S3 Magazine Real vs Fake Wheel article
 

Good read! Support the innovators of the industry, not the fakers!

http://s3mag.com/blog/?p=4237

Do you buy generic prescription drugs?
Do you buy any store brand food/household goods?

I understand the concept, but no everyone can afford to drop $2000 on wheels and tires. I know LOTS and LOTS of track guys who care more about spending money on tires, suspension parts and track fees then wheels because the difference between Works and Rotas are 3 track days. Then they take their cheap wheels and beat the pants off of guys who are bringing 2K worth of wheel to the track...for what?

Sure...hardparking is all about image, so I can understand repping the real deal there. The people who buy knock off wheels aren't people who would likely have sprung for higher end wheels anyway, so I don't think much business is lost.

Rep fakes if it means more track time!

Edit: I'll note that I don't buy knock offs because I can afford not to, but I don't hate on people who do because their budget constricts them.

^^ I second that, well said.. that was the reason why i bought Rotas for my Evo when i had it, spent more time on the track and it did its job

You can't buy generic prescription drugs until the original is off patent.

If Apple owned Work, they'd claim they invented the 5x100 bolt pattern!

Cheap wheels are fine, but when a company simply buys a product that cost money to develop and runs it through a photocopier, that's not cool.

Those who think it is have obviously have never created anything in their lives ... and never will.

No, I don't buy store brand shit either. In the end that just costs more, but I don't expect the average consumer to understand that.

Generic drugs and products dont work in this sense in that the generic products typically contain the exact same ingredients as the name brand stuff. The same cannot be said about wheels. Maybe if these replica companies were able to obtain the same raw materials as well as using the exact same production methods, that might be another story. But that is not the case here.

I agree, there are some people who cannot justify spending the amount for some of the high end wheels out there. But settling for an inferior knock off product from a company that simply reverse engineers a quality product and churns out a weaker and lower quality replica is wrong and unsafe in my book. There are many wheels out there such as the Enkeis and Gramlights that are priced close to alot of these knock off brands, they might not look identical to the TE37 you want, but atleast you can rest assured you are getting the most for your money from an original product. as unethical as it is, unfortunately this is an issue that will always remain. I just posted this to educate some of the new guys to the scene incase they were to buy a replica wheel thinking it was a real :)

One of the funniest things happened while at the last Blox Racing show up in Norcal a couple months ago. I was at the Mackin Industries booth and this guy standing next to me pointed at a TE37 Superlap and said "hey, that looks alot like that one varrstoen wheel" LMAO :bonk:

Store brand food/household goods are usually manufactured in the same plants as the brand names.

I'm much more qualified to answer about drugs though...For a good majority of drugs the generics are just as good as the brand name. Hell the generic for Protonix is not only made in the same company as Protonix but it even says Protonix on it. But as previously mentioned, no generic drugs do not usually have the same exact ingredients as the brand name.


Wheels! Knockoff wheels are not made with anywhere near the quality of the real thing. And with a lack of quality comes a bonus of weight. Look at how popular TE37's became because of their low weight. Rota makes a knockoff and they sell like hot cakes for usually the purpose of looking good and they do the job just fine. Don't expect them to perform the same way though.

Thing is, even if they are equally good performance wise, there are people here that like to support good manufacturers that spend the R&D money and time to bring us good things even when they know some chinese company will rip them off in the near future.

Growing up my mother always told me there's some things you just don't cheap out on because in the end you'll end up paying more when you try to save a buck. Wheels are a good example of one of these things. Probably not what she meant though. If you're budget doesn't allow for the real thing, just save the money altogether. Not knocking anyone here, I can't justify plopping down $4k for some BBS LM's, that doesn't mean I should spend $800 on knock offs.

If you're really a hard racing, rather than hard parking wheel purchaser, why do you need your cheap wheels to look like CE28Ns?

From my experience is to never go cheap on tires & wheels reason being is because they're the first contact patch to touch the ground. Tires go, you're FUCKED, wheels fracture/break/come off you're fucked.

