Is the manual transmission a good choice for an everyday driver?
 

Stupid question i know.. But i been saving up for a while now, and i cant decide between which.. Im 18 right now, so i have to pick a car to stick with for a while (probably through college as well) and i worked too hard for the money to waste it wrong.. Anyways i been driving an auto and never even drove a stick, so i need some advice haha I need a car to have fun with(im not talking about going on tracks and drift, like maybe a little stupid powerslide..ect) but i like REV'ing the engine to redlines and ect.. and IM SURE i can learn the manual, so not ever driving a manual car isn't a big thing either. I just basically need something reliable to last for a bit and not too costy for the maintenance, be convenient, an EVERYDAY car .. what do you think?



& Also, so does the original HU, the basic ones have RCA outputs for speakers? i know the premium HU does "Six 2.4-volt pre-amplified RCA outputs for front, rear and sub-speakers, allowing owners to add external amps to boost power and expand the sound field for a truly custom speaker system"

manual is a good choice PERIOD.... i dont understand why anyone would want a sports car that isnt.

You've put in an akward corner! I drive nothing but MT, but must admit I had absolutely no love for the clutch when I first encountered this car.
(too light...more so than Honda)

If you think constant shifting will be a nuisance or you have a left knee issue, then perhaps AT will suit you. On the other hand if you may take note than AT pilots often fantasize about driving MT. If that were not true then why plant a hand on a stationary shifter? Good luck and choose wisely!
LL-FRS!

Either way you can't go wrong with this car. Both are fun to drive and they grip like hell.

read this:
auto vs. manual

if you really cant decide, drive both and make you're decision.

PS- i know you are new here so ill be easy on you. do some research before posting a thread, it takes up space for NECESSARY threads.
/rant

When you drive a manual and you enjoy shifting from gear to gear, playing with the clutch and gas, then MT is for you. If you don't enjoy those things, then get an automatic. That's it.

Ignore the performance and gas mileage aspects, don't base your decisions on these factors.

My last 2 vehicles I've owned were MT and heck I've driven stick ever since I was legally able to drive, this one however is an AT.
No, I did not get bored of shifting; many things come into play when deciding which transmission is the right one for you...

I chose AT because it will be my daily vehicle, which means it gotta get me to and from work, which also means LOTS of stop and go traffic in the city (Rush hour).

Like I said again... there are many things like this you have to take into consideration before choosing one or the other. For me, it was a very hard decision at first, but what made it a little easier was the fact that these ATs in these cars are eff-ing outstanding (you really must test-drive an AT to actually appreciate it). Do I regret getting an AT? Nope! Sure I don't have the fun of balancing the clutch and gas and wiggling that shifter around anymore, but I still get the same great performance this car screams with the paddles in M mode!

Hope this helps, in the end which ever transmission you decide to choose...they're both equally awesome in their own respective ways!

learn to drive stick first. if you start to enjoy driving stick, go test drive, both AT and MT FR-S'. i barely learned to drive stick a few months ago through my valet job =P haha now i absolutely love driving MT. acquire a bit of skill and knowledge with stick. then test drive. then choose.

good luck!

iv been driving manual all my life. never had an AT car

youll get use to it eventually.

Everyone has good point..... But if you never drove stick, you can risk buying a car and hating it. I've known a few people who learned to drive stick, who still appreciate driving it, but would never want to own a manual trans car....

... I learned about 10 yrs ago, and still love driving it daily. It's my opinion that's most sports cats are better off bought as MT. But after reading reviews on the AT, it'll come own to preference...

I had the same dilemma as you back in 1989 (dating myself there). I ended up getting a 1985 RX-7 MT. For the first few weeks I thought I had made a horrible, HORRIBLE mistake. But once I had it down, I loved it. And I still do. It makes YOU part of the machine. You are a participant, not just an operator.

Without you having a MT before, it will make it hard for you to test drive the manual with out hating it. The automatic is one of the best I have ever driven. Love the throttle blip on downshift, and it's very quick to respond. However... If you buy the MT once you get the knack of driving stick you will love it forever. It's fine as a daily driver, highway commuter, winding road ripper, etc, etc.

It is not hard, it just takes practice. I urge everyone who has not driven manual to just dive in head first. Be brave, dive in, the water is fine.

if you have kids teach them from the start with a manual. i have to say thanks to my mom for that :)

It's the only choice. You will not regret it.

Everyone should learn to drive a manual; you're at the right age for it, and this is the right car for it. Pick the manual and let the love affair begin!

*Warning* it may take a month or two before you really get the hang of it. I got my first manual car (MR2) when I was 19 and it was a challenge for a while, but once I learned it solid I felt like a driving god! I looked back at the advice my stepfather gave me (don't get a manual - automatics shift faster and you'll just burn out the clutch) and wanted to kick him for all the fun he made me miss! Yes, I did burn out the clutch - it had 215,000 miles on it though. Replaced the clutch and never looked back!

