RX-9 Rotary Rumor Mill Churning Again
 

There is news out of Japan regarding the RX-9. Whether fact or speculation, a few sources have now said that Mazda is working with Toyota hybrid technology. Whether the RX-9 will be the worlds first Rotary Hybrid sports car or not is remain to be scene, but it does appear that Mazda will enter into the Hybrid market very soon.
It’s an interesting notion that Mazda may deploy a battery cell system paired with the wankel rotary engine, for a few reasons. One being that the rotary engine has long suffered from poor fuel economy, despite it’s small displacement (typically 1.3 liters). Another interesting benefit is that electric motors provide low end power, which would benefit the infamously low torque found in the RX-8′s Renesis engine. There is, however, a major downside to deploying a hybrid battery system in the RX-9, and that is weight. A rotary sports car’s worst enemy is weight, and unevenly distributed weight would be a showstopper. If Mazda is able to properly balance the added weight from the battery systems, it is possible with other weight saving techniques, they could keep the sports car to a weight of around 3400 lbs (500 of which would be battery cells), which would not be the end of the world but would require the new engine to output over 300hp to be considered a proper sports car in this day and age.
Picture below is another concept that seems to be inline with some of Mazda’s latest prototypes, which typically foreshadow their sports car lineup pretty well:
http://www.rx7blog.com/rx9-2012-concept.jpg

The body style look way different then any mazda Iv seen. this Is the first pics Iv say of the rx9 also

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/w...ri-Concept.jpg
Mazda is plotting a gasoline range-extended electric car and, as usual, is choosing to take its own path in the development, relying on engine technology exclusive to the brand.

According to company boss Takashi Yamanouchi, the Japanese automaker is committed to the rotary engine. And while a next-gen rotary sports car isn’t out of the question, for now Mazda will focus on using the technology in a plug-in hybrid.
Speaking at the Moscow Motor Show this week, Yamanouchi commented that roatry engines are at their most efficient at low rpm and under constant load. That said, it’s ideal for use in range-extended engine – similar to what is found in the Chevrolet Volt. The system would work by having the rotary engine charge batteries that would then be used to move the car via an electric motor. With the electric capacity already on-board, it’s all but certain to also have a plug-in component.
Mazda has been on a product and technology offensive as of late, launching its SkyActiv models, including the 2012 Mazda3, CX-5 and most recently the 2014 Mazda6. With a next-gen Miata in the works, the new plug-in rotary vehicle will arrive first, debuting next year. It’s not clear if the car will be based on an existing model or be an all-new model, though Mazda has confirmed it will initially only be available to lease in Japan.

That thing looks sexy, kinda reminds me of the mazda furai. but hybrid=fail
http://www.autospectator.com/cars/fi...Furai_9049.jpg

YES yes it does

Hybrid sports cars do not interest me in the least

Sorry to say this but Mazda is my last choice of Japanese brands in North America. Nothing they do interests me in the least. Rotary engines are a novelty item IMHO. And the lack balls for the most part.

Do they have any factories in Canada/US? If so then at least I could say they help create decent paying jobs here.

Mazda philosophy of doing business here=fail.

First off, wrong section to post this. Should be post in the "Other Vehicles & General Automotive Discussions" but I'll let that slide since your a newbie.

Secondly, I find Mazda vehicles very fun to drive ie Miata/RX-7 and also their Mazdaspeed variants. I can't wait to see what Mazda comes up with their next iteration of the RX line. I think a rotary hybrid would make sense as long as they develop a chassis that is balanced & fun to drive like their previous generation.

It's sad that there is such a poor view of Mazda, considering they actually have the sportiest lineup of all "generic" cars.

If anything, they're even smarter by deploying their Skyactiv philosophy; reduce weight, increase area, increase gas mileage, increase power, utilize diesel, no hybrid.

Having driven the entire modern line, I think they get a bad rap.

The Mazda5 drives like a bigger Mazda3, still fun to drive and doesn't scream minivan.

The Mazda6 is along the lines of a Suzuki Kizashi (also underrated), and is more fun to drive than a Camry and on par with a modern Accord.

The Mazda3 and Mazdaspeed3 are the closest to having a mild/hot hatch outside of a GTI, Cooper S on this side of the states.

Mazda2 is like driving a TRD Yaris; better designed, better suspension.

CX-5 is the "sporty" SUV next to a Rav4/CRV.

Mazda should just find a way to more efficiently utilize hydrogen into their rotary engines.

1st: Wrong thread but our awesome Mods will move it soon

2nd: I hope they do what Toyota did and keep lots of its concept's aspects in the final design off for production.

3rd: 300hp with 2800-3000lbs FR coupe and a <50in height shouldn't be too hard right?

