, good things come to those who wait! :thumbsup:[/I]

It's going to be hard, but I'm going to wait for an R version to come out. Although, I'm not serious enough to want a rollcage.

madfast 10-28-2011 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neutral_Eyes (Post 67340)
It also only has 138HP and is FWD. Just like the Accent, which is even lighter. :iono:

the turbo veloster is on its way and there is no way adding a turbo will add 200 lbs... i just dont want this car to be another miata. the miata had light weight but low power. now this car will have power but not very light weight?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoopyalien24 (Post 67353)
Thats not that bad. Veloster is FWD btw

the veloster is FWD but its a hatch with all that glass in the back, and the necessary structural support that goes with that. also the veloster comes with plenty of standard features including a 7" touchscreen and 17" wheels. i would expect a cheaply appointed coupe to at least match this weight. or even go over a little. but 200 lbs more? that's a lot imo...

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRnold (Post 67357)
Thanks for sharing Hachi!


The other article mentioned an R version. If this is true, good things come to those who wait! :thumbsup:

there is absolutely no way the US will get this car. i just dont see it. as long as the brembos and the LSD are available, i can see a market for them over here, like back in the day when honda Type R parts were very sought after in our market...

cyde01 10-28-2011 02:51 PM

i gotta admit i am disappointed if the 1280 kg is true. all the rumors of 1150 kg got me all excited, but i guess that was wishful thinking. i don't like turbos either but i kinda wish the R version had a turbo just to make the HP crowd stop complaining.

WolfpackS2k 10-28-2011 02:52 PM

To clarify, nobody in those magazine reviews said this car would get 37 mpg US. That's an imperial mpg figure. Can't you people figure that out by now:bonk:

If the curb weight really is 2800lbs I am very disappointed. 200 hp + 2800 lbs is boring to me. There better be a TRD forced induction option on the horizon. Removing the rear seats, spare tire (no doubt a tiny donut) and swapping the front seats for some Recaros will not reduce 100lbs of weight. Keep dreaming.

This is not good news to me :(


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