Is toyota coming back?
 

I remember back in 2005, that's when they killed off anything remotely sporty. They killed the Celica and the MR2, leaving us with the Corolla XRS, then in 2010 they killed that off as well. The Corolla/Camry got worse in that time, and all Toyota cared about was selling more prii to people who wanna seem Eco friendly and drive 10 mph slower than everyone else...yeah I hate hybrids. Roadmaps looked bleak. Every now and then Toyota would tease us with concept cars but not put out...then the Is-F came, followed shortly by the LF-A and the FT86. At first I was like meh another concept but then more and more came out about this car and it gave me hope that the Toyota I used to know from the 90's isn't completely dead due to peak oil and money hungry shareholders. Is the Toyota we know and love coming back or is Toyota just trying to keep us happy during the endless waves of crap overpriced hybrids that are going to be put out by car manufacturers so people can seem cool. Lets face it if your a car lover and under the age of 18 now your future looks dim. I truly hope I die before 2070. I don't want to see what cars look like then. FML

Yes, we are on the tip of the iceberg regarding hybrids.
I guess diesel is the next big thing for your country though.

Honestly I wont know how to answer this question until the production version is released and we have the information on which companies contributed what. For now I should assume a fair 50-50, so they presumably are making half a come back, haha. Time will tell.

Don't worry about Toyota being the boring one, Honda has gone soft as well. Their biggest thing now is the cr-z. Say no more....

Blame eco-bandwagon jumpers.

Too early to tell. I want them to build a RWD sports car from the FR-S platform that's a couple inches bigger(Not bigger than a GC but close) with the V6 from the IS350

Hippies aren't the problem. True hippies (atleast the ones I know) hate hybrids because the processes involved with making the batteries are so damaging to the environment. The people who buy hybrids are eco-bandwaggon jumpers who wanna have their eco-swagg. Real environmentalists hate these people because they undermine environmentalism and when the next big thing corporate america wants to rape comes along people will forget about their prius. What we need is a renewable fuel source that doesn't eat into our food supply that is capable of fueling the world, not shoving hybrids down everyones throats. I mean who LIKES hybrids anyway?

Lotus Evora?

I'm all for running cars off hydrogen. And the processes for getting it out of the water keep getting better and better.

2005? They died in after 1995 IMO.

:word: I love that car!!!!!

Every generation thinks that the end is nigh in terms of exciting automotive products and every generation is wrong.

However, the automotive market is cyclic....for a long time american made vehicles were king, popular, everybody loved them....then imports took over in the late 60's to the 2000's, and now american vehicles are coming back. It's just one of those strange cyclic patterns that happens with people.

Apart from the occasional awesome car (hoping that the FT-86 is one but not convinced) I don't think Toyota is going to come back for a good long while. The quality is slipping, the styling is going down the drain, and cost cutting in the name of greater market share has reduced quality and competitiveness. (that's why things cycle....you can't stay on top forever)

Things will get worse before they get better.

And for those people who think that hybrids and fuel economy spell the doom of exciting cars: look around. There's more exciting cars now than at any time in automotive history. Hybrids and diesels aren't going to change that. Either is engine downsizing.

Supra wasn't a fun car to you? That didnt stop production for years after, even if it was only 3 years in the US and 7 in other countries.

Some people might not like the Supra because of its weight/size, but I love it. There are folks who thinks that 3000+ lbs spells terrible performer(Handling).

IMHO, all of the main Japanese manufactures fell off in the late 90's. This was most due to the EPA's LEV (Low Emission Vehicles) in the mid to late 90's which caused a whole new design shift. Since the US wasn't about fast cars w/turbos, this would heavily impact sales in Japan.

Now it seems as though technology has caught up and we are currently in a position to manufacture a good sports car while keeping emissions down.

Example would be Fuel Saving Technology on many of the V8 equipped cars. GM had that idea back in the 70's fuel crisis but it wasn't quite successful.

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/article...on-Saves-Fuel/

This is definitely a nice step for Toyota who seemed to put their best foot forward before the rest. Hopefully this will help introduce or resurrect some of the ol skool favorites.

Blame gasoline prices. If 87octane was still at $1.00 a gallon I guarantee no one's talking about fuel economy and cutting back on the use of fossil fuels.

Quality is falling, but just barely. Lexus is still head and shoulders above every other brand according to JDP&A and Toyota is only behind Honda/Acura, MB, Mazda, and Porsche. (Mazda is surprising) American companies are still pulling up the rear. Hyundai leap frogged about a dozen companies and is now ahead of Subaru, BMW, Chevy, Volvo, Lincoln, Audi, Jaguar, Nissan and Ford.

As far as modern exciting cars go, I respectfully disagree. Which cars are you referring to? The Eastern Asian automakers have killed off more excitement than they've added. Currently we have 370z, GTR, IS-F, tC(meh), Evo, Mazdaspeed 3, Genesis Coupe, WRX/STI. I guess you could add the LFA despite it's unattainableness(word?) and the future of the Evo is grim. In the 90's/00's we had 240S, 300Z, Skyline, MR2, Celica, Supra, Eclipse, Evo, 3000GT, RX7, WRX/STI, Integra, Prelude, NSX. And I'm sure I'm leaving a few out.