I'm usually not worried about the brand per se but the quality of the wheel that is cast/forged especially if they are gonna be used for hardcore track days. IMO, wheels that cost more usually equates to a better product, better build, and better quality control. Not all the time but most of the time.

I follow this philosophy in all of life, so i'll be going with the name brand. They will not however, be a bright white set of Volks.

fuck that! spending $2k on wheels is stupid.
I'll take some sweet Rota knock-offs for a 3rd of the price ANY DAY!
I've had them for ever and they can take all the abuse.

Innovation of what? the wheel?!! :laughabove:

So why do they need to look EXACTLY like a stupid $2k set of wheels?

I would love to be able to spend $3k on some SSR, Volk, etc but things happen and f one of them got scratched or damaged I would lose it. I have Rota DPT's now and some XXR's on the way and as long as they are safe for daily driving i don't have a problem with it. If all i wanted on the car were wheels i would have gotten something nicer but there are lots of other things i want to spend my money on too.

if were speaking about looks, what if someone likes TE37s or CR kais, but like the rotas better because they are more concave?

would you consider rotiform "fakes" ?

how about SSR Professor SP1s vs. Work Meisters?

not trying to prove any points just curious

To follow on with that, I'd like to know which wheels/mfgs are considered "real" and which are considered "fake".

Is there a list somewhere? Considering how sensitive folks get on this subject, I'm assuming there's a breakdown somewhere.

Just for info: I've had Rota's, Enkie's, TSW's, and a bunch of others that are offroad related.

Blah... Some of these "fake" companies actually make the real ones for the "real" company..

If its round and I like it and I don't have to pay an arm and a leg, I'm in.. Now when I curb one, I dont worry about it, I'll just buy another

You know, the only thing these replica wheel companies really are knocking off is design. That's expected in any kind of industry, whether you're a candle stick maker, baker, interior designer, car designer, or whatever. Design will always get knocked off.

What can't really be knocked off easily is manufacturing processes and engineering.

When it boils down to it, you will always have people who do not mind getting replicas [fakes or however one wants to call it] and that should be fine. The market will keep readjusting against the noise that gets created by the wheel industry until an equilibrium is reached where the innovators can continually succeed, while copiers will get left behind.

If an inventor/innovator stayed discouraged by this, then there wouldn't be any new innovation. That has always been an innovator's dilemma, but one that should always be tacitly calculated well. Clearly, we do not see this as we have seen numerous of innovation not only in the automotive industry, but also in technology.

You can only make a wheel look so different. Theres companies that make wheels that look like or similar to other companies' wheels.

http://kyoei-usa.com/prodimages/works1aw.jpg
http://www.rd-tanabe.com/lineup/ssr/...me/wheel04.jpg
http://maxcdn.nexternal.com/vacmotor...s/BBS%20LM.jpg
http://image.nengun.com/catalogue/or...eels-vs_xx.jpg

You're right, sometimes they look similar by accident and are not just imitations.

What do you reckon here, accident?

http://www.fakewheels.com/images/v2.jpg

http://www.chicagoz.com/wp/images/Volk-CE28.jpg

http://www.chicagoz.com/wp/images/Rota-DPT.jpg

It's really simple when you think about it. The cheapos who do not mind buying an inferior wheel will continually do so up to a point if and when an inferior wheel fails, while the ones who actually do their due diligence in the matter, will buy a superior wheel.

It shouldn't really piss anyone off if people like to buy a cheap imitation with substandard quality. That's nothing new.

What's surprising is how people cheap out on fake/inferior wheels on a new car they just bought... that will always be mind boggling.

If there's a meme for that it would say--

Buys $28k FRS/BRZ
.
.
.
Puts on fake wheels

And to add -- budget is a poor excuse to buy inferior/fake wheels. People are spending about $28k+ for a new FRS/BRZ -- what budget are you talking about here??? That's a new fcking car you just bought. It's not like people are buying fake cars to begin with either.

'Fake wheels' only really make sense when people in first place buys a car second hand [used].

