Article on Drive.com.au
 

Engine problems for Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ

Rough idle and stalling complaints plague joint venture Japanese affordable sports coupes.


The Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ may be two of the most desirable cars on the market, but some owners claim to be experiencing engine issues with the sporty Japanese twin coupes.

A report from Automotive News states the Toyota and Subaru two-doors – which were co-developed and are powered by the same 2.0-litre ‘boxer’ engine – are experiencing rough engine idle symptoms and occasional stalling.

According to the article, Subaru and Toyota representatives have stated the issue is related to a software problem. It states the car’s ECU (engine control unit) is an adaptive computer that picks up on how the owner drives the car in the first 100 miles (161 kilometres), and sets the engine to perform accordingly. The ECU may then pick up if the car is being driven outside of these tolerances, and send an error code, causing the engine to idle roughly or stall.

Toyota says the problem is not mechanical, and that the ECU’s software will need to be re-mapped (or “re-flashed” in car jargon) if it has less than 100 miles on the clock. It says that if the odometer reading is higher, the ECU should be replaced.

More: The Toyota 86
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Automotive News quotes Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons as saying: “It does involve the variable valve timing, but it does not involve a mechanical repair.”

Subaru, however, claims the fix is not dependent on how far the car has been driven – instead, it claims the ECU simply needs to be re-flashed.

More: The Subaru BRZ
“This is not a mileage-dependent condition,” Subaru spokesman Dominick Infante is quoted as saying. “No replacement of the ECU is needed at any mileage to rectify the issue. The ECU re-flash is the fix. There is not a defect concerning the ECU.”

Drive is still awaiting a response from Toyota Australia and Subaru Australia.

International enthusiast sites such as FT86club.com are openly discussing the problem, with more than 100 registered complaints about rough idle issues including one forum member who says their car has been “in the shop” for three weeks with parts including the engine’s oil control valve and variable valve timing cam gear requiring replacement. In a number of cases, those who have complained and had their ECU re-flashed have stated the rough-idle problem is still occurring.

Australian owners have also taken to the internet to discuss the engine problem. The ************* forum has a thread dedicated to the problem, with several users explaining how their cars have been affected.

“Well in my case if the car sits idle for 1-2 minutes it is likely to conk out and you can feel the car shaking,” writes user tisb0b. “This can usually be negated to an extent by having my foot on the accelerator and brake at the same time keeping it around 1.5k rpms [sic].”

“For me it happens intermittently, mostly shortly after the car is in neutral, idling,” writes forum user keen as. “It is very rough idling, revs varying 100-400, coughing (mis-firing [sic]), car shaking (embarassing [sic] at the lights), stalled once. The engine smooths with light throttle pressure to keep around 1.5k rpms [sic]. If I didn't do this to smooth the engine, I guess the CEL [Check Engine Light] will come back on again.”

Another, apparently unrelated issue raised by some BRZ and 86 owners is that of a “chirping” sound from the car’s fuel pump. Described as similar to the sound of a cricket, the sound is reported to start occurring once the car reaches 300 miles (482km), and while it is not considered problematic, several users on the **************.com site have indicated they are opting for a fix at their dealership.

Cutting and pasting an entire article is poor form.

Not linking to the original is inexcusable.

Link is here to Original :thumbsup:

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/e...010-27cbu.html

Ooooopppps, brand T & S ain't gunna like that !!!

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/motor...010-27cbu.html

Does this mean we shouldn't baby the car the first 100 miles since babying the car is not how I normally 'drive the car'?

LOL! I floored it for the first 160ks LOL!

The car is still good! :D *Touch wood*

Toyota says the problem is not mechanical, and that the ECU’s software will need to be re-mapped (or “re-flashed” in car jargon) if it has less than 100 miles on the clock. It says that if the odometer reading is higher, the ECU should be replaced.

More: The Toyota 86
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Automotive News quotes Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons as saying: “It does involve the variable valve timing, but it does not involve a mechanical repair.”