Very True!!

This will take some searching, but look through the posts of forum member MOTO-P. He races his FR-S and uses an automatic. He has a HUGE number of posts about auto vs mt.

My first manual was a 1982 Kawasaki KX125 motorcross bike. I learned to drive on my dad's 1978 Ford Bronco which has a manual transmission. The car I sold to buy my FR-S was a 2005 Mustang GT with a manual 5 speed transmission. My FR-S is an automatic.

I would buy a POS manual and drive it for a few months. Honestly, don't make the WRONG decision, and don't listen to a bunch of strangers on the internet. It's a 25k+ purchase. Both transmissions (for the price) are world class. But make a decision that's right for you and based on DATA and not opinion.

Here is the post you want to read:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6485

MT is more reliable and durable - this is fact, that's just the way it is. It also gives you as much control over the gear shifts as possible. You won't be able to do stupid things like shift into 1st at 100mph, but you can certainly do damage to the clutch if you ride or slip it too much (aka 'half-clutching' it) - that's assuming you learn improper techniques and never know what you're doing wrong.

Ultimately the reliability, the control and driving engagement (rowing the shifter yourself) are big reasons to choose the MT. Choose the AT if you are constantly stuck in stop and go traffic for long periods of time, or if you're not willing to learn how to drive stick, or if it's a shared car with someone who doesn't know/care about MT.

Given a choice I will always choose MT, unless I'm buying something extraordinary like a GT-R. If the MT in the car sucks, then the car is not for me no matter what. This is not snobbery, it's my strong personal preference.

In my car history I have had 2 automatics and 6 manual transmissions and I haven't owned an automatic car since 2007.
Unless you live in San Francisco, a MT car is fine for daily driving.

COMPLETELY depends on you as a person. Personally, I dont think they should have built these in automatic, but apparently there was a huge demand for the AT so they ended up making wayyyyy more AT's than MT's.

And, referring to ur comment about "power sliding" and "redlining", please remember to be safe and smart. I like to keep a good reputation for us 86 owners.
GOOD LUCK!

everyone has their preference and i respect that......all i am saying is that for me.....i will NEVER drive auto again.

Its not a question about whether the stick is a good choice for daily driving or not, its a question of if the Stick is the choice for you period.

No other factors need to come into play. If you like driving stick, then everyday driving is a nonissue. If you feel indifferent between manual and automatic, then manual might not be for you.

You either like driving stick or you dont.

well ok the other factor that needs to be is that its a sports car. Sports car = manual.

There was a time that if you drove a car you drove a manual transmission because there were no automatic transmissions. Then, as the automotive industry progressed automatics became available and over time became more and more popular. As their popularity increased the people exposed to using manual transmissions diminished to the point that it was almost rare that someone, especially some young one, knew how to drive a manual. It now seems as if it's almost a cult thing. Sort-of a measure of a persons manliness to be able to drive a manual transmission. It gives macho man bragging rights that he qualifies for a secret society that most drivers aren't capable of reaching.

Today there's a lot of chest pounding by this prestigeous group of people who take great pleasure in "putting down" the average guy who might buy or drive an automatic. It's all a bunch of nonsense. Both systems have their advantages and both have their disadvantages. There's no question you're more involved in the driving process if you have a manual but no matter which system you have it doesn't change the fact you're moving your butt around in a pretty spiffy little coupe. Buy the one you want.

End of rant. :D

In third world countries there are more manual transmission cars on the road and thus more manual transmission drivers...even in the crazy traffic jams.

Wish I could say the same about America, it just makes a generalization that we're lazy drivers.

I don't drive stick yet because my dad (who learned driving with an m/t car first at 12 years old in the Philippines) bought A/T cars because my mom didn't want to learn. She's an example of a lazy driver.

Now that the FR-S is coming, my dad is ready to teach me, but on a beat-up car. I'm definitely not a lazy driver...I can't wait to drive stick!

Edit: I want to disclaim that if you drive an automatic, it doesn't automatically mean you're a lazy driver. We all have our reasons :)

The stock clutch in this car is soft so you should have no problem in traffic

Although you've got some good points there... I must say if you look at this board, majority of the FR-S here that are MT actually experience more of the "idle dip" problem... so your reliability and durability fact of the car is not exactly "true"; technology has advanced.