I guess it depends on how the hybridness, hybridity? is deployed, and with what purpose in mind.

They need to take the "gay" out of Miata.

I have owed 2 RX-7's. Both first generation. An '85 GSL (1.1L carbureted), and an '85 GSL-SE (1.3L FI) loved them both. Also, had a 91 Miata, and a 96 MX-6.
Mazda has a lot of involvement in Motorsport, but I agree that there's not much in their lineup at the moment, except for the Miata.
I look forward to the possibility of an RX-9 or whatever they choose to call it. If they put their head in the game, they can make a really good performer. Perhaps the 86 family will push them in the right direction.

As for creating jobs, dealerships hire a lot of people. More so than the factories. It would be nice to have more North American presence though.

Backend looks like a Saturn sky I hope they drastically change that.

^ Ooo, now that's more like it!

If they go hybrid with a more powerful engine, it would be in a different class of heavier and more expensive cars, which may be a risky area to compete in and may upset some of the fans of the RX series. But either way, the RX's are always unique and refreshing/exciting cars and I look forward to seeing the next one.

I have a lot of respect for Mazda. They're kind of an underdog but they have a lot of potential and I love how they've always cared for sport. :thumbsup:

I own a RX8 and am well connected with Mazda folks as a result of all the RX7/RX8 work I have done.

I can tell you with almost certainty that should another "RX" vehicle come to pass, it will weigh alot less than 3400lb. Mazda is hell bent on reducing weight as a means of achieving fuel economy targets (look at the CX5, new Mazda 6 and target weight for the new miata).

Given Mazda's financial condition (due largely to the fact that they produce nearly all their vehicles in Japan which hurts due to exchange rates), I don't expect to see Mazda sell a new RX vehicle until they find a financial partner as they simply can't afford a new nitch vehicle right now. The Miata/Alfa J.V. shows how Mazda needs support to produce its nitch vehicles to assure profitability (even one as sucessful as the Miata).

I expect to see the rotary live on for Mazda, but likely as a range extender / generator. That part of the story I can certainly buy. Sadly I fear I own the last conventional RX sports car. Emissions and fuel economy targets will make a non hybrid rotary simply impossible to produce.

Oh please. This is getting old. Does it make you feel "macho" saying that?

Yes. I have been sticking my chest out ever since I made that comment.

HAHAHAHAHA lack of balls you say my friend I think you should check out the Aussie Rotary scene before you make a claim like that perhaps this may enlighten you.......

Pac Performace Old Car (world record in 11/2010 of 6.58 @ 208mph)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UszPwNF-AiQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UszPwNF-AiQ[/ame]

Pac Performance (world rotary record holders new car debut launch)
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjTmPwAogvI"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjTmPwAogvI[/ame]

I'm not excited an iota about hybrid technology, but damn can Mazda make a gorgeous concept car or what!

I don't know why some of you guys are so turned off by hybrids. From an engineering perspective, they work, and can outperform traditional gasoline/petrol driven cars in some cases. The immediate torque of an electric engine is nothing to sneeze at, and if you couple it with a rotary engine, you may have a bit of a beast on your hands.

If the complaints are due to the fact that the batteries of a hybrid kill the car's ability to handle or accelerate, why is the Fisker Karma, albeit overpriced, still a decent-handling and accelerating machine?

Why the hate? Not all the hybrids out there are Priuses.

There's an "other cars" section.

It's just the fact that it's not a full gas motor. Some may feel it's cheating? Also, batteries destroy balance and add weight.

I view it as progress (though really, if we wanted to talk zero-emission, lets talk about fuel cells, hybrids are old tech)

However, I would strongly disagree that batteries "destroy" balance. They most certainly add weight, but most hybrid manufacturers aren't staffed by complete idiots--the batteries in these cars, such as the Chevy Volt and the Karma, are typically low-slung and placed in such a way that the car isn't unevenly balanced. Look at diagrams of either, and you will see what I mean.

just wait until the porsche 918 comes out. this will show the hybrid haters just how awesome a hybrid can be. the problem with most "sport" hybrids is that they are still using the hybrid tech for mpgs and not as a performance enhancer. with the 918, they have a clear direction: performance. whatever increase in mpg that they can get on the way is just icing on the cake, but make no mistake their main objective is making a supercar first and foremost.

as battery tech gets better, the hybrid advantage will only grow...

The last gen RX7. Was godly. If they could return to that root, I would be 100% interested.

i belive we should really start pushing into hybrid technology and also full electric motors since we need to find alternatives to gas engines for the future and for pollution reasons. the argument seems to be that the batteries are heavy and what not,but i'm sure if humanity keeps developping the technology it will get smaller and lighter as well. just remember most of our current technologies (tv's,cells,computers) were bigger and heavier.so why couldn't the same be done with batteries? i'm positive they can make engines perform as good if not better then our current engines using other alternatives to combustion.

