How (NOT) to install coilovers
 

From Vivid Racing (whoa)

http://vimeo.com/45543987

He hit's every nut with an air impact... :eyebulge: My lord... DON'T DO THIS!!
especially on the damper nut...

You should NEVER torque anything down with an impact wrench and especially not an air one... the peak torque you get out of one of those is in the thousands of foot-lbs. We've done studies and impact torqued nut torque levels are WILDLY inconsistent.

1000s?

Maybe 100s

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-1-2-i...p-00919982000P

Still, I wouldn't use an impact gun very liberally on sensitive components.

I use my huge impact on everything. I took off the panels under the car with it. I just turn the bitch down when I was tightening it up. Air for everything; I am too damn lazy to move my wrist, you kidding me!

1000s? No. I agree on not assembling stuff with an impact and the torque accuracy being non-existant, but even a Thundergun isn't putting down thousands on the tightening side.

You can impact with torque sticks, but I don't bother.

Air ratchet at most for me, I never tighten with an air impact, even with it turned down I've broken too many things in the past.

Whatever works for you though :)

Maybe someone @vividracing can explain why they do this!?

On 1 it barely does anything, I normally have space to spare if I am using a torque wrench. Then again it is a max of 900, if I used my 3000ft lb impact (for working on tractor equipment) I would be afraid.. I have broken quite a few bolts using a hand ratchet. I have an air ratchet but it just seems to puny and cannot remove really anything; my battery impact seems more powerful. It is more about moderation and not tightening something on max torque and holding the trigger. You can do most stuff on the car with air tools.

Thats makes me cringe.

I also hate when people use impacts on lug nuts.

:sigh:

I don't use an air ratchet to remove, just to snug bolts :)

I'm alright with using air to remove but I would have done a lot of those nuts by hand to re-install. Especially the top strut nuts and strut top mount nut. Just my preference.
I used to look at vivid as a two headed demon because their customer service was the worst in the industry. But I have kept quiet and waited to see how they do in the BRZ/FR-S community.
You can't really say that they did it wrong unless you know how the impact torque was set.

dont hate based ona video

you have to know how to use tools, and not be one. I dial my air line down anytime I am tightening a bolt that later needs to be torqued.

impact guns are nice for taking things off, never use it for putting something together

I'll bet that number is an average. You're instantaneous moment could easily be in the thousands. Those specs are more generally for breaking bolts free, because ... you know... you shouldn't be torquing down nuts with an impact wrench. It's like when you hit something with a hammer. The instantaneous force can be QUITE high.

I see nothing wrong with this at all. I work on a lot of cars, I used to work for a shop, and I see a lot of shop do this. Just dial down your impact settings and you should be fine.

Of course, if we assume he knows how to do it correctly.. the fact that they never show a torque wrench likely means that was full power for most of it.

Just because a shop torques wheels to 200ftlbs doesn't actually make it "fine".

Hey guys,

All I can say is every tech has their own way. If you have ever been a professional technician like I have you know that Flat Rate will change you. When you get paid for how much work you do in a day, not how many hours you were present, and you are competing with the other techs for the work, you find faster ways to do things.

That being said, yes there are shortcuts that can COST more time if they cause damage etc. But after over 10 years on turning wrenches, and having owned my own shop as well, I can tell you I did use a 3/8 impact for assembly in a lot of cases. I always started nut/bolts by hand first to avoid cross threading. I also always adjusted my pressures for assembly to avoid over tightening.

I think if any of you went and watched the technicians at the scion dealership you would see the same thing...

That doesn't make it right.

I understand each mechanic does his own thing. When you are putting your product on display and showing how you install it please keep in mind people don't know better. They will see what you do and think that is the norm. Also you took the time to make an awesome video why not take the time to do the install the way you would want your customers to do it?

So your response is a shoulder shrug and "it's quantity over quality?"

God you bunch are a finnicky gaggle of muppets.

From threads about how much torque to do up a sump plug, to how much torque on strut tops I dont know how you all get out of bed in the morning. OCD much?

everyone with a rattle gun who has enough talent to scratch their arse gets to know their rattle gun and has an appreciation for how long you hold it on versus how much torque based on the application.

My problem isn't the fact that they use it normally. Its the fact that they made a video called how to install coil overs and didn't do it properly.

Ok, so you are saying since I know how to use a torque gun then you will let me pull your car apart then put it all back together with said torque gun without you watching or checking my work?

Not to get off subject, but I fear I have conflicting opinion with that. Shortcuts are terrible in any job field.
For example, at my job facility (healthcare), I could easily make shortcuts by giving less than prescribed medication to a patient to make the process quicker; potentially killing/saving them. How about saying, screw documenting the medications that the patient takes at home because that takes too much time.

Shortcuts are BS in any job, no excuse, even if you are competing. If you're competing you already lost because you didn't do it right. Anyone agree?

My reference is to The service manual saying yes you have to remove the alternator to access the bolt for the exhaust (hypothetical) and when it was written they did not have Wobble sockets or what have you. Now I can get to said bolt without removing.
However every service manual is written without any air tools, as they can not require any one to own them when it is "possible" with a hand tool. The service times and labor ops are all quoted on the national standard. A select few technicians are selected to do a certain job, lets say a clutch. All 100 do it and they take the average time to determine what everyone gets paid.

I don't mean short cuts with such the negative connotation. All the work is still done, but sometimes there is room for safe, and effective improvement.

jskurucz ^ yup, if I took shortcuts at my work the county would violate us and shut us down (work with bio-hazardous materials)

I've been wrenching for 23 years, making money at it for over 20 of them. I can torque bolts by hand, without a torque wrench, accurate to less then 5% by feeling the stretch in the bolt. I typically use my air gun and then go back with a torque wrench. It's not often I have far to go and very rare that I found I've over torqued something.

