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-   -   BRZ EQ Settings - Frequency Response Curve Test (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15696)

avholic 08-26-2012 01:44 PM

BRZ EQ Settings - Frequency Response Curve Test
 
Coincidentally, Subaru BRZ's OEM audio system's frequency response curve behaves like it's torque curve - there is a dip around 350 Hz (3500 rpm for the torque). I tweaked the EQ settings today, hoping to avoid upgrading the sound system and save a few bucks.

Below are my settings:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8291/7...d34d2f92_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8299/7...3a27bd1b_z.jpg


Below is the resulting Pink Noise frequency response curve. My goal was not to make it flat, but to make my BRZ sound like my home audio system with warm sound, clear mids, less harshness on high end, to minimize listening fatigue on long drives.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8428/7...1d6a287f_z.jpg


Here is a quick test of the resulting frequency response:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc3H__y_aW4"]2013 Subaru BRZ EQ Settings - Frequency Response Curve Test - YouTube[/ame]


Edit: Also try R2 fader setting as suggested by Spaceywilly.

GregV 08-26-2012 02:13 PM

So for us non audio engineers who have no idea what that video is showing us, these settings will make the factory stereo sound better?

avholic 08-26-2012 02:34 PM

It sounded better for me for general listening and different genres. Try using OEM flat or any of the preset settings. The vocals sound tiny, and the high frequencies are ear-splitting. By the way, that setting is for CD and Ipod inputs. I didn't even try tweaking for satellite, Siruis/XM sound horrible.

Spaceywilly 08-26-2012 02:43 PM

Just tried out those EQ settings, and it sounds great. I changed mine to R2 since I prefer a little more punchy bass, but overall it's a huge improvement in sound over what I was using before (basically same bass settings but more treble/midrange). I might have to pick up one of those sound analyzers... looks like a fun toy.

avholic 08-26-2012 02:49 PM

Glad you like it. I've had that device for a long time. Comes in handy whenever I have a new car, or when I add/change an audio component.

chandz05 08-26-2012 03:38 PM

Thanks I've been looking for something like this! I didn't like any of the preset EQ settings, and I'm definitely not an "audio" guy, so me playing around with it probably made it sound worse. Definitely gonna try these settings out today.

wheelhaus 08-26-2012 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregV (Post 403648)
So for us non audio engineers who have no idea what that video is showing us, these settings will make the factory stereo sound better?

An "ideal" audio system is one that can reproduce the original recording exactly as it was recorded. This means it produces a flat frequency response, so the speakers are actually producing measurably even response across the 20-20000Hz range in the environment. Most albums are mastered in a recording studio for perfect balance and sound quality, but not many people have a studio, or a dedicated listening room that has perfect acoustics and sound reproduction. Most listeners don't want a perfectly flat response, they want the music to have a little color, as the OP stated, warm, rich sound isn't perfectly flat.

Cars are high on the list of terrible listening environments. Aside from engine and road noise, cars have awful acoustics (control of how the sound moves around the space) lots of hard surfaces for reflection (such as glass) and very poor listener positioning (sitting off-center). The speaker positions are also screwy, with the mid-woofers and tweeters all being in different locations, and EVERY one being a different distance from the listener. What you normally end up with, is just sound mixed with noise. A lot of the "noise" is the sound you want to hear, just not exactly when/how you should be hearing it. You may be able to hear the music clearly, but probably not at high volume levels for very long, because it causes psychological listener fatigue. So you switch tracks, listen to another artist, or just turn it down.

By using the EQ, you have some control to achieve a flatter frequency response. This is always a goal of any audiophile (as a starting point). A flat frequency response could be very difficult to achieve in a car, especially with a typical OEM system. The speakers themselves probably don't produce a flat response, let alone in a screwy acoustic environment that affects frequencies even more. What you end up with is a system that has big spikes and dips from an audio analysis as shown above. Even if the processor says it's using a "flat" EQ curve, it's referring to the source signal, not the environment and the actual resulting sound quality. (Imagine listening to a perfectly adjusted high end stereo system through a cardboard tube on your ear. Sounds like crap, right?)