Welcome to NASIOC

I wouldn't even put fake wheels on a beater 240... I'm sorry. Maybe that's why I don't have aftermarket wheels on any of my cars, but I would rather rock OEM / STOCK with better tires than rock COPIED designs of another person's work.

That's just my opinion from an artist's / designer's standpoint. YES, to a certain degree, engineering / physics / stress models lead to similar design points, but there are very clear and rampant copies of very popular wheels like the TE37, that just pass along as "good enough" and "way cheaper". Well of course it is, because some else designed and built it first!

Hell, if I had enough money, I could 3-D scan and build my own GT-R or LF-A and sell them for 30% of what Nissan or Lexus is charging if I could get away with it.

Innovators, not Imitators.

If they get you to the starting line, and across the finish line, the @#!% else matters?

I don't hate on people that buy knockoffs. But there are certain knockoffs I respect since sometimes they have the design you like but the real thing doesn't come in the bolt pattern/offset/width that you need. Or if they are copies a wheel that was discontinued.

There are certain wheels that I love too much to get fakes. Namely CR Kai/Kiwami (sorry but the Rota versions don't look anything like the real ones, imo) and CE28N. I'll just get those when I have cash.

Personally out of all the wheels I'm looking at for my car, I'm only thinking about one set that's a knockoff for the reasons listed above. Otherwise, I'll just go with original stuff (or whatever's cool/cheap on the secondhand market).

Cheap, Reliable, Light. Pick two..

Ultimately, know what you're buying, don't make excuses, and don't try to pass off knock-offs as the real thing.

I'll agree here please don't put BBS stickers in your LM replica's

Just don't buy knock-offs used. They might be okay for a bit when new, but their longevity (and resale value) will suck.

It's ok fellas. We shouldn't mind people buying cheap low quality wheels. Their monies contribute for this crappy economy's total GDP someway somehow :D

We should make this thread a sticky

For those touching on quality, even higher priced, "real" wheels can fail. Obviously not as frequently as lower end or "cheap" ones. As people mentioned, that's due to materials/manufacturing process.

However, even cheap wheels, such as rota, have come a long way from what they used to be. I know people that track on expensive and cheap wheels... both have been fine without issues.

What's important to look at is HOW the wheel failed, i.e. what conditions was the wheel subjected to first. Poor fitment for a wheel (mostly "fake" ones, unfortunately) is often overlooked (e.g., brake caliper rubbing against the wheel). Running off track or slamming into a curb is often overlooked. The end result is usually the same: "Brand X sucks don't get them, look how they broke."

That's obvious. Pretty sure if my tire popped or fell of the bead at all (due to an off-track or w/e)....even a set of $2k+ wheels are gone. Doesn't matter if it's $250/wheel or $750... asphalt+metal=not good

In addition, I'm not advocating to use cheaper wheels or more expensive wheels. Either can be just as functional. Care needs to be taken, regardless which type one chooses. Slamming into a pot hole can be bad for any wheel, not just a cheaper one. In the end, choose a wheel that you think meets your needs.

What do you guys consider "Fake" vs "Real"?.. every wheel are real, they are just rebranded for different markets.. If you consider Rotas fake which are "reproductions" of and they have been tested on track and in house to make sure they are safe. my friends in the philippines uses rotas for drifting, track and everyday usage.. One particular friend of mine uses custom rota wheels for his cars and he drifts the cars on rotas plus he told me he'd rather use those than expensive wheels.

Cefiro A31 RB25 17x9.5 ET (-10) 235 45 17
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...62420014_n.jpg

His M5 with custom wide wheels
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...94264399_n.jpg

If you guys do a search and look up wheels UK, you will find also wheels that have been reproduce for their market to fit their cars which those wheels are not available in our country. This has been an on going debate through all the forums.. here are pics of "REAL" wheels that broke.. then ask yourself how much you would pay for wheels.. Id buy Rotas any day, use the saved money for some expensive tires.

