Help me track down my braking problem :(
 

I drive a Honda Accord sedan.

Due to knowing nothing about cars and maintenance my car never had a brake bleed. So being a 2003 the caliper started sticking 18 months ago (winter 2009/2010).

I ended up replacing front calipers and all discs and pads. I also replaced fluid with ATE super blue.

A few months later I had a sticking caliper in the rear. One of the brake pads on the sticking caliper lost a small piece out of it. The piston went back in no problem and the boot was intact.

I replaced the rear calipers and kept the same pads.

So lately I have been having some juddering from the rear and the one side hotter than the other. I thought the caliper was sticking again and the rotor was warping. The other day it felt like it locked up and car was downshifting to maintain speed.

I took it apart yesterday and found out 1 side of the pad was COMPLETELY gone except for like a 2 inch square bit left. I put in a left over brake pad set from and ordered new pads and rotors for the rear.

My question is, why is this happening again? I am planning to replace the rear brake hose for that caliper. Do you think I should also replace the caliper again?

Sorry for the novel, I am just not sure what to do...

Grease the caliper slide pins? Adjust parking brake?

Are you taking it somewhere and having this work done? If you don't know much about cars, throwing parts at a problem can be a waste of time and money. Make sure you know why you're having these issues before spending money on parts you might not need.

I will regrease the pins, is there a specific brand you recommend? I greased the new calipers when I installed them last year.

There is a little play in the parking brake before the first click. I will adjust this too.

White lithium grease.

You should go to a brake specialist. When you know nothing, a car forum is the wrong place to get advice.

Yeah, don't use lithium or petroleum based greases. Most parts places have Permatex caliper specific lube in little packets at the counter, or you can get larger tubes. Silicone based and caliper specific are what you should look for, if it's even your slide pins.

Negative. There is actual brake lubricant designed for caliper slide pins. I used Kleen-Flo Eze-Slide when I put the TRD pads on the XRS.

"Eze-Slide is a silicone based brake lubricant specifically designed to withstand extreme operational temperatures associated with heavy braking. Prevents corrosion of sliding caliper pins to keep brake pads from wearing unevenly."

http://www.kleenflo.com/en/index.htm
Search under Brake Products

As I recall It didn't cost a lot either. It should be available at most parts stores.

I kinda had a problem like that. My main problem was brake pad didn't fit was it suppose, so I had to file down lil bit on the corner to fit perfectly. Ever since then I had not a problem w my car.

DW40. Fixes anything that squeaks.

(trying to alleviate the tension here)... Then again...

lol this thrad

Please don't hijack

I spoke to my friend who used to be a mechanic and he thinks it is probably what ichitaka said (pad does not fit perfect and may need to be filed slightly). He is going to look at it with me tomorrow

Let us know how it goes :thumbsup:

OK. After a lot of troubleshooting and not finding an issue we decided to go ahead and try replacing the caliper.

Replacing the caliper worked. But in replacing it and seeing how well it worked it is apparent the other rear caliper is on it's way out.

So my next question is, what would cause a pair of calipers to go bad after only a year?

rotor or not equal pressures could cause it

1. Heat

2. Weather - Depending on your location, some parts tend to wear our quicker than others in different areas. Example, warmer climates sometimes can dry out the rubber seals quicker on the piston or brake line, causing premature wear.

3. Inappropriate brake fluid used - Not very common but it has happened, where the brake fluid was not the rated DOT fluid, or when switched from a minimum of DOT3 fluid to a DOT4 and there was no fluid flush. Causing moisture to appear inline the brake system and result in premature wear.

4. Oxidation of the caliper itself can damage seals, not very common, but it has happened.

5. Dirt or Moister found its way in the brake line, either from just being old fluid, or accumulated some how.

6. Impact Damage.

Those are some reasons i can think of, I dunno if it fits your case. Or maybe those calipers are just crap. Iv turned away many defective non-oem calipers that had a shorter life span than OEM calipers, taken from places like Autozone, Napa, ect.... Napa does offer a lifetime warrente for certain parts, it might be something to look at if your buying a cheaper non-oem replacement caliper.

The calipers in the rear were Honda replacement parts. The caliper appear to function properly: slide pins lubricated and slide easily, hand brake functions properly, piston turns back in with minimal effort.

The caliper I bought today was from autozone and looks the same as the one I took off (same markings,, numbers on it).

I originally had brake problems because I never changed the fluid. When I replaced all the brake parts I bleed the whole system and put in ATE Super Blue fluid. I have bleed the system 2 times in past 18 months.

I am going to replace the other caliper and bleed the whole thing again tomorrow.

My location is NY. I hope this doesn't happen again in another year.

holy fuck you used ATE Super Blue fluid? ...that MIGHT just be your problem there. Super Blue is a DOT5+ fluid. Which means it has a higher boiling point, and the pressure is not suitable for extended use on a street car.

A lot of people say its ok for a street car, but iv seen plenty of brake failure of Daily driven cars due to that fluid.

Its not a bad fluid by all means, its awesome. But its use on regular street where you don't get up to good temps in the brake lines may cause wear.

I wonder if even your calipers are broken at all with that fluid still inline. I suggest bleed the brakes and switch to a DOT3/DOT4 fluid, and not a racing fluid.

But if you believe that the fluid is not the cause, then ignore my post.

I have the caliper I took off today. Before I return it for core would I see anything of benefit by pulling out the piston and seeing what it looks like?

Is there any reason why the rear calipers would go bad from the fluid but not the fronts?

Brake bias makes you work the front brakes more, which loads it up and generates a bit more heat than the rears.

My guess, If it really is indeed the fluid, your not getting good pressure in the rears because your not reaching optimal fluid temps from load. AKA your fronts brakes doing more work than they should.

Having unequal pressure for a long time could damage those rear calipers...

Hmm, that is interesting, I didn't know fluid could cause these problems. The bottle says DOT4 and that it meets/exceeds/compatible with DOT3/4.

What is a good high temp street fluid then?

DOT4 is rated at 446Degrees F, which is really more than you need on a street car especially an Accord Sedan with factory calipers.

Your ATE Super Blue is rated at 536Degrees F, which makes your brakes run too cold for daily use.

ATE Super Blue Racing Brake fluid is actually not officially DOT rated, but have similar qualities of DOT4 being a high temp and a polyethylene glycol base. The reason why it says compatible is because you can mix it with other brake fluids, ie; if you have DOT3 fluid in your system and your running low, you can add ATE Super Blue and it will slighty raise the boiling point but not degrade the quality of the fluid.

So any over the counter DOT4 brake fluid at the store should suffice, and give you good performance.

I guess I didn't know that Brake fluid had a minimum operating range as all the fluids only list maximum temps (well minimum boiling).

I will get this tomorrow then. http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...entifier=21051

Thanks for the help, at least I learn this now and not on the brz/frs

Yeah, DOT3 is good enough for DD car

Had same problem in my g20 sticky rear brakes changed pads, rotors, calipers turned out it was my brake master cylinder

I alternate between ATE Super Blue and Typ 200 and haven't had any problems with them on the street.

BTW, this is completely wrong. Fluid can boil at x temp, it's a hydraulic fluid that flows perfectly fine at ambiant temp.

I've used ATE Super Blue and Typ200 for almost 12 years, hundreds of thousands of miles, and a lot of Motul too. They are perfectly fine for street use and great for the track too.

Cool! iv known some people that have used high boiling brake fluid ATE also for several years with no problems. While others i have seen had braking issues because of the fluids. The cars varied from 1986 Honda accord to 2005 ford escort, and many others. And the problems have gone away for many of those cars by switching to a lower grade fluid ak DOT3/DOT4 standard.

You could be completely right that the fluid is not the problem, and that all brake calipers works at any normal hydraulic temp. And i am completely wrong. But from my personal experiences It does make me question the validity and application of that fluid in certain situations or for right conditions.

I can only give advice to others that iv seen and witnessed to do good, and not give harm to anyone. If its wrong, then no harm done.

Between myself and the other 50-60 track guys I talk to often, no one has ever had any issues like that. I usually change to super blue within 1,000 miles on all of my cars (because that's about how long I own them before tracking them the first time). So just on two of my current cars that's about 275,000 miles of super blue usage :)

ok... here's a question. What's the best procedure for changing out the brake fluid? Draining the master cylinder and refilling it with fluid of choice and then opening up the valves on the calipers to push through the new fluid?

I never drain the MC res first, out of laziness. I just bleed it through the system.. again being lazy. Or use a vacula :P

lol im the same way. But i guess its totally acceptable to just bleed through the system. My instructors never really pointed out any other more effective means of bleeding brake fluid besides using a vacuum box.

After replacing the calipers everything seems to be working normal again...

Did replacing your calipers solve the problem? If so was it temporary? What brought your attention to the master cylinder?

Somewhat yeah it wasnt sticking as much till i notice at home on my street its a little up hill when i parallel park to reverse i usually just put my foot on clutch and use the down hill momentum to back up, i notice its not as fast as its use to be, its like i have my parking brake on half way something is still holding it back, not noticable when fast or normal driving but got me thinking i changed almost all the major brake parts plus i rebleed the lines when i changed brake fluid so may as well change the master cylinder and fix ever since.

I hope everything turns out for the better this time around OP, and no more calipers breaking on you.

The car in your signature! which car is it?