White noise and pink noise are both randomly generated "noise" that covers the entire spectrum from 20-20000Hz. This noise is used by analysis tools to measure what's being produced by a system. White noise uses even energy across the spectrum, whereas pink noise lowers the energy at higher frequencies (reduces 3dB per octave). Our ears hear sound logarithmically (on a curve) and are more sensitive to mid-range and high frequencies, so to the ear, a 100Hz bass tone at 70dB wouldn't sound as loud as a 4000Hz squeal tone at 70dB. White noise would sound level and even to a microphone, but pink noise would sound level and even to a human ear. With pink noise, that 4000Hz range would be about 15dB quieter, and it would sound about the same level as the 100Hz tone to the human ear.

By measuring what the stock system is actually doing (not just what it says onscreen) you can see what your ears are hearing, and you can make adjustments to fix some of the issues mentioned above. Hopefully for most, this does the trick and you've just improved your sound and saved a bundle on a bunch of audio stuff you don't need.

However, if you still need more, there's two key points to consider beyond amps and speakers if you're looking to make improvements. 1- sound deadening- (improving acoustic control of the environment). 2- time alignment- Time alignment is a critical step to make the sound appear accurate to the driver's position. This adjusts when the signals are sent to each speaker by adding a slight delay (sometimes only a few milliseconds) to the speakers closest to you. The goal is to get the sound from each speaker to reach your ears at the same time, with proper EQ and volume level. Many DSPs (digital signal processor) and some high end head units can use a calibrated microphone that will make this time adjustment automatically, and can also EQ each speaker individually in ways inaccessible to the user. What you end up with is a system that sounds clean, clear and accurate to your ears, like you're watching the performance happen right in front of you. Hardcore car audiophiles will also get into custom speaker placement and enclosures, but that's another topic.

S2kphile 08-26-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelhaus (Post 403763)
An "ideal" audio system is one that can reproduce the original recording exactly as it was recorded. This means it produces a flat frequency response, so the speakers are actually producing measurably even response across the 20-20000Hz range in the environment. Most albums are mastered in a recording studio for perfect balance and sound quality, but not many people have a studio, or a dedicated listening room that has perfect acoustics and sound reproduction.

Well-said :thanks:

And me let add this because this is, imo how music is produced today and it shouldn't be.

Quote:

Music isn't supposed to be bass heavy. It is supposed to be a base for the rest of the music to be supported upon, this is why if you listen to music on a small radio you hear mids and highs and it sounds ok for what it is, but put a full range speaker system in it's place and suddenly the music truly comes to life. The opposite of this is the 'norm' in today's hifi world where bass is overdone to the point where the bass takes over and doesn't let the music breathe. The pursuit of a balanced sound is what audiophiles are after. Clear and present bass, but balanced against warm, smooth mids and sparkling transparent highs. If these are all proportioned correctly you get something in the realm of magic.
To OP: I thought music is suppose to come from the front not the rear?

ngabdala 08-26-2012 03:58 PM

I tested these settings today. They are great

jpit 08-26-2012 04:09 PM

As mentioned before an auto is a poor listening environment if you are looking for a flat response. I did some comprehensive testing with a sound level meter in the BRZ
and I could get over a 12 db change just by moving the microphone a couple of inches. The problem I found with the stock speakers is a harshness that didn't seem to be correctable with the equilizer and a very narrow sound stage. There are many audiophiles that believe sound should only originate from the front. Several years ago Bose did some comprehensive measurements in a concert hall and discovered that 89% of the sound flowing to the ears was reflective and that's what helped give it depth. Have no idea what those measurements would be in a car, however, I feel that having ambient sound coming from the rear (adjusted properly) does add some depth to the sound. Whatever sounds best to the listener is the most important criteria.