Subaru, however, claims the fix is not dependent on how far the car has been driven – instead, it claims the ECU simply needs to be re-flashed.



OK so which statement is correct, toy says or subi says.

Baby run in. No way. Gradually thrashing it works for me.

Agree with forgetting to past the link to the site my bad there :bonk:

In regards to pasting the article that's your opinion i do not see what is so bad about keeping people on the current site that they were visiting in the first place without redirecting them to another one :thumbup:

I think they meant to say the ECU sets performance parameters according to the last 100 miles, not the first 100 miles.

i wouldnt say its plagued me, its happened once, and havnt been able to reproduce

How many k's your car done & how did you run it in (assume very well) & do you have this problem?? The answer to this problem could be to drive it hard from delivery . . . !

Seems awfully fukd that a learning computer quickly determines the future outcome of a car's drive-ability and not follow a set program for life ! Geeeeeee . . .

Agreed that the original link should have been included, but that particular line makes no sense.

The article doesn't take up much space at all and absolutely no one is going to get it confused with original content by the OP.

Cut him some slack...

That makes much more sense, but I reckon the computer should grow a brain & not cause issues that many have experienced . . .

Arghh factory ecu updates versus custom reflashes will not be fun.

1st 100km's i quite redlined it a few times...

Im a lead foot ... I pretty much have been driving it as I normally would. Hard.

At 1400kms in 2 weeks.

F*cken love it.

By the way I had 22km's on my car when i picked it up ... the average fuel consumption was 22L/100 when i picked it up...

funnily enough, i drive it hard and im averaging 10-11L/100

So only explanation is the 1st 22km's of my car was thrashed hard. So I guess toyota/dealership ran it hard for me. :thumbsup:

LMFAO . . . what's the tread depth on your rear tyres then ? :bellyroll:

So I assume you don't have the idle/cut out problem? This is good !

PS: Remember ppl's - one of the cars main parameters / traits is to be driven sideways, just be mindful of any nearby trees or poles . . .

no idle problems... pulled a 2nd on a bend... sideways... Couldnt wipe the smile off my face...
:)

who cares about the tyres... will just put another cheap set on for fun.

Now. got to search for that U.S thread about created a switch to turn all nannies off with 1 flick. rather than the press and hold crap.

@ZZT86 - In the same boat as @st162celica
I drove mine hard right from teh get go, no issues at all :)
As I said in a another thread, the biggest issues I have had are a couple of little rattles ;)

it was made to be driven hard...

revs down low dont excite...

Was the same as my 3sge celica. fun but get it between 5-7k and the real fun begins.

I love pushing cars to their limits rather than have to ease off cause theres too much power.... i dont know. Thats just me

Got 10000km's nearly and most of my driving after 1000km has been hard.. and I have to admit those issues occurred once during a night going home.. engine was cold.. never came around again.

Any idea what batch that are effected? I got a June build with 12,000kms and no issues so far. But then again with in 24 hrs of owning it I was doing Putty Road.....I did stick between 3-6k rpm.

According to the detail from the very original article, anything delivered after mid-August should have no issues. See :http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...-sporty-coupes

Time will tell if the brain of this ECU has other ideas ! Till then :burnrubber:

I took delivery of my BRZ today. 8 kms on the car on pickup. Got through 3 sets of lights before the idle started feeling a bit rough (~500 rpm). Got through another 3 sets of lights before I had the CEL flashed at me (15 km!)... Called the dealer, they had no idea what was going on, ended up dropping it off for them to look at it. :bs:

The copy paste journalism annoys me.

The original article is based on comments from Subaru and Toyota in North America. The reason this is important is that US regulations are far more relaxed than EU/ADR certification ...

Should've held my tongue..
Only tonyt cruise control light turned yellow and won't turn off..malfunction in cruise control..Speedo doesn't work as well.. it accelerates and stays on 0.. after going in 2nd gear the Speedo starts to slowly climb.. no cel nothing..

Why? It's there for yours/everyones benefit !

