Here we go with warranty crap...
 

And the runaround begins.

My car has 4600 miles on it. I've been smelling gear lube when hot (8-10+ mile) and getting some pretty bad road noise (though most of that I think is the Hankook's). But when turning the diff is definitely not happy either.

I dropped it at the dealer before I left for Solo Nationals. They dropped the fluid and it is "burnt". They don't know anything about the car, but they are ordering a whole new differential. But I was warned that if it happens again it won't be covered. Why? Because I have a Stranoparts.com sticker on the back window and the car is "modified" (KW's and the wheels and tires).

Beware of idiot field reps, and in that vain... I'm pulling any footage of my car off my website, I don't need the hassle.

Damn man, looks like the stock diff and fluid are not up to the task. You may want to change your diff fluid, i changed mine to veruspeed and no problems so far.

A new diff for burnt fluid? LOL

I wonder about mine. Mine has done 7 20 minutes sessions on track plus a lot of autocross

Yeah, that's my concern... Most miles are street, I did one day in the 60's and one in the mid 80's. And autocrossed it twice, that's it.

the fluid that came out of the diff was very dino smelling, and unusually red, like it was mixed in with ATF almost a dino synth mix? I have never seen a GL5 that pink looking.

I promptly refilled my diff with wesson corn oil colored Motul 300v 75w-90 and can say its quieter. I may even say that it feels like there is less drag but I assure you that is only in my head. its a gl4/gl5 that has no FM and lots of EP added

I have a feeling someone cheaped out on fluids in accounting, I've dropped shell and castrol from factory rear ends, this stuff is a weird fluid.

I've got a bottle of Mobil 1 75W-90 synthetic gear lubricant LS in my garage. Do you guys think its good for our diff? It meets API GL-5. Thanks.

Apparently they haven't seen their own commercials, or attended any of their on-track press days.

Thanks for the heads up. Sounds like a synthetic fluid change is a top priority!

I wonder what they will say when I bring mine in for the extended cranking CEL reflash. LOL! "Sir your car is modified," dealer. Me, "What are you insinuating, this is my fault? There's a TSB on this problem. The crank sensor, engine, CEL, and EMS is stock, so flash the ecu, send me on my way and if there is another TSB you're really inconveniencing me, I'm a busy person and I don't like wasting my time here at the dealer taking care of problems with my new car." LOL!

Change your dealer. In no way having custom wheels/suspension voids the diff warranty.

Welcome to dealing with Toyota/Scion. Sounds about on par with my past experiences when I owned Toyotas. it's not just individual dealerships, I've dealt with at least 5 different ones in the SE Michigan area and they are all ignorant, unfriendly, and useless. I will never, ever, EVER own a toyota/scion again because their customer service and ownership experience is piss fu$%ing poor. Good luck Sam, sorry to hear about the troubles.

I've never had an issue dealing with Subaru.

Sorry to hear that Sam. Now I'm thinking I need to swap the diff fluid this weekend.

Have not heard that before about Toyota. Heard nothing about horror stories about Subaru. Mainly about Sti's but still.

Would you get better service in Richmond - not like you want to go that far.

i use water for all my fluids.. works well on the transmission.. not so good for gas

There are horror stories from every make. Toyota just hasn't made a real performance vehicle for awhile...

Changing out the whole diff seems a little excessive but hey it's under warranty. It's a pretty beefy part for such a light and low powered car IMO.

There are a couple of diff covers with extra cooling fins and more capacity, plus Matt Monson (Guard Transmissions) knows a little about making them better.

Just one example, I bought a 97 celica off the used lot at a local dealership with a certified used car warranty. Less than 20k miles later it had developed a rod knock. When I took it in they said the catback exhaust on the car was what caused it... I told them that is B.S. and the muffler was on the car when they sold it to me anyway so there's no chance in hell I would be paying for them to fix it. After a few weeks of arguing with them I finally got everything rebuilt (they still charged me $500 for seals, gaskets and a timing belt replacement which i didnt authorize) and it took dealing with the owner of the dealership before it was resolved.