Enkie RPF-01
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL19/.../368517825.jpg

Advan TC-II
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL19/.../368517823.jpg

SSR
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL19/.../368517860.jpg

Custom HRE Wheels
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL19/.../368518233.jpg

Rays (notice Made in Japan)
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...538Resized.jpg

Yes we know that even real, high quality wheels can fail and that's fact. Any wheel can fail really. The issue here which fails more often? Imitators or innovators?

Well that all depends on how you use it, im sure 90% of the guys here will never track their car to even push the limit of their wheels. Daily driving im sure the reproduction wheels will do its job as good as the originals. Im not expecting my wheels to come apart going around a turn in my commute.

I think this is generally true for strength and cost:
gravity cast < low pressure cast < flow formed < forged

and this is generally true for wheel weight for a given load capacity:
forged < flow formed < low pressure cast < gravity cast

I look at it the other way around. I plan on autocrossing my car, but it is first and foremost my daily driver. As a daily driver stuff happens - pot holes, debris, raised sections, surrounded by curbs. Autocross courses are generally flat with cones as the only 'hazards'. So I bought wheels lighter than stock for autocross but strong enough for my personal DD peace of mind. If I were just autocrossing the car I would have bought even lighter cheaper wheels.

Maybe check into the manufacturing process and load capacity of the wheels along with the weight, cost, and looks, before deciding.

i have to add that not all forged wheels are the same, companies like rays and bbs have superior forging techniques compared to other brands because their forged wheels are mold forged which utilizes presses which basically pounds the wheel into shape. pretty much all other forging companies out there use billet blanks and simply machine their wheels and call it a forged wheel. When you cut into the wheel like that you are essentially making it weaker by cutting the grain flow structure of the wheel. here is a good read: http://www.rayswheels.co.jp/catalog/201110forginge/



besides that "custom hre" wheel, these wheels all were obviously subjected to some sort of hard IMPACT which caused the the wheels to break. The great thing about Volk wheels is that even in accidents, they dont break, they usually bend. Which is why they're so highly regarded in the racing industry because a bad off on the racetrack will crack a low quality wheel causing it to lose air, while the Volks will bend but still hold air to continue and finish the race.

now if you look at these replica wheels pictured, they didnt simply break because of an impact, they FAILED! The freakin faces of the wheels were sheared off the barrel for gods sake! Now tell me thats safe!

http://i.imgur.com/AoDbA.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/q90Ro.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RC3oG.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/GVDhB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oLGxa.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EX5sz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TmQ5f.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/06oA1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/y3faY.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mXTlU.jpg

I found this article to be pretty interesting:
http://custompinoyrides.com/2012/03/...f-rota-wheels/

not that it really matters. Haters are going to hate.

Uh Oh, someone better notify GST that the Rota's they've been breaking records on in their Time Attack car are going to spontaneously explode if they don't switch them out! :rolleyes:

I too used to buy into the "Rota sucks" bandwagon. Yes, they had some QC issues YEARS ago. But in the last few years their wheels have been consistently well made pressure cast pieces. Are they the lightest wheels you'll ever find? No. But unless you're Colin McRae or the next Schumacher I doubt it's going to matter all that much.

Just for kicks and giggles:

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/6...enwheelal1.jpg

So Lotus must have used Rota as their manufacturer I guess. :rolleyes: I've seen pics of wheels from all different manufacturers broken. It happens.

Me personally? I think a nice set of 1k of original design Enkeis or OZ's is a good compromise for us mortals.

Nathan

These Motorsports apparently do fine with Rotas. Just curious why they use them when they have a rep of falling apart.

My issue is not as much with the fact that they are cheaper wheels it is the fact that they are PURPOSELY trying to make them look exactly like another respected wheel. Try and design something on your own.

As a designer it really annoys me when people steal other peoples designs. Just because it is an idea or concept not a tangible item that does not make it ok to steal it.

What really gets me is when people try to put the real wheels stickers and center caps in them to hide they bought cheap wheels. If all you care about is that they are affordable why go to the hassle of putting a different logo on them?

It's funny, back in the day people used to rock fake wheels on the down low. Now kids seem proud to be rocking their fake wheels.:sigh: