2nd gear synchro FIX- MT owners read this thread
 

I have solved my 2nd gear cold synchro issue 110% :happyanim:
Basically, if I had the money I would treat all forum members to 3 quarts of this on my dime.

You would ALL offer to pay me back

and then buy me beers

yes plural why? :happy0180:

cause youre gonna buy 3 quarts of this

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...er=83220309031

and then you too can be in aisin tranny NIRVANA, like me

read on to understand my method of oil choice, and really tho the proof is in the pudding.

This is BMW LL tranny fluid, its their factory lifetime fill, and its pretty high end stuff that goes into my M3

I have somewhat of a hobby with oils, and chemicals in general, my father is a chemist so maybe that helps you understand where I am coming from

changing fluids is easy, whats more interesting is the choice of fluids

page 51 of service manual lists MT gear oil as 75w-85 and diff lube as 75w-90

I found a few oils that are to spec:

the pennzoil syncromesh vs the pentosin MTF2 vs the redline MTL90 vs Castrol SMX-S

the correct kinematic viscosity of a 85 weight oil is somewhere between 7 and 14

SAE service level defines targets for a 75W gear oil to be= 4.1@ 100F and 7.0 based on that and the fact that folks using MT90 and folks using syncromesh by pennzoil are reporting better than MTL results

there is a rumor that the GM syncromesh IS pentosin, but I dunno

this led me to believe the MTL90 some guys on this forum may be my second choice so I did a little experiment that cost me $60

I dont put pennzoil in any of my cars

here is a list of their salient characteristics

penn synch * pentomtl 7580 * mtl90 7590 * smx-s

KV @100 * 9.08 * 7.7 * 15.6 * 11.9
KV @ 40 * 41.6 * 38.3 * 90 * 64.4
VI * 208 * 177 * 185 * 183

I dunno the weight of the syncromesh, and the smx is a 75w85
I had hoped better for the smx and the redline but they too are thick when cold

FAIL

SAE service level defines target KV for 75W gear oil to be= 4.1@ 100F and 7.0 based on that and the fact that folks using MT90 and folks using syncromesh by pennzoil are reporting better MTL results
see
http://www.finalube.com/reference_ma...Categories.htm
Pentosin is the lightest of oils, of the four above

I use their line up of oils in Porsche audi and BMW products in my garage

Its great to put something fresh in there, even better to know why it worked better, and less of a dice roll if you really know whats different about them.

I am pleased to report Second Gear Syncho shifts like butter when cold. Come drive my car if you have any doubts.

I'm also looking for data on BG syncromesh 75w85, also a gl3
seems folks have used that in ASIN trannys with much success, its cheaper. But you do get what you pay for.

sometimes, syncros dont like afluid thats too slippery, sometimes they do. I

the diy on most manual trannys and diff are the same:
locate drain and fill holes, usually a largeish hex or a 1/2 or 3/8 square drive
open fill first
then drain
reseal drain
refill till it oozes out of fill hole
seal it up
pat yerself on back
drive
drink a beer


I also considered http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=140&pcid=7
its thick but not as thick as the MT-90, this one is specifically to address the cold synchro symptoms
BUT its a bit thick ish, and performs alot like the MT-90, but it MAY be an improvement

then...
surfing the net, I found this:

APPARENTLY PONTIAC USES AISIN TRANNYS
Here's some more for you... (from GM Techlink)

Quote:
Using the incorrect type of transmission fluid in Aisin manual transmissions may affect the sealing ability of the seals. An incorrect type of sealer may not be compatible with the transmission fluid or may not have the correct characteristics for sealing the affected components.

TIP: Refer to SI documentation for correct sealers, adhesives, lubricants and fill quantity for each transmission you service.

Aisin manual transmissions require the use of p/n 89021806 - Fluid, m/trns 75W-90 GL-3, 1QT (89021807, 1L, in Canada). The use of the correct fluid is required to assure the desired shift characteristics and compatibility with adhesive sealers.

RTV is the only sealer that is compatible with this fluid. The use of anaerobic sealers on Aisin manual transmissions is not recommended.


SO...

I looked up 89021806 and found its a GM GL3 fluid, seeking its KV @40 and 100 degrees

I'm trying to find its specs, but no luck yet.

What I have found tho is that the pennzoils syncromesh is NOT the same stuff as the GM syncromesh
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1421809

the history that led me to this finding is here:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...light=pentosin

If anyone local wants to drive mine, g'head. Proof is in the pudding. Now thats what my syncrho now feels like, smooth like a ball bearing, in pudding.

Oils are a long way from my expertise. Can you summarise in layman's terms?

That was a little hard to follow... You decided on the Pentosin MTF-2 75w-80 because of it's kinematic viscosity and viscosity index are within spec of a 75w-85, but stays on the thinner end of the spectrum than the others you chose for comparison. Correct?

Its no surprise the cold shifting is better at low temps being so much thinner, but it's also thinner at high temps. This might be fine for a normal daily driver. I'm more concerned with how it handles extended high loads and heat buildup from something like track use.

My M3 tracks VERY well...

Ok. So basically an oil that is within spec but thinner when cold will help cold shifting. Makes sense.

How does your recommended oil go in the Aisin g/box with fast and hard shifts? Ive used oils in the past that were great for cold or normal slowish shifts but would grind on quick shifts. Redline claim this is because they are too slippery for the synchro rings to do their job. Again this seems to make sense and switching to their MTL in my application fixed this and still retained the good cold and slow shift feel but all boxes are different.

How is this stuff with yellow metals? Synchromesh eats brass which helps in the short term but may cause issues long term in transmissions with thin brass synchros.

Seems like this is just a quick fix, only time will tell the tale

Return email from Pennzoil:

Dear *Name-Omitted*,

The synchromesh fluid that Pennzoil-Quaker State makes meets the warranty and performance requirements of the GM 12345349 part number for your application. It is not the same fluid that is in the GM synchromesh fluid package, so you can make your purchase choice based on price if you choose.

If you have any other questions or comments, please contact us at 1-800-458-4998, M thru F, 8am to 5pm, CST.


It works brilliantly, has in all my cars. I have no cold-2nd-gear anything and wouldn't care if I did. I have little concern about transmission when it's cold, only when it's hot because I'm no dumbass and I don't drive my car hard when fluids are cold.

Yes, It's yellow metal friendly,no sulphur, has some EP and FM that's got great hot wear and shear protection while having a little higher metal content than most jap stuff like idemitsu mtf which is also highly regarded and sold as Honda. This stuff surpasses gm penny oil and redline in each and every chemical property

Plus my experience with redline is its great if you chang you're tranny fluid every 5000miles. Otherwise there are packages that do offer better protection than redline

If their base stocks for motor oil are any indication of the rest of their line up, they won't find their products in in my manual tranny!

Subaru factory oil that came in out motors is also idemitsu. Good stuff.

I have some nice machinery and do not take chances. You can research for yourself, and choose to do what you want. Once I dropped the factory fill it was piss thin btw. It was dirty and smelled like cheap Dino mtf. I been working with cars long enough to not go putting a gl5 in, not about to ruin a 4800 getrag tranny. Trust me, I would not be throwing 20 bucks a quart into an aisin unless I had a clue...some times it's fun to exceed manufacturer specs, ymmv

Pennzoil is crap, sorry. I hear this and that, but unless you send your shit in for oil analysis going on what you read or hear is iffy.

Should you at a minimum dump your factory fill put it aside and refill with oil that's better? Rethink refilling with that factory fill again? Rethink running the factory fill? Or are you fine with it?

Then again I'm the guy who dumps my factory motor oil early and refills with a cocktail of mos2 moly and Dino plus subie synth, I also picked up Toyota rocking filters...

Yes, It's yellow metal friendly,no sulphur, has some EP and FM that's got great hot wear and shear protection while having a little higher metal content than most jap stuff like idemitsu mtf which is also highly regarded and sold as Honda. This stuff surpasses gm penny oil and redline in each and every chemical property

Plus my experience with redline is its great if you chang you're tranny fluid every 5000miles. Otherwise there are packages that do offer better protection than redline

If their base stocks for motor oil are any indication of the rest of their line up, they won't find their products in in my manual tranny!

Subaru factory oil that came in out motors is also idemitsu. Good stuff.

I have some nice machinery and do not take chances. You can research for yourself, and choose to do what you want. Once I dropped the factory fill it was piss thin btw. It was dirty and smelled like cheap Dino mtf. I been working with cars long enough to not go putting a gl5 in, not about to ruin a 4800 getrag tranny. Trust me, I would not be throwing 20 bucks a quart into an aisin unless I had a clue...some times it's fun to exceed manufacturer specs, ymmv

Pennzoil is crap, sorry. I hear this and that, but unless you send your shit in for oil analysis going on what you read or hear is iffy.

Should you at a minimum dump your factory fill put it aside and refill with oil that's better? Rethink refilling with that factory fill again? Rethink running the factory fill? Or are you fine with it?

Then again I'm the guy who dumps my factory motor oil early and refills with a cocktail of mos2 moly and Dino plus subie synth, I also picked up Toyo roki filters...

Pentosin Mtf2 is factory fill for Benz Audi vw bmw etc

What would make you think it's temporary? If you know how a synchronizer inbetween gears works, then it's either spinning to speed quickly enough or not. Viscosity can impact the rate of synchro spin up...significantly.

Nobody is doubting your experience and technical knowledge, but it's hard to just go by someone's opinion when they say "I know what I'm doing, trust me" on the internet, especially when the numbers are notably different with some miracle product designed (or factory installed) for a different car.

Engine and tranny oils are a serious point of contention amongst nearly every car enthusiast, tuner, and manufacturer where everyone seems to know best, and everyone else is wrong, and everyone has reasons why. I know Aisin transmissions are no mystery, but due to all the the paranoia and elitism I'd also like to see some more supporting data and test results proving that this oil (or any other, for that matter) is superior.

And a side note, I thought Redline's base stocks were fine?

I hear ya.

Drive mine. what a difference. Butter as opposed to a rifle bolt action.

I truly hated and dreaded second gear with cold fluid. Not anymore

If you think it will hurt to try it don't do it. Live with notchy second...

This is also my biggest dislike about my BRZ. Second gear is a royal pain in the butt until the trans gets some heat into it. Was not looking forward to fall and winter since it would take even longer to get some heat into the trans.

I'm going to take your word and order some of this Pentosin MTF2. It does meet all the specs as stated by Subaru.

How many quarts does the tranny take?

Its right about 3 quarts. Just fill until oil is level with fill hole.

How cold are we talking about? Like <60F or <40F? I ask because even in the winter here it only gets down to maybe 50F or so, and that's with the windchill. If this syncro problem is an issue at COLD temps, then I won't worry about it (for myself at least) until I go to a colder climate, but if this is an issue at COOL temps, I may have to remember this for the winter, when it arrives.

No guys you dont understand, its better in EVERY gear, not just second.
You want the BRZ to feel as nice as the BMW stick feels. herein lies the answer.

There is no warm up anymore, just like there isnt on other cars in my stable.

It has magically made 2nd gear a complete non issue.

Just one of you try it, and post your results here

I have run the pentosin hard, and can attest to its heat cycling capacity. BMW doesnt fill their M cars with crap, I am dissappointed in Subaru/scion for their choice of oils, clearly spreadsheet driven since they know most enthusiasts will change that out asap.

Today I do the rear diff, using a Motul 300. yum.

So you recommend Motul 300 for the rear diff. What about for AT's? What do you recommend? :thanks:

I'm little concern with using 75W-80 when the manual says to use 75W-90 for the tranny. Would it be too thin for track use?

"Full of Hot Air."

It's all so clear now.

as a driver of primarily AISIN-equipped cars, I can say that never has one of my cars been run on GM Synchro, Penn, nor this Pentosin.

Without a proper UOA for any of the oils discussed, its somewhat pointless to compare them as to whats best for our cars. Im hoping someone with more miles than me will step up and see what blackstone labs has to say about usage of different oils in this transmission.

you dont actually actually think..

because an oil is rated thicker it protects better? this is not 1975 anymore, oil tech has changed No I dont mean to be rude but its really not that simple, unless you elect to see it that way

you car runs 0w-20, and by your logic you'd need thicker oil for real protection right? many 0w-20s out protect 5w-20 and ow and 5w-30s too
now there are guys on this board using valvoline and castrol titanium. sorry that way out of spec-nothing could be further from our subie or toyota oils, but if you go by SAE they think they are using the right oil. FAIL. thats 0w-20 but the wrong oil for this motor, no moly, no zinc, nothing.

Sorry high tech oils protect better than lower tech oils and so ling as youre within Kinematic v range, going by SAE rating alone is plain noob.

all you skeptics-look I dont balme you, if I did not know better or understand oils, I'd not use a oil that at first glance appears to not be right , you should keep your factory fill, and enjoy 2nd gear as you have it. meanwhile bing yourself up to speed on what this oil is suppose to do. this isnt a hypoid gear application. learn and dig deeper into understanding the lube!

I will enjoy mine my way. wait till you find the unobtanium toyota then let me know if fresh factory fill is better. I'm a betting man, I bet it wont be.

as they say YMMV, until you understand what EP and FM additives are and the difference between ester and hydro based oils...

I will both stand by my research and finding and usage of this superior 80weight oil, and enjoy the benefits of my aisin shifting as sooth as the getrags I own. and that says volumes, for those of you who own those trannys too.

in this instance a UOA is useless, what you need is a VOA of pento vs the factory fill. youre not trying to match the factory formula, youre trying to exceed its wear and flow properties, and I have.

/end of thread, and yeah youre welcome to those of you who try it or buy it.

what about Red line Lightweight Shockproof?

http://www.redlineoil.com/content/im...roducts/43.png
this stuff is really popular down here in Puerto Rico for evo sti/wrx trannys

Since you've completely ignored my question: how cold are you saying this syncro issue is actually happening? Like actually cold, or just while the tranny is "cold" meaning it hasn't been running for a while?


Sent from...somewhere?

Let me get my two cents in. My BRZ even at 75-80 degree ambient has a very hard second gear issue. I have to drive car a at least 5 miles before it settles down and shifts nicely.

I'm going to try the Pentosin MTF. It is a GL4 and 75W-80 should be fine. In fact gear oil viscosity is shown at 2X actual thickness. That is...75W-90 is actually 37.5W-45 in engine oil equiv.

So the 75W-80 is a 37.5W-40. Not much difference from a 45 weight to a 40 weight.

Per my first post the symptom of notchy second gear is more a fluid thing than a gear thing below 100f

The resolution for cold synchro fluid is fluid that flows better when cold that doesn't compromise shear strength and film.

gmookher, I wonder what engine oil you recommend then if you don't like Pennzoil or Castrol Edge Titanium 0W-20?

So has it been explained yet why "feeling" my car shift into gear is a bad thing? (Somewhat rhetorical).

With the stock fluid I never felt a crunch, not even on a 45 degree morning. Shifting fine. You are supposed to feel shift. As you move the shifter into the gear you should have an initial feeling of resistance then engagement (Synchro -> Collar Teeth). On this transmission with our triple synchros on 1st-3rd you feel the synchros more when things are cold and at lower rpms.

All I'm trying to say is that just because you "feel" your transmission doesn't mean it isn't doing exactly what it's designed to do or how it designed to function or that the longevity is at all affected.

I'm also weary about using an oil that was never designed for Aisin boxes. At least the GM/Pennzoil stuff (and even Honda MTL) is designed for Aisin boxes. We can definitively state that the OEM fluid is designed for this box or this box is designed to accept the OEM fluid. The fluid isn't in the transmission just for synchros and gear engagement and a barrier between the gear teeth, it's primary function is properly lubricating the bearings.

Here's another thing to consider: I can directly affect the lifespan of my synchros by how I drive (easy on shifts, double clutching during everyday driving etc) but my driving has less effect on the bearings. The bearing lifespan is directly affected by the quality of the fluid.

When considering alternate fluids outside of OEM, please consider all the parts in the tranny.

Example: Honda MTL is very thin, but the reason is the countershaft/mainshaft design act as a pump to force the fluid through very small passages inside the shafts to internally lubricate these very very small needle bearings. Using a gear oil (like a 75w-90 GL5) results in a fluid that is too thick (only by a little) and doesn't work inside the box as designed. So shifting feels good, but the bearings are subsequently dying.

Please consider the bigger picture.

^^I like this. It is well-reasoned.

As I may have said before, the guy who created the S2000 was asked what owners should do to protect the life and function of the car. Notably, he said to change the gearbox oil regularly and to do it sooner than the stated service intervals. I never heard any OEM say things like this before and it was good to learn.

Honda MT fluid was the best for that car. Other products may have been equal to it, but none were superior. I have no idea if Scion OEM MT fluid is the best or not, but it makes sense, given the info that we have so far.

wonder no more:

eneos sustina, top choice
motul eco
I also like total and agip oils
in addition to factory toyota and subi 'sm' rated oils
these contain the most zddp and moly for our boxxers


I pass on the 'sn'

track day switch to german made castrol 0w-30

I will be refilling my tranny with pentosin, wife and I both enjoy the less notchy 2nd gear. most of your apprehensions are from not comparing analyzing or matching up oil composition, chemistries and properties.

set it up how YOU want, fill it with what runs best for YOU and regarding the poster with the advise dispensed for bearing load come back and tell us how a 75w80 is going to affect bearing life, over a 75w85, what do you know about the HTHS differences between the OE oil that the Pentosin doesnt meet? It exceeds every ASTM rating you can look for when it comes to bearing load.

do your homework!!

you can doubt me, but dont spread fear for something that could benefit others just cause your afraid to try it or not knowledgeable enough to feel confident doing what I'm recommending
obviously anyone swapping fluids does so at their own risk
as does anyone swapping brakes, exhaust, etc etc etc

By your logic, all of us with porsches who swear by swepco over the 'recommended' oil are also taking a risk. by that model, any deviation from factory spec is a risk, this is actually NOT the case.

What is your opinion of using GC for day to day use? I know GC is a thick 30...almost a thin 40 and such wonder about day to day use when oil may not get as hot.

I don't think he said that, how did you come to that conclusion?

You keeping repeating your mantra of "do your homework" yet your only homework for Pentosin is "it feels good". You have no data to support your recommendation after that and I scoured the internet for people running Pentosin in Aisin boxes and found essentially nothing. My counter was not to say Pentosin shouldn't be used, my argument is that running a fluid that isn't tested and has little to no history with Aisin boxes should receive a bit more scrutiny than a 2nd-gear-cold-shift "feels better". Feels better doesn't always = is better. Other factors can be at play. So once again, don't ignore the bigger picture.

It is fair to say that just because the fluid improves 2nd gear when cold it doesn't necessarily mean it will increase the life the bearings or the shift forks or the engagement teeth on the shift collars. All you have to offer for your recommendation is that: "just try it yourself and do your own research".

Alternatively, Swepco has been run in LOTS of Porsches and there's mountains of data and experience with this fluid in those boxes both in street and racing applications. Just as there's lots of data and experience with GM/Pennzoil/Honda MTL/MT90/10w-30 in both Honda and Aisin boxes.

There's manual transmissions out there that work really well with ATF in them... would you recommend people try that and "come to their own conclusions?" No you wouldn't, neither would I.

You can go on and on about HTHS, Sheer, bearing load etc but a real world example is this: MT90 and Amsoil Synchromesh out-perform Honda MTF and any off the shelf DINO 10w-30 yet they don't work very well with the synchros in the S2k tranny and other Honda trannies (too slippery, high RPM crunch from Synchro not slowing the gear). Just as GL-4/5 gear oils (with superior bearing load ratings and HTHS #'s) don't properly lubricate the various bearings in various FWD Honda transmissions because they don't flow adequately throughout the various passageways and lead to bearing failure.

Great debate. I am also a skeptic at heart, but only because I want something to be proven. One guy saying "Some German cars use it, it MUST be good" doesn't convince me. Getrags are great, but they are a different transmission from a different company. I do my homework, but rice classic makes a great point that there's little data available on Pentosin in Aisin boxes, THIS Aisin box to be specific. An Aisin transmission designation, such as the AZ6, doesn't mean that ANY part is the same between a Toyota AZ6 (or "TL70") and a Honda AZ6. They may have fundamental similarities, but that's it.

We need some more guinea pigs to join gmhooker and BMWDavid and use the Pentosin. Do a bunch of daily driving or hard track days and send it in for analysis.