Thats just one of many stories.

would you share info - what is allowed to modify not to loose warranty?

I know dealer can't prevent you from changing the tyres, but hey, is that fair when you are rolling on 235\40\17 instead of "allowed" 215\45\17 and claiming that some suspension bushings fail - would the dealer point it's finger on the 235s blaming them and refusing with warranty bushings replacement?

Also have you ever faced situations that dealers hounding trackday photos to mark your car as a @sports event noticed, so writing you off the engine warranty?

Because of one smelly diff? Is there an epidemic of diff failures I haven't heard about?

It's a crap shoot. Nothing should really void warranty unless it is what actually caused the failure...Moss Magnusson act and all that crap...but a dealer could probably tie in any mod to suit there needs. If you mod, you're taking your chances...some dealers are better than others...

Sam,

Hopefully your diff was a one-off problem. For the rest of us, what does burnt diff fluid smell like?

Not really but i changed my fluid anyway to veruspeed just to be safe.

I bought it from McGeorge (we're friends and he buys his goodies from me, so I thought I should buy the car from him). But it's 7.5 hours down there. I will if I have to, but a big reason I bought the car was because I could get it from Rod, and there is a dealer in the next town for warranty stuff. *sigh*

Sounds like I need to check ours too and swap the lube out with something else. Maybe have a sample sent out for analysis. We have 4 autocrosses on ours with two to three drivers ever event.

This could be a fluke. Maybe a bad bearing, whatever. I don't know because they don't know and are literally swapping it based on fried fluid. They never even drove it anywhere. Dropped the fluid, it stinks, waited for the field service rep, and they are ordering it from the land of the Rising Sun..... Based on what beats me.

Of course they did notate it's a one time fix because it's "used in off-road competition", that's actually hand written on the RO. I guess stickers and coil-overs make it a RACECAR! Beware.

It smells like burnt azz.

Subie should think first, react later...

Sure hope it's a fluke. I have 86 autocross runs on it so far. Have only a handful of events left in the year.

We have had really good luck with the motul gear 300 and the amsoil gear oils. I think this should be a fluke given the hp and weight of these cars.

As for warranty work, they can only deny you if the modification caused the failure. However, they can tie things back to the failure in interesting ways. Also, don't be dumb about things. If you go in with autox or drag numbers on your car, or a big tach, they will start digging.

-Mike Paisan

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11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
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The first thing we did after break-in was fill the differential and transmission with Motul Gear 300 LS 75W-90 in the differential and Gear300 in the transmission. It is important to change the differential and transmission oils for the track. So far the summer temps this year have been unforgiving each time we hit the track. The car is a little less than 2 months old with 5900 miles on the odometer and 8+ trackdays thus far. The BRZ has been phenomenal thus far (of course regular maintenance is performed!).

On our personal vehicles (S2000 CR) we have experienced oil breakdown even after a partial trackday. Ambient temps range from 45º to 110º at our tracks. Shifting gears will be an issue and the diff oil will become somewhat sludgy if not addressed. Changing to quality synthetic gear oils reduces oil breakdown and prolongs the life of your gearbox and differential.

Hope you get all that sorted out soon. :thumbsup:

While this is a frequent reply on many forums, I don't think it's true. The purpose of Magnuson-Moss act was to allow replacement parts produced to OEM specs and it reads as such. If you put non-OEM spec parts they CAN deny warranty coverage. If you autox your car, most warranties these days have language that lets the deny warranty coverage. Few of the dealers/producers do this, but they certainly CAN. They only have to prove that some part caused the failure, if the said part was OEM-spec. Otherwise they don't have to.

I agree, if you have let's say a pulley on your car, or any modification to the ecu, drivetrain, or engine, even in the slightest amount, they will say that the car was not designed to handle the extra power and deny the claim.

Something like brakes or suspension could/would likely not get tied back to an engine or drivetrain issue.

Wheels can easily with the wrong offset be tied back to a bearing or bushing issue.