As for a how to, these are techniques that you learn from experience and maybe shouldn't be used as a teaching tool. But I have no issues IF the guy is aware of why torque specs exist.

Conversely, I had a guy over torque a set of ARP wheel studs so bad I had to bounce my 250 lb frame on the end of a two foot power bar in order to break them free. He lost a lot of business over that.

as a consumer if I pay you to put something on my car I am most certainly NOT paying you to cut corners

As someone who owns a rattle gun and has worked on his own cars for a long time. They aren't that hard to use, I have mine set to where if I just run it til it starts to impact I only get like 40lb/ft.

I see nothing wrong with it if you're not retarded.

I love when people who have barely if at all worked on cars tell mechanics how to do their job.

You get a pretty good feel for what the gun is doing. Obviously there are some things that should be tightened by hand and with a torque wrench, but for most suspension/drivetrain work, yeah, I'm using it.

No problem from me at all mate, if a mechanic treats my car the same as I do or better, I'm more than pleased! If some muppet spent 40 mins flicking through a service manual and winding a torque wrench up to do up a set of clevis bolts I'd probably call him a ****head.

I liberally yank apart every car I own to do various shit and I think I've used a torque wrench to set a pinion preload...and thats about it. Everything else...brrt, brrt, brrt, brrrrrrrrrrrrt, brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrt, brt, brrrt. We're not talking about torque to yield rod and head bolts here dude, we're talking about a couple of 12/14/16mm bolts in the suspension, yank that shit up tight.

I weep for the day one of you whingers needs to work out how to torque up a rack end on one of these....unless you are possibly the biggest retard on the planet and between working on cars spend your time licking windows and masturbating with silverwear; you quickly learn how much torque your gun is applying just from sight, feel, and noise. And the guys here who post shit about how much weight to set on double sided tape to put shark fins on etc...They have precisely zero business commenting on how someone does their job unless there is a problem with it. Which there isnt. Torque tubes are for muppets in tyre shops who like having bits of vanadium fly into paint work when they explode.

I agree. There is a wrong way and wrong time to use an impact. But I dont see anything wrong to be honest.

I like this guy.

I am reading your posts in an Australian accent. It makes it funnier.

well said. most with negative opinions have never been or will be a tech in the auto industry. when you know your tools and how to apply load using them you wont over torque or break bolts. its great to specifically torque everything down. but thats not always the case. half the places in a car you wont be able to use a torque wrench. what then...? you better learn the feel of stretching a bolt by hand otherwise your screwed. you guys are so worried about the quality of work and how they did a job. take your new car in for work at the glorified dealer and this is exactly what you get. you cant see they guy work on your car and these are the exact reasons why you are kept in the waiting room. yet the majority of you love the fact your car carries a warranty so its a double edged sword. your opinion is valued but this is the internet and everyone looks for something to comment on in order to voice there opinion to see how many people agree or disagree.....

These people can be called "internetz mechanicz"

you realize that YOUR car was built at the factory that uses all pneumatic air ratchets. These are not torque to yield head bolts...

Best response post ever...

I would never say that I am at the level of a mechanic as far as my automotive experience level is concerned, but after using an air ratchet and pretty much any other pneumatic tools that i could find, you do get a real sense for what they are doing.

As for people crying about torquing down suspension components...get a clue, torque figures on parts like that are a safe minimum to keep them from coming apart. Those bolts and their nuts/hardware are rated for far more torque than what a manual says and as anyone who has swapped out their crank pulley can attest to...there's no freakin way that thing was "just" 85 ft/lbs, i had to use a 3ft breaker bar to pop that sucker off, the last time i needed that much effort to remove a bolt was the rear wheel axle nuts on my '72 super beetle which you torqued to 150ft/lbs...

Coming from just an "internetz mechanic"...

I find it funny that we are confusing the "right way" from a technical perspective with the "right way" from a billing the most job hours perspective.

I've used air tools for quite a while, have a lift to use on my cars, etc and I do use air tools to remove everything and to snug everything, I just don't blast away at it like most mechanics do (I'm sure there are exceptions). There are actually very few things I actually torque (engine internals, transmission internals, driveline and wheels) so I don't exactly do it by the book either, but I've never had to stand at the end of a breaker bar to get a lug nut off my stuff like I've had to on cars that went to shops.

Fitting as many job/book hours into a work day is the concern of mechanics at shops, let's not kid ourselves on that. I'm not saying they don't care about doing quality work, but they will ALWAYS do things in the quickest possible way that will work.

Also, KW states, in BOLD, never to use an impact on the shaft nut because the high speed rotation of the shaft *CAN* damage the damper. It has happened before and has happened to OEM dampers already to a member of this site. That alone shows Vivid "doing it wrong". Also, in a "how-to" video once would expect them to be showing end users how to install the product, not how a shop would do so... Darren's how to/DIY is better for normal users here.

And I'm not completely against using an impact to tigthen, but I will acknowledge why I do it (speed and it's easy) and not try to claim it's the *correct* way of doing things. I impact the hell out of everything during pit stops with the race car (using feel and accurately, so I do understand where you guys on coming on that) but I don't when I have the time.

For the poster who mentioned factories, they tighten to stretch, loosen, then torque. Yes, with air tools, but precision, not based on the feel of the worker who happens to be on the assembly line that day.

The crank pulley example.. heat cycling, corrosion, etc all play a part there. Doesn't mean the bolt was installed with more than the specified torque spec.

Someone mentioned impact gun bad on lug nuts in this thread? I'd rather use an impact gun than a tire iron like some wannabe mechanics that put their full body weight into tightening a lug and rounding the lug because something slipped.

LOL for that there is no fixing stupid. That's why you keep a 90lb girl and a 1 foot long bar around..