Mini Cooper (non-s) compare to the FR-S/BRZ?
 

I have a 07 Mini Cooper MT and I really enjoy driving it. It really is like a little go cart.
Anyone here have both vehicles or have compared them.

I'm wondering if the BRZ/FR-S is more fun to drive. I find the Mini to be fun, superb eco and practical. I know I'll lose some eco and practicality with the BRZ/FR-s but is it worth the trade?

Someone please convenice me to buy one :)... I'm easily convinced...:thumbup:

Car driving history....
--Started with my dad's 89 Chevy Corsica
--Purchased a new Corolla (MT) after the Chevy died prematurely (under 50k miles)
--Drove the Corolla for 10 years and sold it (amazing value and reliability)
--Replaced Corolla with a 2007 Benz C230 (MT) - Very nice and smooth ride but can't handle snow..so traded it for...
--Infinity EX35 (Sporty cross-over) - As nice as the Benz but got bored with it after 2 years...and got..
--Mini Cooper - fun, great on gas, but looking for something faster and fun(er?)

Just to make it clear. You currently have Mini Cooper and Audi TT, and you're thinking of replacing Mini Cooper with FR-S/BRZ?
If that's the case, then I would at least wait until 2014 model comes out.

I don't know how you feel about the ride characteristics of the Mini Cooper, but the FR-S does offer a better ride.

You'll miss the go-kart like experience, because the seating position isn't as upright, the windshield isn't as upright, and the wheelbase isn't as short, but you gain legit boot space, greater potential out of the chassis, and considerably more power with little fuel mileage sacrifice.

The cars I've owned are in my signature, but due to the nature of my previous job, I've driven over 2,500 different cars and a few exotics in the past year, and no, I was not a valet guy.

That's what I'm thinking and wait until 2014 model.

I had a 2007 Cooper S for a few years. The FR-S/BRZ is much more of a sports car. The driving position is MUCH lower. Grip and handling is better. Interior space is MUCH smaller. The Cooper S is plenty of fun, but I feel like on a twisty road the BRZ is much more composed and secure-feeling. The MINI gets a little unsettled when you push it hard in the twisties, especially on bumpy roads. Both cars are really fun to drive in the sense that you can grab them by the scruff of the neck and slide them around a bit. The interior of the BRZ/FR-S is far more intuitive and easy to live with than the quirky/bizarre MINI interior. (I defy you to correctly identify the radio volume knob the first time you get into a MINI.) But you could honestly put a full-sized filing cabinet in a MINI, and there's no way that's going to happen the FR-S.

The MINI is fun but more practical, the BRZ/FR-S more focused on the sport of driving.

--Dan
Mach V

I've had a 2005 Mini Cooper for a little over seven years and I've had my BRZ for three months, both with manual trans. I bought both with autocrossing in mind, and special ordered my Mini with minimal options to keep the weight down (2370 lbs in stock class autocross trim), but did get the optional sport suspension and sport seats.

I love both cars, and I'm glad I didn't have to get rid of my Mini to get the BRZ, as I've grown very attached to it over the years. If I had to choose only one though, it would have to be the BRZ. Four of the top factors would be RWD vs FWD, the lower seating position of the BRZ, the BRZ has an LSD, the Cooper doesn't and the BRZ is a little bit faster in a straight line.

I came from a turbo mini s, you will not miss the mini one bit. Mine did not have a LSD, corners were a joke with the "tc" on and just sad with it off. I have never been as disappointed in a car from a drivers POV than I was with my mini.

I agree with Dan's write-up. To sum it up, the FR-S is a small and low RWD sports car. The Mini is a surprisingly nimble FWD hatch. The Mini is more practical, the FR-S is more fun. I like them both, but only you can decide whether the trade-off is worth it.

If you had a R53 Mini Cooper, I'd say keep it; but since yours is a 2007... sure, trade up. Completely different cars, but the Zx6 twins are faster and arguably more fun.

