86/BRZ/FR-S Bolt In Roll Bar by Alex Pfeiffer-Battleversion
 

Battleversion bolt in roll bars are in stock and ready to ship. He has two ready to go right away. I have one in my BRZ and fit is great!

These are fully TIG welded made in California by Alex Pfeiffer. He can custom make the bar to any specification you need but this particular bar he has ready-made will work great for most street/track cars that are looking for something fully bolt-in without any permanent modifications to the car.

1.5" OD .120" Wall DOM Tubing
Fully TIG Welded
Rear bases bolt to factory shock bolt locations, no drilling required
Front bases made to fit over carpet, no cutting the carpet. Can also be bolted below carpet if desired.
Harness bar is set back to allow for full travel on drivers side for taller drivers.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

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Want.

I've been thinking of gutting and carpeting the back anyways. This would be some good justification. Haha.

How much does this weight?

48 LBS in 0.120" wall as seen in my car.

Can be done in 0.095" wall to save a few LBS if wanted, can also be done without the cross bar and/or harness bar.

Car still ended up lighter than stock on the scales because of the removed back seats, spare tire and tools.

Looks good! Any chance the main hoop can get closer to the roofline? Obviously bolt-in units have some limitations, but the closer the better. Do you know if this bar is compliant with SCCA Solo 1 (Time trial/hillclimb) rules?

It's difficult to see in the pictures but the main hoop is touching the headliner in my car because I'm still running the carpeting. It can be made taller but you'd have to either remove the headliner or the carpeting for it to fit.

Don't know about the SCCA Solo 1 rules but you're welcome to email them these pics and ask, let me know if you need any more pictures either in or out of the car. Alex can always build you something more specific to your needs now that he has the basic configuration for the car, feel free to PM me or contact him direct with any questions.

Alex is planning to have a display bolt-in roll bar at the 86Fest meet in Fontana this Sunday 10/7/12 if anyone wants to check it out in person. My car will be there as well as at Subiefest in Pomona on Saturday 10/6/12.

price?

Also any pics of where it touches the floor behind the seats? can it be bolted down there if done under the carpet? Is that even needed?

Sorry, don't know a whole lot about roll bars.

To begin, the rules say the bars must be 1.75" in diameter.
This one is only 1.5"

$850 in the configuration seen in my car. It can be made for less if you leave out things like the cross bar, harness bar, quick connect couplers, etc..
You can also add things like rear strut bar, X-Brace, etc.. as needed.

I didn't take any pictures of the bases behind the seats, they are square plates with three holes that lay flat on a flat portion of the floor pan. In my car they're on top of the carpet but some people will choose to trim or fold back the carpeting and lay the bases directly on the floor which will work just as well. It all depends on your preference, most people like the fact that it's easily removable and can easily be put back to stock if you ever decide to sell the car.

I remember there being something in the rules about the "weight class" of the vehicle, IIRC anything under 3000 LBS or 2800 LBS can be 1.5" DOM 0.120" and over 3000 LBS needs to be 1.75" ERW 0.120" or DOM 0.095". Don't quote me though since it's been ages since I've looked over SCCA rules.

For the majority of street/autocross track cars that this bar is aimed towards 1.75" would be overkill, too bulky and too heavy. If your racing class requires this, it can be done no problem but I'm pretty sure at that point you'd want more of a permanent weld in bar/cage.

did you need to remove the rear seats, or did you just choose to?

Is this even safe?

what is the purpose of this bar?

I chose to leave out the rear seats, spare and foam/tools.
The rear bench, and spare fit right in.
The foam pieces that hold the tools and carpeting would have to be trimmed similar to when you install a rear strut brace.
The rear seat back rest can be left folded down, it would need to be trimmed along the sides to clear the bars if you want passengers to ride in the back. You could always remove just the rear portion or the whole bar in 10-20 minutes if needed.

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Main purpose of a roll bar is to protect in case of a rollover or accident.
It also provides a safe place to mount harnesses, it can be argued that running a harness or even a fixed back bucket seat without a roll bar with harness bar is unsafe.
Another benefit is the added stiffness/rigidity provided, the car feels more solid around turns. I used to hear the "rear deck popping noise" before the bar went in, now it's gone. This leads me to believe that there is less flex in the chassis.

Wikipedia: Roll Bar/Cage
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_cage

I'd be interested to see how this looks with most of the interior still intact, and to see how this sits behind the seats. Does the forward bar/plate just rest on the carpet? If so, wouldn't that mean the entire thing is only held in by the four bolts in the very back of the car?
How long does it take to put in and take out? Do the rear seats have to be removed to install it? Obviously the foam and carpet in the back would have to be trimmed the first time, and likely removed to install this "cage" but does anything else have to be REMOVED to install this?

