Scion FR-S Owner: Fed Up With Poor Quality Control [pics]
 

Hey guys - I hate to be the sterotypical guy who complains about things, but I really need to get something off my chest.

When I bought this Scion FR-S and plunked down my $27K of hard earned cash, I never forsaw the kind of glaring quality issues that I was in for.

My previous 2 cars were a 1992 Toyota Celica GT and a 2003 Camry SE. Both of the cars lasted forever and had relatively no problems whatsoever, so I'm definitely a loyal Toyota customer.

Having said that, it's a little frustrating when you buy a brand new car and it has more problems than your previous 2 "used cars". That's kinda where I'm at though.

1) My passenger-side taillight starts collecting condensation... not a big deal, but it's still kinda confusing how this could get past the "quality control" process. I don't even live in a particularly rainy area and this problem occured after about 1 month or so.

http://i.imgur.com/kdxRJ.jpg

So I go and get that taken care of (have to take off work cuz the dealership's service hours are less than ideal).

2) Almost a week after the passenger side light was fixed, my driver-side taillight starts showing the same symptoms. Condensation starts developing. (forgot to take a pic unfortunately).

So basically I need to take more time out of my busy schedule and make another trip out to the dealership.

3) Today I walk out to my car after getting some groceries and I notice that the tail light that they fixed is actually showing the same problems as the previous one! Unbelievable.

http://i.imgur.com/w8iun.jpg

At this point, I am beyond frustrated... it sucks that Toyota has loosened their quality control standards so much. These kind of mistakes should not be occurring on a brand new car - period.

There's also issues like the driver side door rattle, constantly finding bugs inside my car, and having water leak in through the weak door seals. All in all, I am just really disappointed. I really like this car in terms of performance, but it's becoming increasingly tough for me to overlook some glaring quality issues on Toyota's end.

If I bought a really cheap car for $15K, I guess I could accept "cutting corners" on quality, but I paid a significant amount of money for this car. It's just so frustrating that the quality couldn't be better. If I had to do again, I would have probably looked before I leaped.

edit: If anyone knows some contacts at Scion that I can reach out to about these issues, that would be great. Please drop me a PM.

i can certainly understand how you feel! f**k me once! shame on me!
f*8k me twice! shame on you!..i say give 'em another chance to make it right,and if they
f**k it up again! let "corporate" toyota know,and also,check your "lemon" laws in your state as it is possible you may qualify!..good luck!

Wouldnt it technicaly be a Subaru quality control since like 90% of the car is subaru and its built in a Subaru plant? And Subaru's had some quality control issues from what ive heard......

doesnt hurt to yell in their direction too :D

I'm waiting for both of mine to get fixed, hope I don't have any repeat issues.

I know the initial problem, as per Subaru, was due to the install, not the part. My guess is that the same problem that happened on the line happened at the dealership when they put the new one in. In the long run that's a design issue because if a worker cant install it like any other tail light without cracking the case the design is the issue, not the light.

Yes, exactly the point I was trying to make, but you made it in a much more articulate manner, haha.

I have no problem getting a part fixed, but when I am stuck in a "do loop" of constantly having to drive to the dealership and get the same problem fixed... especially after I just dropped $27K on a brand new car. That is a tough pill to swallow.

It makes me begin to think there are some inherent design flaws and that I'm stuck holding the bag. An unfortunate spot to be in.

I'm assuming that he went to the Toyota dealership for replacement.

Now we need to figure out who designed the tail light, Subaru or Toyota! :sigh:

I'm with you. My initial service was a day off of work as well because I didn't want them to reject anything without me being there to point out why things were issues. Upon return I would request something from the dealership, perhaps a X% on some OEM parts or something of the like. The would probably offer a free service, but we all know how well dealership service works out.

This is the first complaint i've heard of weak door seal causing water leaks, i had a strange odor in my car over the weekend when we had a lot of rain i wonder if that was the cause of it?

Wow, that sure must be frustrating. Taking the time out twice and the same problem. Having to take the time out for the 3rd time for the same problem... So frustrating...

I routinely find bugs in my car and I've had water seep in my car from taking it to the car wash.. so yea, it leads me to believe that the seals are sub-par.

Hmm, i couldn't find any moisture in mine but certainly had an odor it has gone away now that the rain is gone.

i agree! both are culpable!.car is built by subaru,however,
toyota is the "bigger'' player with more financial ''wallop",and for my dime,have to say,probably toyota would jump higher to effect a solution faster,based on their previous indiscretions,and their eagerness to "cleanse' themselves..just sayin''

you would only be stuck until such time toyota/suburau effects a solution
i feel your frustration,but in my view,give 'em a chance to make it right,failing that,let corporate know how displeased you are.

could possibly be "mold' forming after the rain! and drying up when it dried out!

hey well now you can get those snazzy pre redded out tails that look all fancy :):)

True, but at the end of the day Toyota should still be on the hook - after all their logo (Toyota, Scion) is on the car, they should enforce their quality control standards, regardless who makes the car.

Even thought I can't 100% feel your frustration, I do feel sorry for those who have to go through these problems. I trusted my gut instincts by waiting only b/c its a 1st year production and wasn't build by Toyota. Majority of the issues owners are facing point to Subaru.

