Winter
 

What are your plans for the winter driving? Black ice is scary as hell around here...

Four snow tires (Blizzaks) and smart common sense driving. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping it'll work out.

:search:

Pickup Truck with All-Terrain tires....I haz one lol

Seriously...not even gonna try driving this thing in the snow, plus the money I would spend on snow tires would completely negate the fuel I am saving by driving the BRZ in the winter. So it will happily live in the garage while I drive the pickup truck in the winter.

This will be my year round driver so I'll be slapping on some snow tires as well and roughing it.

I definitely agree with the above, if you are going to be driving the BRZ in the winter, GOOD snow tires are a complete MUST, it's even more important on a BRZ than a regular car because the BRZ is rear wheel drive ONLY. A good set of Blizzaks would suit you well, I would also suggest getting a cheap pair of steel wheels to mount them on, 16" wheels fit this car and 16" snow tires are easier to find and cheaper than 17" tires. A second set of steel wheels will also allow you to not have to remount your tires whenever you want to get them changed.

16" steelies with snows and some weight in the trunk :)

Oh yes, I forgot about adding weight! I might just leave my 4 tires in my trunk (in tire totes). I'm curious if they are heavy enough though. I think I read that each tire is about 50lbs or so (tires are 20lb, I don't know exactly how heavy the rims are).

Harden the F%$# up and drive! (with snow tires)

http://www.laughingstock.com.au/stor...hopperhtfu.jpg

It always confuses me why people make it out to be that bad driving in snow, especially with this car since it's not like it has a ton of torque to break loose the rear end that easy anyways, I drove my Dodge Magnum on ultra high performance all season tires in the winter for all 8 years I owned it with no problems, and that was a RWD car with a V8 that had 390 ft-lbs of torque. I honestly have zero concerns of driving my BRZ in the winter.

yea the only real concern is getting stuck in deep snow. Although an sti or evo is basically just as low except the AWD.

My plan is to buy some 16" snow tires (probably Michelins for better tread life) with dedicated steel wheels, load about 120lb of something in the trunk (potting soil, fill dirt, etc), and drive with my brain adjusted properly. I don't usually have to go to work in storms anyway, so I'm not worried.

I might just use the stock rims for the winter. Unless I can find a nice used set of rims on craigslist.

The only problem with this is the cost of 17" snow tires.

that is true although I was doing some math and the cost of steelies might offset the extra price of the 17s. Plus I don't know if I could look at steelies for 6 months. Hopefully I will get lucky and come across some nice 16'' wrx rims

This, I'm just mounting some blizzaks probably on steelies with a couple bags of sand in the trunk (also useful if I get stuck). Beyond that, I'll just avoid crazy storms like any driver should. With a manual car, a LSD, and some common sense this should be fine to drive on the road and a TON of fun in an abandoned parking lot.

Studless snows on the stock rims.

I'm not convinced that anyone should be adding weight to the trunk of this car. It has a perfect weight balance from the factory; adding weight would only serve to throw off the car's balance and make it less responsive. Modern snow tires have a silica compound which effectively "bite" the pavement, allowing for more grip in slippery conditions. I feel like you'd be more prone to breaking the ass end out by creating a pendulum effect with the weight in the trunk. I never put weight in my E30 BMW's trunk and it did just fine with snow tires. My MR2 is a different story given that the engine sits over the drive wheels.

It doesn't have a pefect weight balance though, it has a near perfect 53-47 weight balance, adding 165.6 pounds in the back would make it have a perfect 50-50 weight balance.

But yeah, personally I wouldn't add any weight to the back of the car for the winter. The only vehicle I ever added weight in the back on was my 2000 Dodge Dakota 5.9 R/T because it was a RWD pickup with a V8 and thus no weight in the back so it needed it.

No matter what you decide to do...snow tires, weight, etc. your best bet is going to be picking an empty parking lot beforehand (streets will probably be plowed already) then head there when there's some snow on the ground and really finding out what the limits of the car are for basic winter driving. Learning to control a skid in a rwd car and resisting the urge to brake (downshift instead) are key to winter driving (aside from tires). No matter what tires you have if you slide a little bc you brake and slide you're now going to have to deal with the packed snow you created.

Keep in mind...you could be the best driver in the world...it's other people you have to worry about.

like others have already mentioned, studless winter tires and you are good to go.