It can also be easily argued that running one WITHOUT harnesses and a fixed back seat is just as dangerous.

Rear strut mounts.. not sure I trust that when the weight will be distributed on those very small extensions to the strut top. Not a fan of using the strut mounts anyways.

I assume there are backing plates included? Pics?

For that insane price (for a 4 point) the cross bar should have a short bar added between it and the harness bar, and some harness guides wouldn't be a bad idea.. not needed but it never hurts as an option.

Holes will be drilled in the floor pan for the main hoop also. If not then this is more like a Cusco death cage than anything else.

The Blue AE Performance Scion FR-S is running the same bar and they kept the back seat in place. I don't have any pictures of that car other than these two:

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It gets bolted through the floor using three bolts per side, total of six bolts going to plates that mount from under the car.

20 Minutes, pull out two front seats, undo 10 nuts/bolts, undo quick connect couplers and slide the bar out the front.

No, rear seat can be left in place.

That's all, just the foam and carpet.



I'm not here to argue different theories on safety. Those topics have been beaten to death. It's up to each person to decide what they're comfortable with for their own car.

The force is spread evenly across the plate to the floor, the nuts are only there to keep the bar from moving/rattling. He can always make a larger plate for you if you like, but this is more than sufficient for the purpose of this bar. This location was specifically chosen because it's the most structurally sound placement.

Both of those options can be added. He also does one with a straight harness bar, that isn't swept back for those that don't care about the loss of drivers side leg room.

Yes, total of six bolts for the main hoop with plates from underneath the car.

Agreed, but it's something that should be noted by anyone selling bars/cages IMO. Some groups (including the events I run, which may include an 86 Expo next year) will NOT let you on track with that setup. So I think it's a fair item to mention to people interested in this bar. :thumbup:

Proof? I'm going to ask some engineer friends (some of whom have built cages that have been tested (unfortunately)). To me, that strikes me as a compromise location to avoid drilling in the back. I've seen it before but have yet to see one tested in a rollover. I'm likely a little more agressive on avoiding compromises with safety equipment than the majority here though.

:thumbup: that little bar should be standard though :)

I'm definitely interested in bar/cage development for this car, even though it won't become more than just a light usage DE car (ie 6 events a year or so) for years :)

this is a good looking style bar. And probably an effective mount for harnesses if you are looking for one. And I do get the idea was to have something that bolted to existing holes without hacking up the chassis.

For people that are looking for a safety upgrade, here are a couple things missing in this design that would prevent it from passing a safety inspection for any track day org that evaluates safety equipment.

1. The rear bars are multi piece.
2. rear mounting location: rollbars transfer weight into what they are mounted on. The rear mounts are secured adjacent to the shock towers, but the mounting plate only holds it in place - It's not positioned in a way that would transfer force into a substantially reinforced portion of the chassis. It would transfer force into that hollow stamped steel piece the bar sits above. Best case the bar would twist and deform the mounting plate. worse case it would tear it.
3. I haven't seen the front mounting location, but unless it bolts to something like the frame rail, it would provide no protection in a roll over. There is a video on youtube of a mustang that bolted a rolbar to the floorpan and not a secure chassis mount. In the roll over, the bars just pushed through the thin metal of the floor pan and the rollbar ended up at shoulder height in the cabin. A backing plate won't change that.

In general I agree.. but..

1. I've never seen a bolt in bar that wasn't setup like that. Very difficult not to have a joint, but those joints are VERY strong and have been used with success before. The tube over tube joint method works too.

2. Could not agree more! And everyone else I've talked to and shown pics to agrees also. Two bolts only which aren't designed to withstand a ton of shearing force, combined with that raised stamped steel which will rip off the main body with enough force and the minimal and offset mounting arms.....

3. With a proper mounting plate that should not happen. Backing plates are to prevent the reverse from happening. Sheet metal in the floor pan is fairly thin that's why it needs to have the load spread out over a large enough mounting plate. Certainly it's possible, but most real cage designs won't do much more than welded on mounting plates or boxes.

this needs to be real world tested

Thanks for your opinions Dave and Matt.

I think we can all agree it's difficult to please everyone. There will always be those that want a true race cage and are willing to make the sacrifices associated with that. In fact Alex will be building a full race cage in a dedicated FR-S race car soon that will see professional race duty.
Some won't appreciate the added value in a made in USA, TIG welded bar with $100+ quick connect couplers, for those something like an Autopower bar may be good enough.
There are also those that just want a pure "show" cage like Cusco.