I got my blackstone bottle riiiiight here...

http://kaizenfactor.wordpress.com/20...n-or-is-scion/

what we NEED is a VIRGIN oil sample out of the tranny of a new 6MT since no one can get their paws on subie or toy gl3 mtf for this car to date
just open the fill hole, stick a syringe in there grab a few cc's and send it in.

if bmwdavid sends his in, I'll ante up and pay the cost for analysis so we can figure out WHAT it is 1st, even once I know its not going back in my car..the difference, rather the improvement is way too dramatic then, after 10,000 miles lets do a UOA and see what blackstone says. if they flow the same, and have the same minimum essential EP and FM then its not as unorthodox as one may think to put german oil in a jap car

I do the intelligent BITOG thing and talk 100°C cSt. Not SAE grades. I got $27,900 suggesting I'm pretty confident in my findings before I went pouring german into japan..
as for deviating from 0w-20 for dd duty, nope. anytime you start and stop alot, you want flow. thats your 40 cST When youre hanging out at redline you want HTHS, and watch the 100cST

the we will do this again at 40k miles
one of us will have had a notchy tranny for 40k miles, the other, miles of smiles.
the metal content will tell whose tranny is wearing faster, which fluid is not doing its job - - simple.

after all its a manual tranny derived off a tranny used in a honda s2000 many years ago, and mazdas, folks have been experimenting with GM and Motorcraft fluids for a while in thos ecar with alleged improved results. Go look at what mother company owns ford, and you will see across the pond some ford or motor craft fluid bottles have ravenol, addinol, or pentosin in side. The new Focus ST has all german spec'd fluid FYI, its a euro model that ships global, there is no more North American spec, so many of the fluids have become global formulations

I get there is variation in the BRZ/FRS tranny from the aisin one used in s2000, and I get there are reasons why what i am doing is going out on a limb.
Its up for debate if Pentosin has been used in Aisin trannys, based on s2000 and mazda boards, they been using non jap fluid for years, and when I see names like GM syncromesh and Motorcraft, there formulations arent top secret. if its not a pento branded goop, its likely a copy of many of the fluid tech pioneered to meet EU standards have now become widely used for engineering development worldwide and as such, these formulations are becoming more ubiquitous under a variety of names. its probably JUST coincidence that honda uses a MTF2 and pentosin uses a MTF2 and they are both 75w-80s...same color, etc etc

its Not like someone went and gave us some rocket space age tranny for $27k. automotive technology just doesnt move THAT fast. There is no voodoo in one brand over another. all factory fluids are repack'd formulas, and I can generally find a fluid that either meets, or EXCEEDs OE if you match them up.
What i am doing is as risky as running redline, and lots of you put that crap in your boxes...lets see what happens

personally, I'm waiting to see what bmwdavids results are

This is interesting
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1643610
and
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2617262
9
Anyone who knows anything about m3 transmissions knows they also use similar cone type synchros as the aisin in our cars, my bet is the toyota stuff is a 6 or 7 cST.
Pentosin is right there. I hit redline a dozen times on the way to breakfast- we took the long way) and so did wifey took turns driving..so our cars are driven pretty hard. We bought it for toy and track use, so I need it to shift, reliably.

"Competitive" debates like this are really handy for learning the nitty gritty about trans fluid. This is purely anecdotal, but I am a huge fan of Redline MT90, as it alleviated all of the 2nd gear grinding my Mazda's Aisin G35M-R had. OEM Mazda, and Honda MTF both crapped out when the box got too hot and resulted in grinding or locked gears even when double clutching and being gentle with it. Did approx. 20k each miles on both the Mazda, and Honda oils before switching to MT90, 37k, 20+ autocrosses, two track days (@100+*F) later and my shifts are still nice and smooth.

My AP1 S2000 is the same way, fluids may smooth it out but if it's only notchy until it warms up in 5 miles or so I'd simply deal with it until more research is done.

I also agree with this. My gearbox has been always been notchy when cold since day 1. Unfortunately, it seems part of the territory of buying an inexpensive car. The only exception I have seen to this has been in Honda/Acura MTs which are basically idiot-proof. In the past few years I have gotten into the habit of double clutching the first few shifts of the day, and that coupled with the Redline MT90 has resulted in no issues.

Only because I don't know jack about oils compared to you guys, can we get a recommendation from each of you debating this?

I just went turbo, about 300whp, and I am damned sure that I'll need to change the tranny/diff/motor oil and I'd like to get a recommendation from someone. I'd like to get as much longevity out of my parts as possible. I'm pretty sure the stock oils weren't rated for boost so let's hear it guys.

Thanks

Ahhhhh... I always come to this forum wanting to know something simple like, "what tranny fluid should I use?" And I always find some raging debate. Oh well..

I understand people being weary of trying something new, but I am not sure I see a big risk here. The pentosin fluid suggested in this thread seems to be close enough to the fluid the manual asks for that I can't imagine it being unsafe.