Strano Performance Parts 22mm Tubular front swaybar
 

Some you know I've been working on this, some of you might not. I've had a prototype bar done for a while, but have had issues with bushings so testing and fitting have been delayed.

Well, some good news. I've got the bar on the car and it fits great. I also think I've simply solved the bushing issue (at least for now). Testing starts tonight on the drive home, and I have a really good drive home for this.

The details: 22mm tubular bar. It weighs 4 pounds, which is 1 less than the stock 18mm bar I took off the car. I opted for this size because it's been clear to me that the 20mm bars aren't quite stiff enough, and I feel the 25mm bars like the new Eibach (and I do carry that brand as well) will be too much for autocross and track cars. Since they are selling it along with a 19mm rear bar (vs. the stock 14mm) it's clear the front is meant to try and balance that. If you find the rear of the car too loose, the last thing you want is more rear bar. And with the limited droop travel you don't really want more rear bar trying to pick up on, and unload the Torsen. Just today pulling in my shop I got stopped dead when the right rear came up and there I was with no drive..... Who wants to make that worse?

Anyway, that's where we stand. I do have a list of about 10 folks already wanting the bars, I haven't forgotten about you and based on what I find tonight balance wise I'm coming to work and putting a stocking order in tomorrow, or I'm going to change the wall thickness spec to make it stiffer or softer by one degree, *then* putting the order in. Either way, it's happening.

Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I'm not a big blogger, and I don't take a thousand pics, it's hard enough running this place without all that. But I'm happy to discuss things with you.

And please feel free to let anyone know who you think might be interested, autox, track-day guy, or street driver.

Awesome Sam! Any details on level of adjustability? Will there be any lateral locators? Also, how much stiffer than the stock solid 18mm would the bar be?
Looking forward to hearing the details!!

Totally in! :)

Let me know when you start stocking so I can call and place an order for one of these and a few other goodies. :happy0180:

I am starting non-adjustable. I felt it was more critical to get one out there than have to wait to develop endlinks, etc. Also I want to verify with others that this is were we want to be. I think it is, but in the end you guys have to decide. Making is adjustable if I end up having to make a size change wasn't worth the effort at this point in time, let alone the added cost to the customer with new endlinks. The way the bar points down between the tie-rod and control arm means that you aren't really effectively shortening the lever arm all that much, which is how adjustable bars work. I've seen the claims on the Eibach and how much they say it stiffens, I'm not sure I buy it. I don't know how they are coming up with their numbers to be honest.

We don't need lateral locators, the bend of the bar does that job. I've been running mine a few days now and nothing has moved. But if you want to run them, that will be no problem.

As for the relative stiffness. Well, I don't have a jig. And to be honest, I do these things more on experience and trial and error than on numbers. I have made a lot of bars for a lot of cars (big and small both). I've played extensively with 2nd gen MR2's and with bars of 20, 22 hollow and solid, and 24mm. I've messed with 15, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24 and 25mm bars (some hollow some solid) on the rear of F-bodies for years. Mustangs, same thing. 18, 20, etc. all the way to 27mm. I've developed a pretty good knack for taking what I feel and getting in the ballpark on the rate I want based on size and wall thickness. I stated elsewhere that I am actually going to move up one step on wall thickness, which is .032", from this prototype because I think that will be the best for a C-stock car and cars with rear stiff springs (I've not seen any lowering spring or coil-over set not be stiffer in the rear yet---though I don't do that on my own car).

Can't wait to see how well this bar does.

Sam, any chance you can ballpark pricing, if even in PM? I understand that it may not be set yet and I wont hold any bad feeling if it costs more than what you say now. Just planning some stuff, want to know what this will run me, generally.

can you comment on adding a stiffer front bar with OEM tires and stickier street tires (star specs)? what about having only sticker tires but on OEM suspension?

so when one of the rear wheel lifts off the ground, the wheel on the ground won't receive any power? i thought with a LSD, the wheel that is 'slipping' will transfer power to the other wheel. my knowledge about LSD is limited. can someone explain?

Everything he has talked about for testing has been on sticky tires @ayau RS3s, 245s I believe.

He mentioned it will be good for C-Stock cars which implies stock springs, 7" wide wheels

With a standard Torsen LSD, you need some load on both sides already to get power to both. If you get one airborne, thus no load, a Torsen will let the free wheel spin as there is no load.

good to know as i plan to race in c stock (street class) next summer.

if the stiffer bar was added to the front on a stock car with OEM tires, this would induce more understeer, correct? from what i understand, the front end becomes too stiff, and since the OEM tires aren't very sticky, there isn't enough load on the corner wheel to grip the road.

can someone comment on this bar's performance between the brz and the frs? the frs has softer front springs and stiffer rear. how does this bar affect the frs vs the brz? will it make the already stiffer front end brz understeer even more?

The stiffer bar will make the car more prone to understeer than stock, yes. I spent the whole weekend oversteering in my BRZ even on RS3s (215).

The bar may be a little overkill for stock tires but truthfully, if you're planning to run anything serious to replace the bar, do your tires first. Sam may feel different but that's my opinion. You'll get much better results from tires than any other mod, short of seat-time. Autocrossing on those crap-ass Primacy is just an exercise in futility when I tried. I was so mad haha

With -1.4 front Camber, barely any IMO, on skinny 215, I really dont feel understeer in the BRZ. As to results on the different springs in the two cars, I can't comment.