I've had all of the above in various cars. This time around I decided to go this route as I prefer the fit and finish of what I feel is a much safer, lighter and more livable bar than what I could get somewhere else.
In the future, I might decide to go with a full weld in cage, but for now I'd like to keep the option of going back to stock.

Are you volunteering? ;)

I hope you don't think we are just attacking it for the sack of attacking it. I just think the design could be improved to increase the functionality of the bar.

I definately appreciate that it was built in the US, TIG'd (although not really needed in a bar, but good TIG welding is awesome!) and uses (I'm assuming) Ballistic Fab ID joints. Although those joints are only ~$35 each, not 100+. Even with two of them at retail ;) Autopower and Kirk both also make good bolt ins, and while their joint method is more common I like these joints. :thumbup:

I agree that the Cusco crap is just for show.

For the best fit and finish, you can't beat a truely custom, no compromise design, that's all I've been using lately. :thumbup:

i would like to see this one on the track. it looks very nice.

I'd like to see one with the interior re-installed to see how much of it needs to be cut. Looks good though

fair points 03Z33. Looking forward to seeing your car on Sunday. I'll be on track. white FRS with blue wheels and AP brakes. hard to miss. :)

Thanks Matt, see you out there!

Here are a few pics of the back seat bases re-installed and the carpeting installed. I don't have the foam pieces and don't plan to re-install the rear seat backrest since it needs to be trimmed and I'm planning to sell my interior complete un-modified. I'm sure someone will post pictures of the bar with the back seat trimmed eventually.

Can you grab a pic of the main hoop mounting and backing plates?

Thanks!

Looks good. But why bother reinstalling the rear seat bases? Just leave them out. Throw some additional carpeting back there if you want to clean it up.

Can this bar set up be installed with out any trimming and modifications to the interior? Like in the above pictures some little parts of the interior are flapping over the bar, any way that can fit with out being over or would have to be cut? And Does it affect the seats at all? No body rides in my back seat regardless, but would like to leave the interior intact instead of gutting.. Thanks -Sal.

Based on the pics you'd have to cut slots in the rear seat backs.

Most will remove, but, it does quiet it down to have as much as possible back there.

Fair enough. I guess it just looks/seems unbalanced with just part of the seat. Maybe remove it and throw down dome sound deadening. IDK, not really an issue. Just curious and thinking out loud...so to speak....

So basically by cutting little slots in the carpeting, the carpet would be able to lay flat with no issues..? And The seats are unaffected?

Well you'd want to slit the carpet for the main hoop. I mean the back seat backs though, you'd have to cut slots in them to leave them installed. So if you didn't want to really modify the interior, you'd want to leave the back seats out (or at least the back/folding portion of it) or best case leave them folded down. The OP could answer if they'd fit folded down.

I agree, I only took those pictures because people asked to see how it looks. Seats are back out and most likely won't be going back in anytime soon.

Back seat fits complete folded down. No need to remove it even during install. Only two things would need to be modified:

1. Rear carpet/foam trim around the rear shock mounting point. Same as if you were installing one of the Cusco/Tanabe rear strut braces

2. Rear seat backrest will need to be trimmed OR rear portion of roll-bar can be removed when riding with passengers in the back seats.

Any pictures of the front mounting points? The rear ones don't exactly inspire confidence in that bar's ability to stay in place in a roll over. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of "OMG this bolt in cage saved my life" testimonials where the OEM crash structure didn't even deform down far enough to contact the bars.

I really like the cage and plan on getting one soon, and its great in so far as im not looking for anything track specific its mostly for show. I still want something more resiliant than the Cusco Crush Cage if god forbid im drifting down some mountain pass in the rain with my lights off at night and no traction control, and then over the side I go LOL. So for someone like me this is really quite perfect. Also I fully intend to leave the back seats in folded down as I like the flush look with the trunk. So all in all im really quite pleased with the cages presentation. Just my humble 2 cents. Oh and can I get it in a different color?

Any color you want, I'm actually going to pull mine out and get it powder coated after this weekend.

I missed this before, but please *NEVER* put someone in the back seats with a bar installed! Sure your friends might think it's cool.. until they have a bar shoved through their skull.

Thanks for stating this Dave. The OP has mentioned twice now about rear passengers with a rollbar. No one should ever ride in the back seat of a car with a rollbar or harness bar installed. Rollbar padding or not, skull to rollbar contact could prove deadly.