I also hate to call you out, but if you were to buy a GT-R, you wouldn't have a choice to get a MT anyways...they only come standard with the six-speed automated dual clutch transmission. (AKA automatic with paddle shifters, but with clutch mechanics) :bonk:

There is no excuse aside from injury to get an auto. I got my first car in manual and learned on that with no problems

This is from forum member Moto-P:

Choose Semi-Automatic Digital Shifting AT, if you want "MOST" out of an FRS)

If you have a multi-role task for this car with commutes, and even lending the car occasionally to folks.
If you appreciate modern drivetrain that is much more sophisticated than older traditional MT.
If you want to learn how to drive exotic cars like Lamborghini or Ferrari, and even LFA's as those are now mostly e-shft cars as well.
And let me add that the FRS's AT system/software/actuation is so precise and intuitive that despite the torque converter design being very different mechanically from those of twin clutched e-Shifts on exotics, the actual driving feel and timing is very similar and quite useful in the raceway as well.
If you want to learn how to drift. (yes I said this again, because this AT in full-no-nannies mode is very much capable of sliding gracefully into corner apexes and doing donuts around cones with Torsen LSD equipped on all FRS)
If you have a dumb foot that can't seem to learn how to heel/toe under FULL braking, sliding on all fours, and during your flight to an apex (or into a wall of Turn 10 at Laguna Seca, at alarming speeds) in a MT despite your best efforts.
If you like having the third button on your center console than a blank piece of plastic by your shifter.
If you already had your share of learning to drive competitively, and you know what the heck you are doing on a racetrack.
If you don't know what the heck you are doing but you want to look better on the racetrack.
And you have the time to explain what the hell I am writing in detail here, to every damn person that asks "YOU OF ALL PEOPLE got and AUTOMATIC????" LOL!!!
__

Unlike the normal traditional AT, this one is bred of performance driving, and as such, in one of the 5 modes of programming combination of VSC, TRC and shifting, the car will become fully manual to the point where you can ride the rev-limit and destroy your engine just as in a MT. And not shift till you tell it to. It will also allow downshifting with more precision than in a manual, and with less driveline shock, which may be of benefit for those already seasoned in performance driving.

And for me, this is my first FRS, and one which I will drive EVERY DAY for daily use of all reasons I have a car for in my life to get to places. It is not my dedicated race car, which my old faithful AE86 will now be able to become because of this car's arrival. And when it is time for me to build a track dedicated FRS in the future, I will buy one in a few years, used, and out of warranty as I will hack that to my desires and really make use of the platform that is so excellent.

I don't have a need to pretend being a 1980's driver, when all modern F1 and WRC Rally cars also have no clutch pedals and relies on digital programmed brains and hydraulics to make things go faster. Especially in a car that is born in 2012.

Still, I will buy and have both eventually, as FT86 siblings are something I have been working on with the Chief Engineer Tada for the last 5 years, if very little as speaking my opinions, and having him listen, and answering questions he may have had. And as such, it is possibly the first and the last car that I had such opportunity, as a common folk...living outside of Corporate R&D labs.

This is why I chose the Automatic. It's something appropriate in 2012, and for many of us, a more advanced and versatile form of a manual transmission to allow many things without much compromise at all.

Lastly, you may have noticed that the AT has a much taller gear at 6th, and wider gaps in those gears under it. While in theory, (for the numerical stats geeks) it provides for a more ideal way to deliver power, you need to remember that closer the gears are packed, the more busy you are on the track shifting through them.

I found the MT almost challengingly busy on the raceway, and unless I have driven this thing for weeks, my body's natural muscle memory lacking was a handicap for the one day I only had on the track. This explains why most journalists at the event were also posting similar or faster laps with the paddle shift mode of the AT. And I'm no foreigner to MT shifting on the track, having won a few shiny sticks on wood in SCCA with many cars.

With this smart AT, one can concentrate on the delicate balancing of the contact patch on this very peaky and ultra responsive car if you can let the transmission do its thing, as long as the AT is doing it well enough according to your intuitive timing on the track. And this one does.

The ratio from 1-4th are pretty close to the MT, and if you know racing on tracks with 200hp lightweight cars, 1-4th are the only gears you'd use for racetracks anyway, outside of very big tracks like Laguna Seca or Super Speedway based infields. So argument about 5th and 6th being away from 4th is sort of a moot point for most enthusiasts as well. At medium speed Spring Mountain Racepark, where fastest trap in the straight was about 104mph, it was still in the middle of 4th gear and only for 2-3 seconds before dropping to 3rd again. Get what I mean?

Also on the more mundane side of the deal, the ultra tall 6th gear proved to be very quiet on the highway, revving almost 800rpm less in cruise than in the MT at 85mph (the usual Interstate rural highway speeds in the USA). And fuel consumption also will reflect this as well.

So there you have it. You can perhaps print this out and keep it in the car, if you choose what I call this a "SPORTS SMART Semi-AUTO" in case you run into a muscle head who gives you crap about that PRND-M on your center console.