Personally, I owned a standard Mini Cooper when they went on sale back in '02, then upgraded to a JCW Cooper S in 2006, and have driven a friend's 08 (I think) JCW Clubman S. The newer Minis are alright, but I personally don't like them as much as either the older ones or the Toyota/ Subaru twins. You don't lose that much practicality, to be honest: the back seat down offers almost as much cargo room as a Mini, but the trunk opening just limits the size of things you can load up (in other words, you'll be able to carry as many suitcases in your FR-S, but you can't load up a big-screen TV and TV-stand like you can in the Cooper hatchbacks). Minis feel like go-carts, but the twins feel more like proper sports cars; neither one is better than the other, but I throw it out there because there *is* a difference in the handling characteristics that go beyond the typical FWD vs. RWD debate. A FR-S won't drive like it's on rails quite like a Mini, but will be a lot more communicative and forgiving when limits are reached, and I think with practice and technique (and maybe some courage) its outer limits are higher than the Mini's.

I'd strongly suggest a good test drive, because while both cars are awesome, and I'm glad to have owned both at some point in my life, they're really two completely different approaches to motoring.

Plus the powerband (at least in the S) made my wife's Mini feel more like a bulldog than a greyhound. And I didn't like that. Also the Mini IMO may be only slightly more practical for bigger things, but I don't know if you'd be able to fit 4 tires and a toolkit in the back like the FR-S. The Mini's trunk is very shallow.

I think a high revving engine in a smaller lighter car is almost always the way to go.

I also agree with the short wheelbase making the ride a bit jumpy on undulating curves.

I could easily fit all four race tires plus tools and jack and airtank in the back of my Mini Cooper with the rear seat folded down with room to spare, and still have room for a passenger in the front seat.

I test drove a non-S Mini right before test driving an FRS and then the BRZ that I bought. I like the FRS/BRZ chassis feel while drive alot more. The BRZ also looks so much more sporty than Mini. Don't get me wrong, I liked the Mini when I drove it, fun little car. Just for me, the FRS/BRZ feels alot more like a sports car to me and more balanced. A little more straight line speed too (or at least that's how it felt when I drove all three cars mentioned).

I still grab the wrong knob for the volume.... haha

[QUOTE= (I defy you to correctly identify the radio volume knob the first time you get into a MINI.)
--Dan
Mach V[/QUOTE]

Thank you for all the input. Winter is coming... I'm afraid the FR-S/BRZ might not do too well in the snow. I'll probably keep the Mini for the Winter and trade it in for the BRZ since it'll be my daily driver.

I am a mechanic and I have seen alot of minis in the shop... My driving impression of a mini cooper is that they have a crap chassis, cannot handle rough roads, doesn't turn like it should.

I've driven a base Countryman. A slightly bigger car than the FR-S. The difference was that while the Countryman had quick steering, it did not inspire 1/10th the confidence of the FR-S. It doesn't have the coherence of the FR-S, but feels more like a box of mixed parts working at odds with each other. Not terrible, but I really wanted to get off the highway as soon as possible.

Some of you mentioned that Mini was practical. I really don't see the argument in it considering it's very short and small. 86 does have a somewhat spacious trunk for a coupe, doesn't it? If you want to talk about practical and on a certain level, fun to drive, then GTI or Golf R is the way to go.

You can easily fit larger items in the Mini with the large rear hatch opening and the rear seat folded down, and get stuff in and out easier. With the rear seat up though, the Mini does have less cargo room behind the seat. Rear seat legroom is about the same in both cars, I'm 6'1" and my two kids (8 & 9 years old) can sit in the back seat behind my wife and I with the same level of comfort in either car.

I owned a 2008 Mini hatchback and was quite pleased with its handling and brakes as well as the ability to haul stuff. The FRS is a different animal but handles sharp. It is a hit harder to get in and out of because it sits so low. I sold the Mini because the warranty was almost up and didn't trust its long term reliability.

Winter tires. Plus the FRS has an LSD with 47% of the weight over it. Better, I think than a fwd with a regular diff (~35% over one tire).