This issue has been addressed by Moto to Toyota and based on his post, it should have been fixed. They can't really take into account the ones that have already went off the production line but I do believe they have this issue taken care of.

My advice to any car owner is to purchase a box of damprid hanging moisture absorbers. $7 at your local target walmart home depot lowes. My 2006 Sienna & Avalon , 2008 TC & the new FRS have had them since new. Yes it costs but the two older cars still smell new.

wow 1st world problems

True, my car is going in tomorrow to replace the drivers side taillight, not a big deal, but my car did smell musty after a big rain last night, i hope that it doesnt become a long term problem.....


Maybe the water leakage is the next "CEL" for this car.....still 1st world problems

Uhhh... Isn't condensation in the tail light a TSB or a recall? Just go back to the dealer and have them perform the TSB/recall.

I already did that... and the same problem is back again. That's kinda the issue if you catch my drift.

:sigh:

I see, said the blind man to the deaf guy.

No need to troll... it's actually a pretty antisocial and counterproductive activity.

Now i see the problem, taillight fixed then needs repair, thats frustrating.

Its not so much that they will replace it for free, its that you have to take time out of your day to keep bringing it back, im hoping mine is just oil changes and regular maintenance from here on.

I blame Subaru

Are you sure they replaced the tail light like they were supposed to the first time. Could be a crappy dealer trying to silicone it. It is a faulty part that cracks and needs to be replaced with an updated part per the TSB.

It's funny all these people blaming Subaru for everything.

Go to a Subaru forum and the loyalists have been bemoaning the design changes etc that have happened since the Toyota partnership started. It's all about perspective.

For what it's worth, Subaru has an excellent overall reliability track record. The older NA EJ's were bombproof (EJ22 especially). The headgasket issues were a problem but they were fixed. No worse than the sludge problems Toyota had in the 90's.

I know of many EJ's with 250k+ miles (Some up to 400k!) with no issues.

Let's face it. Sometimes cars have little foibles that take ironing out.

Nathan

:mad0260:

Dude seriously? The "sigh" was me "feeling your pain" because you already did the TSB and the persistent condensation sucks.

I swear... some people.

I start to wonder that this might be the reason. It might be a good idea to leave some kind of mark that they wouldn't know before bringing the car in for this issue.

Absolutely.

Also, the point of the TSB to remedy the problem. If the problem is addressed by the dealer but yields no remedy why wouldn't the owner return and tell the service manager, "Hey, you didn't fix what you're required to fix, please have do it again and do it right this time."?

OP: just call the dealership, you'd be amazed at what a phone call to the service manager will do.

Mine have already been replaced and not my 2nd set has started to leak too

The dealership checked for me and saw that the lights are back ordered badly

Also you should of expected this for a brand brand new car really. 1st gen car are always plagued with problems

Nope - it was indeed replaced. The tail light had a bunch of fog in it and then 20 minutes later they installed a brand new one.

I'm very confident that they fixed the initial problem in the first place when they installed the new tail light, but now the same issue is occurring with the new tail light that they installed. Not good.


Ah, bummer.. sorry to hear that you're in the same boat.

Don't. There's no reason to get bent out of shape about stuff like this as long as the warranty fixes it right up for free. The car isn't going to drive any differently. I find it as "annoying" as everyone else does, having to deal with these little niggles but I just see it as a chance to test my Subaru dealership on how good their customer service is.

With that said maybe I just have a different view on it because my dealership does take care of these things quickly.

This part is likely neither Toyota's nor Subaru's. Small components are made my third party manufacturers. I had similar problem with Mazda. My tail lights were replaced twice. And when condensation developed third time, and car was already out of warranty, I bought a tube of transparent silicon sealant and fill up all space between two pieces that make the body of tail light. They are supposed to be glued, but apparently glue is not good enough. I never had this problem ever since. I would suspect that Subaru uses the same supplier as Mazda do, hence the same problem.

^ Well, one of them likely designed it, and I think that's the flaw, not the quality of the part itself. Even if it were the part, the quality of the pieces used is determined by and approved by the company who designed it.

If I get a 2nd bad light Ill just uninstall on my own, dry, and silicon as you did.

Seriously, this is the lamest reply to a thread on a car forum. Every problem on this forum is a 1st world problem, and complaining about an issue with your new car doesn't mean you're an elitist wall street banker who sleeps on a mattress stuffed with $100s and has no compassion for the plight of the poor or downtrodden. Diaf.

Next time just post "-1" and save yourself the time spent on extra keystrokes, either way you'll be a ****.

1) Tail light condensation!!!
2) Use a vacation day to get this fixed.
3) Tail light condensation again!!!
4) Use another vacation day to get this fixed.
5) Tail light condensation AGAIN!!!
6) Use ANOTHER vacation day to get this fixed.

But you're still ok with it because it's "free"...
And you wouldn't feel bad at all spending your vacation days for this.

Is this what you're saying?

I'm not sure why you had to use up a vacation day for this...I just drop my car off at the dealership in the evening, grab the keys to a loaner Forester and go on my way.

Toyota did the design parts, so technically it was Toyota who designed the light to look that way. Wether or not that means it's their fault due to the visual design and the mounting points is the question. Subaru did all the engineering, mechanicals, and chassis. Toyota was mainly the interior, exterior and design work, if I remember correctly.