I've gone through 5 winters with all-seasons on 18's on an E46, this will be a piece of cake as long as you don't go crazy on the road when it's snowing/icy.

Argument against putting weight in the trunk.
 

I heard a convincing argument against putting weight in the FR-S/BRZ' trunk. The car is very well balanced, with the weight placed as close to the center of the car as was feasible. Therefore, as much as possible, the car pivots around its own center. In addition, the car is biased in such a way as to lose traction in the rear first - for drifting purposes.

So, if you place weight in the trunk, you are putting mass away from the center and over the least stable end of the car. If the car starts to turn due to loss of traction, the weight will tend to boomerang the car off of its intended path. Whereas if the weight is centered in middle of the car it is much more likely to turn around its own center axis and stay on the road.

So, top-rated snows on all four wheels and keeping the weight distribution the same is best alternative.

If you feel that there is not enough weight to cause the tires to cut through slush and snow to the pavement, you have two additional alternatives. The best alternative is to use narrower tires to decrease the tire patch size (the part of the tire in actual contact with the road) - thereby concentrating more weight per square inch of tire patch. Or, you could add weight to the center of the car - front seat, rear passenger floor, etc.

You pretty much read my mind on this topic and the narrow tires makes sense. I've never heard that since just about everyone I know uses their trucks, suvs, or jeeps in the winter and just add some weight to the rear with their big ass tires to get through the bad snowy conditions. Anyway this seems like a logical solution, but don't forget to add winter tires as well.

Do you think our cars can use 195/50/16's? Saw a set of 4 rims with snow tires for $500 on Craigs list.

Yes, good points. Trucks have a totally different distribution of weight, and there is too little weight in the bed if it is empty. That's where weight can be helpful, if placed over the rear axle.

I've always driven small 2wd pickups, and I never could figure what all the fuss was about. How often do you see 2wd pickups off the road though? It's always the big 4wd's stuck in snow banks.

Anyway, yeah, the car's gonna be a garage queen for the winter, if only 'cause I don't want all the winter grime on it. With 500lbs of sand in the back, not much stops my little Colorado.

Only because 4WD drivers think they are invincible...not because 2WD is better in the snow. Sorry, but your little Colorado would never make it through some of the stuff my 4WD Tacoma would/does. It's all about not being stupid and trying to drive through a 4 foot snow bank...or knowing when it's appropriate to use 4Lo and having proper tires. Most people just think OH I HAVE 4WD, LET ME DRIVE OVER EVERYTHING WITH NO CARES IN THE WORLD.

I two years ago I drove home 2 hours in that huge blizzard we had in January at 3am before the plows had a chance to clear it. There was a least 18" of snow on the highway and I was able to comfortably drive 55mph home in 4WD for 80 miles, I doubt your 2WD Colorado could have done that without fishtailing. I'm not trying to criticize your driving ability, but your observations of 4WD vehicles getting stuck more often than 2WD has nothing to do with the vehicles themselves...but the drivers who drive them and their mentalities. Having 4WD leads people to have a misleading sense of safety and capabilities, for example someone with 4WD is more likely to attempt to barge through a large snowbank and get stuck because they thought "I HAVE 4WD I CAN DO THIS" than someone with 2WD looking at the same snowbank. 2WD is not more capable than 4WD...if this were true than every single off-road vehicle in existence is doing it wrong.

Yeah, mine's getting locked away in the garage unless we somehow get as mild of a winter as we did last year (doubtful). No second car for me (and no money for snow ties + steelies) though, I'll be abusing the MBTA, and my feet, December onward.

Keep in mind, those summer tires are hazardous at temperatures below 40.

Tire Rack tested them vs all-season and dedicated snows in 2009.

Here are some of the results on a snowy surface:

0-60 mph
Winter tires - 19.1 seconds
All-season - 22.9 seconds
Summer tires - 69 seconds

60-0 mph
Winter tires - 156 feet
All-season - 184 feet
Summer tires - 351 feet

Even in dry conditions, if the temperature dips close to freezing, the summer tire compound will harden like bubble gum left outside.

So if you keep your car inside in the winter, you'll need to keep it inside except on the warmest days.
Summer tires - 69 seconds

Tire Rack test: http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...vs-summer.html

I am going to find roof racks put my snowboard on top and drive the car with stock tires until I have an issue. If I dont have enough traction I will go the snow tire route.

I pretty much agree what you said. Driving the best and the safest way through bad snow days relies on how well the driver acts.

With that being sad, the part I bold reminded me when an old friend of mine and his s10. He didn't care how bad the weather got he'd would just go out and drive his truck into or over snowbanks. :lol: He would always show me the damage he'd done to his truck when he did that and liked it as if it was something to brag about. SMH. Anyway, I thought I share that.

I should'a added a smily to indicate some sarcasm, wasn't trying to say 2wd is better, just poke some fun at 4wd drivers. I also had a 4wd toyota pickup, it was stable as a billy goat, but I live and work in the seacoast so 2wd does the job. My truck is good for 6-8 inches so of heavy and 'round a foot of lighter snow. You're definitely wrong about my truck fishtailing in 18 inches but... cause you can't really fishtail if you're not moving, heh. The Ranger I drove was flat out horrible though, a constant fight to keep a straight line in just a few inches.

Anyway, car, truck, 2 4 or awd, it's really down to picking your battles. As long as someone drives sensibly and keeps the speed down, I think these cars will do just fine in the winter, as good as any other 2wd car.

In my experience, the ordinary laws of physics and man do not apply in Rhode Island. Everything is different, surprising and interesting in that state.

Its so true RI is strange we sorta do out own thing.

Fun Facts Rhode Island was the first of the 13 original colonies to declare independence from British rule, declaring itself independent on May 4, 1776, two months before any other colony. The State was also the last of the thirteen original colonies to ratify the United States Constitution.

where you are, you could actually get away with "all-seasons" if you are careful,and can get OFF the roads,BEFORE the heavy wet stuff hits! i have the luxury of being retired,so i don't HAVE to be on the road as part of any commute,so i am going with the "turanzas" that scion is putting on the snow belt cars now.i will pick up mine next week.

i think this is key! not having to go to work,and getting,and staying OFF the roads when the storms hit can make a huge difference!

this is very true! it's the reality you have ''zero" control over unfortunately!

yes it can be done,but you MUST keep your speed down on the highways,and
just tap your brakes,while downshifting,this should get you home! if you want, ,or HAVE to venture out in heavier snow,you definitely WILL need dedicated snow tires.

I suppose, but I had also driven in the middle of a blizzard with my Dodge Magnum with all season still with no problem. Now I could see needing snow tires if you lived in the middle of no where, where they don't plow much and there are several inches or more of snow on the roads often, but I've never seen the roads like that since I've been driving, and if I was living in a spot like that a sports car, RWD or not, wouldn't be my daily drive in the winter.

yes! i totally agree! a car such as a dodge magnum has satisfactory "ballast" in that it is a heavier car,and the more "ballast" you have in slippery conditions,the better off you are.
the weight creates "traction" which with proper throttle control, will be sufficient to keep you moving even when equipped with (a.s.) tires.the roads around andover,and salem get plowed virtually right away,so it is possible if your timing is right, to travel around satisfactorily in a "heavier" car. not so sure about the frs,because it is a very light car,and even with "nannies" could be a "bear" venturing out with (as) tires.i'll bet the "nannies" may make a difference though, if one is careful! we'll see!

Actually overall Lighter cars are better for snow driving, yes heavier cars have more weight to push down on the tires to get traction, however they also need proportionality more traction to get that extra weight moving, plus heavier cars are harder to stop and more prone to slide off the road because their mass keeps them moving more so than a lighter car, at worse case I would say the BRZ will be the same in the snow, but really i'm pretty sure it will be better in the snow than the Magnum was.

well i don't agree,however i am hoping the car will be "satisfactory" in light snow travel,so i can get home if i get caught in a nasty one! it's all i am concerned with,get home,and let the plows do their thing! i really don't want to have to spend $1,000 or so for a good set of dedicated snows,but in reality,it's what truly needs to be done to travel under snowy conditions in THIS car! actually,the trick is to get back before the storms hit anyway! he! he! he!

It is not the weight itself, but the amount of weight divided by the surface area of the tire patch. If you take a 5,000 lb car and put the weight on a 200 square inch tire patch, that is equivalent to a 2,500 lb car with a 100 square inch tire patch. Both will "cut through the snow" to the same degree. In fact a 30 pound bicycle with a 70 lb child will "cut through the snow" better than either.

However, all other things being equal, the 2,500 lb car will behave much better in the snow as it has far less mass and requires less force to stop.