Add cables for crazy snow. I'm fully confident I will be able to take my FRS on all of my snowboarding trips this winter.

Comparing driving comfort for long trips. Would you say the BRZ/FR-S is louder and less comfortable than the Mini Cooper (non-S)? I have regular tires on my Mini (not a fan of run-flats) and I have taken 8+ hour trips with it and it's pretty comfortable to me. I rate in the same ball park as my past Corolla but with a little bit more wind noise.

I went on an epic road trip with the FRS starting in Albuquerque, out to LA (one day), then up the pch (hitting up some Malibu canyon roads in the morning, some side roads in big surprise, and skyline boulevard at the end of the day, ending in San Fran...I.e. making it another 12 hour drive), up to wine country and back, out to Yosemite, from there to Vegas cutting through crazy remote Nevada, And finally Vegas to Albuquerque. I was plenty comfortable to whole time. Seats were great (set it in one position and leave it), its very quiet-when you want it to be-and my friend and I had plenty of room to keep all of our luggage in the trunk, including camping gear! Of course that trunk was PACKED, but we didn't have to worry about random crap flying about in side, hitting us in the head when I drove the FRS like it was meant to be driven. It was THE CAR to take, bar none.



I've been in a mini around town, and even drove one briefly, and I think for me, I wouldn't like the upright seating for long trips, and the fact that there is no separation from the luggage compartment, even as much as I like the versatility of a hatch back . (I took my kayak to the beach INSIDE a fiat 500, but can't in the FRS due to the trunk pass through height.) Don't get me wrong, I'd still road trip a mini too if I had that instead, but I think the frs is very road trip capable.

My wife owns a 2009 Mini Cooper (non-s) MT and I have a BRZ Limited MT, so I guess I qualify to comment here.

Practicality:
The mini has better visibility.
Both cars are relatively similar in size, so each of them (individually) fit in our ridiculously small garage fairly well :P
The Mini's backseats are way better.
In terms of storage, they both have their pros and cons, the mini is a bit shorter inside so long items dont fit as well, but on the other hand it has a hatch which is much nicer for transporting bigger items.
Both the Mini and BRZ are similar in terms of road noise, neither one is too bad, not up to higher end German standards though.
Mini fuel economy is at least 7-10mpg better, I don't remember exactly what she's getting per tank but the best I've done in the BRZ is 31mpg AVG (50/50 driving)

Driving:
BRZ is rear wheel drive, so completely different handling between the two cars. The RWD is a LOT of fun! The mini is one of the best handling FWD cars I've driven though, so it does well anyway.
You sit much lower in the BRZ, getting in and out is a bit of a chore sometimes but worth it, feels sporty!
The clutch in the mini is much firmer, not really a pro or con, just different.
The BRZ has quite a bit more power, and honestly just sounds more enthusiastic while driving hard.
The powerband of the BRZ is noticeably different, revs for what feels like days and feels much torquier in the lower RPMs
Seats are much more laterally supportive and sporty in the BRZ, though the Mini seats are better for a long drive (3+ hours)
Transmission, both are good - BRZ is notchier and you feel the shifts a bit more, the mini is a smoother motion. Again just a matter of preference here
Turning circle is similar
Both feel very fun and sporty to drive, but the mini feels taller and heavier, BRZ is sharper in just about every way.
Steering feel on the mini is excellent, as is the BRZ. BRZ is lighter, Mini is heavier
Braking feel on the Mini is very aggressive and touchy, but once you get used to it not too bad. The BRZ on the other hand is a much more gradual and easy to modulate pressure. Both have excellent braking!

Interior:
Both cars are kind of lower grade, but I'd say theres a bit more premium materials in the BRZ - marginally though
Layout of the electronics (I have the Limited version so Premium is different) I'd give to the BRZ because the Mini's ergonomics are horrible...
The Mini has steering wheel controls which would be nice on the BRZ
Stock sound system is better on the BRZ by a fair margin, not sure if this has been improved since 2009 on the minis, but it sucks on ours

If you have any more questions let me know! The mini cooper S might be a better challenger for the BRZ in terms of power, I imagine they'd be pretty close.

Excellent comparison, exactly what I wanted to know. Thank you.

The MPG on the Mini is truly incredible. my on-board computer computed 41.7 MPG hwy and ~40mpg mixed driving. I can get up to 570 miles a tank when I drove from MD to Atlantic Beach, SC.

I used to get around 37 mix driving but after changing the stock spark plugs to NGK Laser Iridium Spark Plugs, my MPG improved quite a bit.

okay so which one look better on street now? :)

They both look good in their own ways. :) Tinted Mini with 19" wheels, spoiler, looks nice. I'm sure the same can be said about the FR-S/BRZ. My GF thinks the Mini is "cuter" hehehe:bonk:

Depends who you ask. Our Mini Cooper has gotten more complete strangers coming up to my wife and I to talk to and compliment us about the car than any other car (we've had more than 20) we've owned, including our Mustangs, the Miata, the BRZ, etc. Of course a lot of people hate its cuteness as well. It tends to be more polarizing in that regard than a lot of other cars.

I had a new Mini Cooper jcw with tons done to it and it drew quite a bit of attention but nothing like my brz. Brz and the mini are very similar and completely different. I'd say for tuning the brz has a way higher potential just because the jcw being front wheel drive and for having the most extracted from the small engine its pretty much the most you can get. But it's almost the opposite with the brz. I've done a bit of ecu tuning and have got 35 more whp with that alone. And the steering is different just because you are controlling only where the car goes not the drivetrain and steering. I sold my jcw and got the brz and honestly one of the best choices I've ever made. I lOVED the mini but the brz I love just that much more

Own Cooper S, have test driven GT86.
BLUE:Agree
RED: Added info
Green: I disagree
Black Normal text: no comment (/or not enough experience to comment on)




Here is dyno charts from Perrin. Same dyno,stock cars:
http://blog.perrinperformance.com/wp...cs-550x343.jpg

Cooper S can also get more power than the BRZ with a simple ECU tune.. Like most modern BMWs, the engine is underrated.
BRZ have more potential if you are looking for high numbers and modify much. The chassis in the BRZ would also handle more power better.
Cooper S have insane power from 3000-5000 rpm compared to BRZ!

Both are great cars, but at the same time very different.

Mini cooper is a chick car.

/thread.

You are comparing the Cooper S, we were comparing the standard Cooper. Read the last line in my post. Obviously vs a Cooper S the cars are on a more level playing field in terms of power, the advantage likely going to the Cooper S in most cases.

I drive both cars on a daily basis, I stick with the interior being a lot more intuitive in the BRZ. Both have useless analog speedometers though lol! Also, in the BRZ the alcantara seats, compared to the pleather on the base cooper, as well as the leather trim and soft touch dash make the BRZ feel a bit better inside. If you add leather options to the mini's they become very expensive very quickly so I don't think that's worth comparing.

yeah, a worked mini kicked my ass the track tho...they DO handle. I wasnt in the BRZ either,it was in a much faster car-335i...

Yepp, I know you guys compared the normal car. Just wanted to share my experience and tell I had pretty much the same toughts as you. Good comparison! :)

And because of your last sentence I thought it might be nice to add the info on the Cooper S since they are more on level in terms of power. The engine in the Cooper S was one of the things i really fell for! And im really not an engine guy. At least not before i tried, and owned the Cooper S.
Id recommend anyone interested in a Cooper to try out the S version.. The engine have recived the international engine of the year award in its class for several years. Its predecessor won before that. The upcoming 1,5l will probably be great too.. Great enginering..

I just wished to BRZ had the poweroutput of the Cooper S, even tough it would loose a little throttle response.
BRZ is a lot more expensive here due to its higher HP output and MUCH higher emissions. In the Mini you can drive around in 30mph in 6. gear and still have decent power to go up hills at about 1200rpm... Quite amazing for a 1,6l.