From my viewpoint, there is more fun to be had in a gas engine. The way it sounds, the way it feels-- it has soul and character. It isn't about instant torque to me at all.

So what you are saying is that you are willing to sacrifice performance and improved technology just so you can hear the engine?

Eh, what the hell, I'm going to end up being nostalgic for that as well. Being an engineer, I like the improvements in technology we have seen in the past couple decades, but starting up my '73 stingray still gives me chills :D

300hp rotary + a Hybrid system. The writers of that article must be out of their minds if they think that kind of a car would become an RX. Price point would be near 40k.

Much as I hate hybrids (mostly due to cost and long term servicing), a hybrid electric with a rotary is an AWESOME idea! Would be great if you could retrofit something in the future to an RX8 to improve fuel economy and low end performance for a bit of weight gain.

A snag point I see is that a rotary could not be stopped and started as easily as a conventional engine and would therefore need to be at least idling hence using fuel :(

Want to see this car made!

I feel like there's a way to preserve soul with increased engine electrification. Basically the point of all this electric motor this that is to reduce the amount of time the engine needs to run in an inefficient way, and I think that most of it is preservable.

I think the Honda CR-Z is sorta in the right direction. Have a start stop system that works seamlessly, use the electric motor to slow the idle down when it needs to run, have an ultracapacitor bank to handle transient electric motor operation and a small battery to optimize packaging, reliability, and mass. Keep the clutch pedal and manual transmission, because that's the only way you can really feel what the car is doing. Add driver involvement via the option for manually controlled electric "boost" and regeneration, the way 1st gen Insight owners did with the MIMA "hack".

Back on topic: This RX-9 rumor sounds like bullshit. They're not trying to adapt a full Toyota HSD drivetrain for a pure sports car, that would make no sense at all. If they're actually working on the rotary, then if it's ever released it'll be freaking amazing since the rotary's performance problems are closely tied with its emissions problems.

Mixed feelings on the front fascia, otherwise, I like!

^ very old render back when Mazda was still in Nagare..Now Mazda is in Kodo. So no...

Did you know that the designer of the first gen rx7 Maeda was at the panel table with Tada during the unveiling of the GT86.

Maeda's son, Ikudo Maeda designer of the rx8 is also in charge of the rx9 design and says that he wants to return to his fathers roots and make it a true 2 door rotary sports car.

anyway..here is my reprise from i think 07 of Ian's Render

http://i38.tinypic.com/2nrzn6g.jpg
http://i37.tinypic.com/wrzurm.jpg
http://i56.tinypic.com/2lawvua.jpg
http://i35.tinypic.com/1zqc1fr.jpg
http://i50.tinypic.com/fm15jn.jpg

also my mazda super coupe

http://i34.tinypic.com/2r40baf.jpg

I will only buy it if it is light weight and stays the hell away from anything electric. A simple , great handling car is all we need. If you are looking for fuel economy, make more money or buy a hybrid period we dont need stupid hybrid sport cars there is a market for everything i DD a Dodge 2500 and dont complain one bit about fuel economy, i love my truck and would not switch over to a hybrid even if diesel was 5 bucks a gallon.

the future generation will feel totally different. to them the whir/whine of a motor and the feel of the instant torque will be their definition of fun...

i personally embrace hybrids/EVs. a high performance hybrid at a reasonable price cant come soon enough imo.

not good thinking, a entry level sports car has to sustain itself on the market in multiple levels of performance including economy. If fuel economy wasn't an issue for sports cars, more people would buy sports car. It becomes such a blessing to be able to put down 300hp and still manage an average of 30mpg on spirited driving. But how many cars can actually do that? and at a affordable price range.

Face it electric hybrid power has too many perks to ignore, and if an automaker can successfully integrate the two for an affordable sports coupe, without numbing the driving experience then its a win.


Also in regards to this so called news of a hybrid rotary, Ikudo Maeda cheif designer of the next gen rx wants to keep it simple, and the SKY-R 1.6 Rotary engine with SKY active tech has still yet to be unveiled, even after knowing about it since 2011 during a press release. The Rotary development team has said they had several breakthroughs in the past 5 years, but was halted at the 2010 last quarter to prep itself from 1. Cutting ties with Ford, 2. Putting its efforts into SKY-G and SKY-D, 3. Miata + FIAT development team had priority.

So all this hybrid talk is only an idea, and not an idea thats well liked by the Chief Designer.

KERS + V12 that's what it's all about!