Even with the addition of a couple new names, like the GC, we're getting gimped versions. If it wasn't for Hyundai's vision of 50mpg across the board by 2025 they would've already slapped the 420hp v8 in the GC. Mazda would probably already have an RX7 successor out if it wasn't for it's lack of fuel economy. Honda is offering the CR-Z? Far from exciting. One minute Mitsubishi is discontinuing the Evo name, the next they're talking about making it a hybrid or diesel-turbo platform. Toyota had two paths they could've taken to add excitement to their lineup. They took the less aggressive, more economical one. I don't know about you, but bringing back the Supra would've been a hell of a lot more exciting for me than the FT86 is. Fuel economy is definitely cutting the legs out from under the automakers.

Uh no. The brainwashed hippies that want to kill everybody maybe. There are studies that show that the consumption of Oil over a car's lifetime far exceeds the emissions/energy consumption of manufacturing the whole car. The production of batteries pays for itself in reducing Oil consumption which is the biggest offender. Except for the Prius and the HSD cars and the mild Honda hybrids most of the hybrid cars are performance hybrids and get little or no MPG improvement over their ICE only versions.

Not a big fan of hybrids myself since you can get the most of the MPG by just using a similar displacement engine with a turbo and taller gearing. As it is cheaper upfront it pays off faster and it doesn't require eliminating the standard gearbox to get higher MPG numbers. Most people could greatly reduce their Oil consumption if they switched from DD a truck or SUV to something more efficient.

And I doubt that Toyota is going to return to their "glory days" with just one or two cars(if the hybrid RR car pans out). Especially considering this car is half Subaru (no hate). It's going to take revamping some of the soft autocars to get something like that. I'd call it a minor renaissance event if anything.

I didn't dislike the Supra, but I didn't love the Supra. I personally didn't find it engaging enough to love it. For me, once the MR2 died (in the US).. so did Toyota.

Wow. The Supra is still my all time favorite car. I would give both of my cars, and a baby toe for a low mileage 98 Black on Black Supra.

I've driven that car and it is nice indeed. If Lotus could sort out their horrifying build quality issues, and forget about supercar pricing, they could really be in the game. But it appears that that is not going to happen. It appears that they are hell bent on being empire builders, not car builders.


The FT-86 could be a very competitive car. I just don't know how it's going to have quality build and parts at a proposed $23-26k price point.


As for Toyota as a 21 century car maker: They lost everything they had when they went for sales above all else. Being the largest car manufacturer in the world isn't going to count for much ("GM, call your office!") if the cars are caca-doodoo. Since they are Japanese, maybe they will come to their senses, and recovery from their American money fever, and remember their pride, and come back from the edge.

See now, this is easy, all I have to do is change your statement to:

And suddenly it makes sense. The rest of the car is probably going to be cheap to make the whole car affordable. I don't think they will cut reliability but they're leaning more on the quality of the Subaru Gunma plant for the actual building instead of a Toyota plant.

True that the automotive cycle coincides with economic cycles (after all, the 90s Japanese cars like the Supra coincided with the bubble).

But the emphasis fuel-efficient cars isn't a cycle--it's a Federal mandate. With Obama and the EPA pushing for higher and higher MPG standards, car companies can't afford to release gas-guzzling sports cars, regardless of the economic climate.

@ Allch: I get your point (I think). Perhaps I was thinking of the s2k. Perhaps I was thinking that, because it was never intended to be anything other than a halo car, Honda was prepared to lose some money on it in the pursuit of quality and performance. But I don't think Toyota wants to lose any moolah on the FT-86.

_Car_ magazine has a piece on the UK market Mugen CR-Z. Just FYI. But, like I've said before, it's hard for me to put "sports car" and "front wheel drive" in the same sentence, so CR-Z doesn't enter into it, for me.


It might be a very different car world in a few years. Audi-VW-Porsche are developing a shared platform for several flat-4 roadsters. Mazda is lightening up the MX-5. Kia or Hyundai may do something. You never know.

You got it!

And I already saw the Mugen CR-Z. As for the CR-Z it's a typical Honda, where stock is usually crap. The S2000/S2200(lol) was an exception.

Toyota fanboi huh? Ferrari F40 for me.

Ferrari fanboi huh?
:bonk:

Wait a second, you aren't trying to compare the Supra to a F40 are you? I'm not a Ferrari fanboi at all, if anything I align more with Porsche. However the F40 is one of the greatest pure drivers cars ever made and many say the greatest supercar ever. Unfortunately I'll never have the chance to own/drive one. But that would be my pick if we are picking old cars.

Definitely a good choice. An italian v8 with the sonorous sounds of forced induction :wub:

But read your last sentence. That's your pick, not everyones. I think a Ferrari F40 would put an equally big grin on my face while driving it as the Supra, FD rx7, R33 skyline, etc etc. It's really just down to preference.

Although I might be smiling a bit bigger in the F40 due to the looks on everybody's face as I drive by...

Big time, as you can imagine it's been a rough decade and a half for me. lol

Toyota coming back to the sports car enthusiast is contingent upon the success of the FR-S. IMHO

I second that.

It was around about the turn of the millenium (1999-2002) that Toyota globally killed of the MR2 Turbo, Celica GT4 and the Supra.

At the same time Nissan killed off the R34 Skyline GTR, the Silvia (200SX) and the Fairlady (300ZX).

Mazda killed off the RX7.

It was like suddenly the Japanese branded the Turbo the Devil and got rid of them as quick as they could. Perhaps these cars dont sit well next to their Eco-Friendly models?

Except for Mitsubishi and Subaru......

In North America those were more of a later revival. We didn't get the Evo until the 8 and the first WRX we got were GD chassis.

yeah, but they still make them!!!

Pity about Mitsubishi going to kill off the evo :(

Having owned several sports cars, which include 03 cobra, 91 mr2 turbo, and a 94 supra (among others)
I have to agree that the best car I've owned is the mkiv. It was a stunning car to look at (imo) and once that single spooled up, theres no feeling like it.

I still mole it around my head about getting another one. It was my dream car as a little kid.

Yeah, it was like a clean slate as soon as they realized the Y2K bug was a joke. It's a shame because it was like each Japanese manufacture had their own powerful car and it was sort of a battle to see who can build the nicest looking, fastest, best handling vehicle.

Now we sort of know how the young adults felt in the 70's when the muscle car era died and in came the small gas saving compacts.

+1 Those came later.

In NA, Mitsubishi ended the 3000GT VR4, Galant VR4 and Eclipse turbos in the end of the 90's. The Starion was cool but ended in the 80's.

The thing is, we have to understand that Sports Cars are still a niche market. R&D are mighty expensive for these cars and unless they sell it for premium price they dont make profit.

When you are on the market for a 35K+ USD (80K+ AUD) sports cars, the competition becomes stiff, since it opens up your budget to the European cars like the S3, S4, M3 etc.

We have to understand, market researchers are employed heavily by ALL OEMs, sadly the big wig executive would rather listen to the Accountants than the Engineers when designing their new cars....

Thats the main truth about why Japanese Sports Cars just suddenly got killed off... sure we can argue for Nissan, Subaru and Mitsubishi, with their late 90s early 2000s assault (GTR R34/ 350Z, WRX, EVO etc). But you notice that apart from Nissan's cars, the other 2 are treated by their owners as Sedan/Sports cars.... practical performance cars... again Nissan is not the rule, they are the exception.

I think about 2 years ago thats when the Japanese started designing their new sports cars, I mean take a look at the engines concepted in the last 5 years. Toyota, Honda, Nissan etc have GOOD engines to base their new sports cars on but, the GFC killed off a few concepts...


In the next 5 years, I think depending on how long this GFC II goes for, we will see a couple more sports cars from Toyota and Honda. Some people dont respect the Hybrid Engine possibilities, but a HV sports car is exactly what would make sense right about now. Fuel efficient performers, whom ever can develop that car within an affordable range would STEAL a big chunk of the market.

I think the next "Supra" and "MR2" can be HV, HV system paired with 3.5 Liter V6... we looking at 300hp and HUGE torque, I'm talking 400+ Nm from V6 non turbo.... the MR2... well they seriously just need to update the 3SGTE.... these are the perfect engines for the MR2 size and mid rear setup car, again mate it with a HV system, get around 250-260hp and 400+ Nm torque, these are rockets!!

I think Toyota will eventually become sporty again, their president has admitted he wants sports cars again, not to mention he test drove the LFA and FT86 and gave feedbacks.... the guy is too much of a REV head not to influence sports cars back to his company.

You're not alone, brotha.

As for hybrids and all that stuff, it is govt regulation that is pushing the drive to mpgs. If you don't like it, then maybe you should voice your opinion to your elected officials. Fossil fuels have always been an issue, and in my lifetime we will make the switch to hydrogen cars. Until then, or at least until the next rapid ramp up in emission regulations in 2016, I'm going to enjoy me some internal combustion-engined cars.

As far as I'm concerned, Toyota has a lot of time and money invested in the FT86 (FR-S). While initially I questioned it being a Scion, I can see how it matches well with the culture of modifying your car to suit you. I don't need a 500hp monster, but I do want a light balanced car with plenty of power, and a rwd layout. I can't wait to see this thing and drive it for the first time in anger!! :thumbup:

I think Akio Toyoda is the real deal. Considering the rapid change to sportiness that too place after he took the reins, I can't imagine that Toyota isn't going to stay in the top 5 in the rankings of us automakers. Yes, they got away from the formula that made me originally become a fan, but it seems like they've learned that they can continue to offer cars that sell in low volumes because they are a benefit to the brand-name. Take the FJ Cruiser as an example- in off road communities, they've been amazed that the FJ is still around for sale. It sells in Mlle volume, but is an iconic car for Toyota that represents the brand and attracts people to the brand. I think cars like the LF-A, IS-F, And Ft86 have the same effect... And demand the same type of commitment to the haul as FJ. Stick with it Toyota, it's the right thing todo, even if you aren't sellin 200k copies in NA.