Id change my car into a 86/BRZ if I could tough... Because racecar! ;p

I would rather the MCS engine over the BRZ 2.0L. The torque difference is gorgeous.

Funny, I'm more of the opinion that the digital speedo is the useless part. I keep mine on kph as I hate advertising my speed with big lit-up digits for anyone who drives by me.

My gf has a 2010 Mini Cooper (non-S) 6MT and while the car is short and there isn't much cargo space, she is pretty amazing at cramming shit in there. If you push the passenger seat forward, you can put something long up on the back of the seat. The space behind the rear seat is a joke, though.

I do agree that the Mini has a marginally better rear seat, but for anyone close to 6', they're both worthless.

The Mini is definitely a cutesey car that you either love/hate. Personally, I think they are pretty neat, but I could never get over the ridiculous gauges and the fact that you're stuck with whatever the factory decided to give you for a stereo. The sound is decent, but what if you want a double-DIN? And like Dan said, I can never go for the correct knob for volume. All the knobs and switches are just gimmicky to me.

BUT...they're pretty light, corner great (especially for FWD) and get excellent gas mileage. My gf can't get <33mpg to save her life. I struggle to get up to 30 in my BRZ. That being said, my car gets better gas mileage when she drives....hehe wonder why.

I had an '02 MINI, and I missed it quite a bit before I got my FR-S. Now, not so much. The handling on it was great, very good stock shocks. However, shifter and brakes were pretty terrible, and there were other ergonomic quirks the car had that had me dumbfounded. For example, the doorhandle design that froze up in the winter. The sun visors that left a huge area of the windshield uncovered. The shape of the hard plastic "armrest". Of course, there is also the center-mounted speedometer.

Mine also had more rattles and squeaks than just about any car I've ever owned, and that includes GM and Kia. FWIW, I got the same 23MPG on average with my MINI that I also get in my FR-S, and also the 2010 Kia Soul that I had. If I'm getting much better than that, it means I'm not having enough fun.

E350 is what my grandma drives. What a useless comment.

:)

I think that turbo engine is quite boring. It's not that rev happy so driving hard with high rpms isn't satisfying, doesn't sound good and it lacks charism. You can find that kind of engine almost every sporty european car. It has good mid-range torque, but so does have my dd too but it is still booring.... :iono:

Mini is a great car, but GT86/FRS/BRZ is a totally different animal.

I agree that it is not that rev happy. Due to its torque I do gear changes somewhere between 4700-6000. Usually around 5000 rpm on the street, but that also have to do with speed limits. ;) I could rev it past 6500 half tough.

I would not compare it with most turbo petrol engines. Because most of them have an even duller top-end. And diesel is no competition what so ever..
In the Cooper S you get the low-end mid-range and some top-end. And also the ability to rev it very far if you want to... (say you want to stick in the same gear for Auto-X) Turbo lag is also very limited..
You know of any better 4 cylinder turbo engines with under 200hp?

People have been in my car and said if feels very fast for only having 184hp.
Me and my friend did a comparison. He has CLK 230 kompressor with some tuning. About 225hp from 2,3L kompressor engine. Cooper S is faster.

NA vs turbo is all a matter of preferences tough. I have always been into NA before, but I like modern turbo engines. They are impressive.And the tax system here favors turbo by a huge margin.
Main problem with BRZ is the mid-range.. It does not have much juice...
But if you got 86/BRZ to rev to 8000+ then it might have a much more usable powerband.
Only problem is, for the street, 1 st gear can be a little lame and 2nd gear will get you a ticked or worse if you want to feel some of that top-end power.
If you don't use that top-end on the BRZ/86 a BMW 116 with 136hp will outrun you if both cars would stay under 4500rpm.

But yeah. Mini and BRZ/86 are two quite opposites.. Both fun in their own ways. Im more into RWD sporty cars to be honest. If I could choose tough. GT86 with with Cooper S engine/output.. :p The fact that it would be 10.000 euro cheaper with that engine would make it a no brainer in Norway..