I'm shooting for under $200... I might throw the first ones out there for a bit less too, just to get some interest going. Haven't decided and need to see what my price point will be. Some details to work out there yet.

Ill be first in line if at all possible :) Just give me a date and time to call :P

The bar will work very much the same way across the board. I personally find the car a bit loose for my taste, even when it was stock. Adding better tires helps, because you have more grip at the end that tends to act up first, but it was still not as stable as I like.

Remember when we talk about CS and autocross and all, we want a stable car, but not one that understeers and pushes like a pig. Well, some folks think you can't have one without the other, but that's not true.

The way Torque Sensing diffs work (and that's what Torsen is, in fact that's where the name comes from) is that if you pick up the inside rear tire, you have no more limited slip.... the differential is now open. A Peg-legger. One-wheel-peeler.....

Not all diffs are like this, but Torsens are.

Can't say I diagree. Tires are huge... and adding grip does tighten the car up when being tossed and under power. But it actually loosens it up on turn in. That's the issue with tires that are less and less grippy. Turn in bite suffers, as does the behavior off the corner, with a lack of fun grip mid-corner to boot).

I figured you agreed on the tires first but didnt want to speak for you (with your business to sell these parts and all heheh)

Sign me up Sam! Any idea on how quick of a turnaround? Do you think you would have it to market within this year?

In really excited Sam. Let us know when you've got pricing released. I'm 100% interested!

Yes.

Awesome.

Definitely interested as well. Keep us posted Sam!

definitely interested as well, though it may be something for the first of the year autocross season is almost over and i hate buying new toys and cant use them

I'm interested!!!!

I want one. please keep me posted. Running CS or STX.
dennyfok@hotmail.com

More progress... I officially have a part number (still waiting on final pricing, etc). 8525. :) I even put it up on the site, though price and pics aren't there. http://www.stranoparts.com/partdetai...234&ModelID=37

dennyfok,

You can either send me your name and phone number and I'll add you to the list, or you can place an order at the link I posted in my last response (don't worry about the lack of price it's more of a pre-order thing as my website doesn't take payment anyway). :)

Sam,

Do you think the bar would benefit RTR CS? That is what I plan on running next year and I was wondering what your thoughts are. I would probably be running Star Specs or R-S3's.

Any inputs/thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I have been running in RTR CS with 215 RS3s and even with toe in out back, I have a lot of oversteer still. I dont want to litter Sam's bar thread with more CS/RTR talk so look for my posts in about 4 other CS or RTR or Alignment threads and reply there if you want more info on my setup.

Long story, yes, front bar is needed if you drive hard enough to be competitive.

Rear? You mean front, right?

I imagine a small bump to a WRX 16mm rear bar along with Sam's front bar wouldn't be too dramatic of a change and might work quite nicely.

Ooops! You're right, I made a typo. No rear bar for now haha

Fixed it... I dont know what mistake you're talking about :P

Depending on the class. IRC, stock class you can only add one bar.

Yeah, one bar only.

PM'd you Sam.

That's a very dramatic change. I don't think you want to try that until you get a front on. I don't want a bigger rear bar at this point myself.

I would only experiment with the WRX bar with your bar sitting on the front. I believe Bill Cook tried a bigger rear bar and the car was all over the place. I guess we'll see what happens and how the handling feels with yours on then I can always pick up a WRX rear for cheap to play. I understand that Stock only allows 1 bar but it still could be fun and not that hard to remove I'd imagine.

How hard is it to remove the front bar on these cars? My old G8 was a PIA to remove the front because you had to pry up power steering hoses and rotate the bar a billion times before it would come out.

Any comments on getting spring rates and damping right before tweaking with anti-sway bars?

The front bar is not bad. Really the biggest pain is taking off the underbody panels and all the bolts there. The bar itself is not hard (though it helps a lot if you have wobble extensions).

Depends. In stock class you cannot change springs at all. Damping doesn't control bar like it does spring rate. Bars aren't damped by shocks at all. Bars will change balance, but again shocks don't change actual balance of the car they change the rate at which things happen (like how fast the car generates roll and pitch, or takes a set).

I agree with Sam but maybe to phrase it a little different...

The purpose of the sway bar is to increase the corner spring rate during maneuvers where the two sides of the car (left/right) are functioning independently (rolling/pitching during cornering). If you plan to significantly increase the spring rates of the car, you will need to reevaluate the need for the sway bar based on your desire for the way the car handles. If you go to a very high spring rate, and leave a stiff bar, the car will be very likely to skip or hop over undulations during cornering, which is undesired. As you increase the spring stiffness, your need for a sway bar will decrease and you should reduce the size appropriately based on the cars attitude. If you do a modest spring rate change, chances are you will feel the car "handles better" with the bar + the springs because you didn't go very aggressive. From my understanding, Sam has sized this bar to be a modest rate increase, such that it can be used in a variety of applications... sounds like to be suitable for both the stock and ST crowds

More progress..... We have the bushing thing worked out on production, just need to get them made. Down to details now. I am hoping we have bars ready to roll by 10/19. Fingers Crossed.