-Mike Paisan

http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/91072632.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/14...8/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/paisan/image/133406601.jpg http://www.whiteline.com.au/images/logos/perf1.jpg
11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

Increased grip from non-OEM tires though can be easily linked to levels of stress in the LSD, and I'm not even talking about 5k-rpm launches required with these cars to get decent times in autox with stickier tires.

Personally, I think the diff should be able to handle at least autox no-problem, but I'm not too sure that the bean-counters @Subaru/Toyota didn't go cheap on the diff fluid.
So, my personal advice for getting stuff fixed - keep quiet about autox (at least do not volunteer information w/o being asked) and change the OEM diff fluid anyway.

If you roll in on R-compound tires, yes, they could definitely hold that against you. If you roll in on regular summer tires, they can't say anything. If you are on R-compound tires at a dealership, then that's just pretty dumb IMO.

-Mike Paisan

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11+ Years Maintaining, Modifying and Educating TriState Subaru Enthusiasts.
Call directly as We carry almost every manufacturer now, so before you buy parts call us.
Like us on Facebook! | E-mail: sales@azpinstalls.com | 725 Fairfield Ave | Kenilworth, NJ 07033 | 908.248.AZP1 (2971) | T-1 Certified Amsoil Direct Jobber |AIM: AZP Installs
"Race Tested, Enthusiast Approved!"

I posted about this somewhere on here too. I've got 7400 miles on mine and 2 autocrosses. About 1000 miles ago my rearend really started grumbling in parking lots and tight/slow turns. Now it's doing it every time I start from a stop. Looks like I need to get this fixed asap. Any one have a for sure go-to fluid recommendation?

Edit:

Here's the thread I started a while back. Seems it's going to be common with a little hardish driving. I'm still on the stock tires too, so I don't think Sam should have any issues with them blaming it on stickier tires.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16769

I've got similar issues. There was quite a bit of metal on the magnet which is the reason for the change.

No I am not on r comps. But it seems my KWs and wheels and tires constitutes "highly modified". So if you have any diff issues get it on record now, it'll help me and you too down the road if the same lame brain attitude happnes to you too.

I am sure the coil overs and SCCA sticker led to a dimwit assumption that I'm driving like an asshole, and that I'm going to just accept the piss poor attitude toward a sports car guy who thought he bought a god damned SPORTS CAR.

Word...I don't want to just go up there and put the same crap fluid back in though.

I guess I better make sure I don't need a whole diff replaced like you though.

Just crazy to think of a Torsen as being this fragile. Let's hope these are just exceptions to the rules. All the other Torsens I have ever used for track/autox have been extremely stout.

Sorry to hear about the response from the dealer / manufacturer... Good to hear that they're covering it this time.

Here's my take:

The manufacturer can deny (whether right or wrong is up in the air) a part that fails even if there are absolutely no modifications on the car, believe it or not.

They can look for clues, such as the wear pattern on the tires (even if they are OEM), or they can question your replacement of the tires after only a short time from the last visit you came in for warranty work. Wear pattern = Hard cornering, etc.

They can take a closer look at the brake pad wear too (even if they are OEM).

And lastly, they may replace the part that has faltered the first time (as a good gesture)... But if it happens again (repeatedly), they may become very, very stubborn in covering you.

They will blame 'abusive driving' as the cause, even if the car was advertised and meant for enthusiastic driving pleasure.

After everything is said and done, I feel all manufacturers can become stubborn (and the regional tech representing your area tries to help them in every way). They are a business and they are going to analyze in detail before paying any additional cost to them.

And I'm not saying that I'd agree with it happening to me... But in my own business, I would react the same way (if I want to survive and make a fair living). What goes around, comes around... Even if it's bitter for me to swallow when it comes back around.

I can only hope Toyota will not challenge me like this.

While I know what you're saying is true... they are walking a fine line.

If it ends up shaking out that these cars are ultimately unreliable for these types of activities, and the manufacturer is unwilling to correct issues for their target audience this car will flop in a hurry. Regardless how hot they were on the initial launch.

I know if I start having these kinds of problems and my budget starts getting eaten up replacing parts because Subaru is unwilling to work with me, this car will have a for-sale sign on it in a hurry and I'll find something else to run.