With regard to the ECU re-map I would have thought this applies worldwide regardless of region or regulation ! It's happening here aswell as in the US.

There are several issues to be rectified with this car, that's just one. It's unforgivable that a new car have so many mechanical/electrical/construction issues right from the get-go, really.

Rep mate, thats disappointing. I would have been gutted if that happened to me. Hope it is sorted soon :happy0180:

I'm saying that the author has good copy & paste skills. All but one paragraph are inline with the Auto News article. Didn't even wait for quotes from Toyota or Subaru in Australia ...

No. It has not yet happened in Australia.
Each country has different regulations. Australia is definitely one market which requires government approval for software changes, which always takes more time than countries like the US, where no approval process is required.

What have you had go wrong?

Yes it's a cutnpaste because the issues over there are also happening here ! The 1st post on this page is about a local brand spanking new BRZ with this problem and there have been numerous others experiencing same. All cars are built on the same production line and use virtually identical parts for all countries.

A quick look through the US section will outline the outpouring of frustration with regard to all the issues the car has given them thus far, some supposedly resolved with Toyota/Subaru releasing TSB's for these. TMCA have also released TSB's for this car !

IE: water in tailights, backfiring, rough idle/revs & extremely noisy HPFP are not acceptable in this day & age. :(

Looks like I have jinx myself got a rough idle today with the A/C on.

Can you tell me what toyota is doing for you guys when you bring the car in?
are they giving you a loan car free of charge till its fixed or what?
see what SCION is doing for its customers? and they are only paying 25k for their car..
we are paying 40k, so i am hoping toyota are giving you free camrys or something.

Being the Author of the post this was pasted from the Australian site drive.com.au was done for easy benefit for everyone here if you are referring to the Author of the article on Drive's website then ok

why so much hate for providing information that may relate to your vehicle or others on here. I do not see what is so bad with trying to help other people out if that is a crime then shoot me :suicide:

The dealer MUST give you a loaner free of charge until your car is returned back to you. It's the least Toyota can do, if the dealer complains then threaten to contact TMCA / Tech Division. The loaner needs to be as close to the owners car as possible. It's ALL covered by TMCA warranty.

As the saying goes - "You fuck it, you fix it" ;)

Thank you. Every article a see is just referencing the auto news article Marc wrote. I was hoping when I sent the emails to all the publications everyone would do their own research on the issue and in turn help nag Toyota and Subaru for us.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Yeah, who woudl ahve thought that a mass produced car would ever have some problems?? It is a mass produced item. Shit will go wrong.
But ym car, and many others, have not had any issues. let's not blwo thigns out of proportion

Yes I know & I agree, it happens to even the best car makers. But don't get me wrong, I LUV Toyota & Subaru products & can highly recommend them to anyone. I have driven them for long enough to know what to expect, it's just that the quality control on this car surprises me a little.

If you've ever had any involvement in QA type work you'd know that whenever you release a GEN1 product there's always an element of "Suck it and see" and very rarely will it be released with 0 issues (and if it does, that's good fortune rather than good planning.)

QA will never be foolproof as you dont output that many examples to determine bugs with vs when you go to the masses (its not cost viable.)

Furthermore... this is a 30-40K car... in effect you're buying towards the bottom of the food chain (despite the 86's current hero status) its not a 200K Merc/Audi/Beamer

And lastly... the amount of confirmed/suspected cases vs the overall scheme of things.. i would as a finger in the wind guess say is well under 5% of cars in the market.

I'm curious as to how this is a major failing on toyota/subaru... its just sensationalist journalism because of the publicity the 86 has had they know it will attract attention > Readers > advertising $$'s

:word:

^^^^

Great post would have to agree with you there especially the last point :respekt:

OK ! Yes journalists love a good story, even made up ones, but the stories I'm reading about are the ones submitted by owner/enthusiasts.

I hope you're 100% right pal cos this is a great car regardless, especially for the coin. My thinking is that people should be aware of what's going on, that's all.