I sincerely hope that this can help your decision-making, and help you head over to the Scion dealership faster, so that the precious 1500 or so units allocated for each month of BRZ/FRS for the US of A, will end up in your garage, and you spend more time on the road with a smile on your face, than lurking here on the forums wondering what it is like...

Whatever you choose, do it, as once the FRS hits TV commercials and are seen on the road, your order will be backed up by several months, I suspect. In Japan, the wait-list is now November as of May, and growing, if that's any hint that you should really hurry.
__________________

FACT: You would be wasting your hard earned money buying an auto. This car is an easy stick to drive. I have driven many manual vehicles and this one is second only to a honda element in ease of driving. I have stalled many cars, but not this one, yet... But idk it seem pretty hard to stall. It just takes off... Just make sure you have somebody to teach you, how to drive stick.:thumbsup:

The thing that concerns me is your need for an everyday car. You might want to think about something more practical, A used stick shift VW golf/rabbit would be the Ideal for college, Enough room to move your shit, and enough room to comfortably seat 4 and enough torque to go blunt riding in rural/hilly areas. Then once your out of college and making some good money. Then the FR-S seems practical for an everyday car, commuting back and forth to work, picking up some groceries.:burnrubber:

I have the standard radio equipment.
Yes it has a hook up for a sub, But honestly the stereo in this thing sounds great. I would not change a thing, save your money for stage1 ICE Intake Chip Exhaust. Putting in a sub adds weight, the car has 8 speakers, pioneer headuint, with bluetooth. Basically its the best sounding stock system Ive ever heard. You can make it real loud and the music still come in clear. I like blasting techno pretending I'm that german guy in a porche from sooper troopers.:party0038:

Holy shit, yes it is. You can get INSANE mileage with the manual. I've averaged 35.2 mpg for the last 2000 miles and on my current tank (350 miles in) I've averaged 38.8mpg. I had no idea this car was so good at hypermiling.

Yeah I'm getting 29 mpg city driving. Low rpms and fast downhill and slow uphill.
Please give a better explanation of hypermilling. Ive hear it before but don't know what it is.

I have been averaging about 32MPG in my MT FR-S (85% freeway with little traffic) so I am pretty stoked. IMO if you plan to keep this car for a while, mod it, etc.. get a MT. Its so much fun and you will feel connect to the car. Now the AT is very good in this car. You really can't go wrong with either. On the plus side, MT is 1K less which you can put to mods :happy0180:

Umm the stock audio is good, but I have heard much better stock units from plenty of other cars. I mean don't get me wrong, I like the stock system, and decent enough that I will not add new speakers unless I am just flush with cash at some point down the line.

The biggest disadvantage I have found with a MT is that you just want to downshift and hit a corner much faster than you should be on public roads!

I hate to point it out to you, but you're under the impression that I didn't already know that.

Keyword: "unless"

I apologize if I misunderstood your statement, but take a second here...

Re-read your own quote out loud again and tell me that it doesn't sound like you're giving yourself an option of choosing a MT for that particular vehicle.

Fuck i wish i had someone to teach me stick or even let me try it haha thats the thing that im worried about, i never drove stick and i dont want to jump blindly into one.
And nah haha the FR-S seems too godly to pass up, besides i need a tad bit of fun anyways haha.

You're right i wouldn't add a sub at all, if anything change the speakers and amp them but eh if its that good then i wont touch it! Im just hoping it matches my 300watt amp with BOSS speakers haha and oh ill be blasting lots of techno and fist pumping hahahaha:happyanim::happyanim:

For the cash thing, ill be paying payments anyways and might be leasing it so im not shabby about that!






Thank you everyone for your inputs honestly, this is a very friendly community! :thumbup:
I'll let you guys know my decision haha I just really want to test drive a manual which i dont have access to! Someone needs to teach me haha

My turn to apologize, in one interpretation it does sound like I'm actually giving myself a choice. But you can also interpret it as 'I will always choose MT, unless it's a car that I truly adore (and is widely known by those who love one to be AT only)'. That last part in brackets was left unsaid because I already knew that a GT-R was AT only and it wouldn't stop me from wanting one (because I know how good that car is).

The only auto transmission appropriate for a sport car is one with dual clutch, like you can find in Audi and some other cars. There you practically have regular mechanical transmission with clutch controlled by computer. Our BRZ/FRS cars have conventional auto transmission with hydraulic torque converter. Thus it inherits all limitations of that technology. Conventional auto transmission only makes sense if you have large reserve of torque, which our cars obviously do not provide. That is why manual is the only reasonable option for my BRZ. I do not mind having auto in my truck with 4 litres V6 though.

This