GregV 08-26-2012 04:25 PM

Tried the settings in the OP and does sound noticeably better. I tried R2 as SpaceWilly suggested and I prefer that over the R4.

avholic 08-26-2012 04:49 PM

@S2kphile, Yes the sound image should be on the front stage, and the sweet spot should be on the driver's side. But I couldn't eliminate the harshness as what jpit mentioned. Hence I went for the rear-bias (as the rear speakers have better mid-range), but not too far to keep the vocals up-front. The db sensitivity of the front speakers appear higher due to glass reflection. So it doesn't hurt to have rear-bias. You may adjust the fader to R2 like Spaceywilly and GregV did. That option will also improve the bass response as the door-mounted mid-sub is considered front component by the fader.
@jpit, @wheelhaus, good info, thanks for sharing.

Spaceywilly 08-26-2012 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpit (Post 403789)
Several years ago Bose did some comprehensive measurements in a concert hall and discovered that 89% of the sound flowing to the ears was reflective and that's what helped give it depth..

I think several years ago might be a stretch, they started doing this back in 1968 with their 901 speakers which have 8 speakers facing the rear and 1 facing the front :)

jpit 08-26-2012 08:02 PM

I was trying to keep my age under wraps as I had a pair of the original 901s. Nine 6" speakers on a pedestal with an equilizer.

evasquez7 08-26-2012 08:37 PM

Just tried out the setting. Horrible. Maybe it's the kind of music I like (DnB) but it didn't sound good at all.

Brzce 08-26-2012 08:39 PM

Thanks avholic! Do you have any 'budget' upgrades in mind if your EQ settings fall short?

Superhatch 08-26-2012 08:45 PM

What are your SVC and ASL set for?

BRZWRB 08-26-2012 08:51 PM

Has anyone else noticed that with the basic audio setup (not Satnav) the rear speakers have almost no volume. If you increase the rears to +20 you can still only barely hear them. Is there a fault with the head unit or do I need to change the rears or install a small amp? Do they improve with the standard Subaru Satnav?

avholic 08-26-2012 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brzce (Post 404188)
Thanks avholic! Do you have any 'budget' upgrades in mind if your EQ settings fall short?

To be honest I haven't found an aftermarket component speaker that's an exact replacement for BRZ's 3 way front-speaker: sub (door) and mids+tweeter (dash). Most good aftermarkets are 2 way. A workaround is to unplug (w/o removing) the OEM mids on the dash and install a 2 way up front and possibly a sub along with amp(s). I'm still waiting for Crutchfield to do the fitment for BRZ/FRS and identifiy compatible speakers (size-wise) for the least mounting modifications.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superhatch (Post 404197)
What are your SVC and ASL set for?

SVC = 0
ASL = Mid

avholic 08-26-2012 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evasquez7 (Post 404185)
Just tried out the setting. Horrible. Maybe it's the kind of music I like (DnB) but it didn't sound good at all.

No problem. It all depends on personal preference and genre of music you listen to.

PMok 08-26-2012 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avholic (Post 404328)
No problem. It all depends on personal preference and genre of music you listen to.

avholic, what kind of music do you listen to? so we know what you eq'd it with the intention of listening to...

avholic 08-27-2012 12:16 AM

Mostly pop, dance, rock, techno.

Stu baru 08-27-2012 07:40 AM

Nice, a good improvement IMO. Thanks for taking the time to test and share the results.

Luke.Cariveau 08-27-2012 01:47 PM

Great contribution to the community!

avholic 08-27-2012 09:11 PM

No problem, that's what my login id stands for - self confessed audio-video-holic. :D

BRZ NA 08-27-2012 10:11 PM

just tried your setting today,it sounds a lot better than before,thx for your nice sound setting.but only concern is that i need to turn up my Vol high in order to hear.like around 33 on the Vol.is there an adjustment that can keep the same sound quality but don't have to turn Vol that high?thx

Quote:

Originally Posted by avholic (Post 403604)
Coincidentally, Subaru BRZ's OEM audio system's frequency response curve behaves like it's torque curve - there is a dip around 350 Hz (3500 rpm for the torque). I tweaked the EQ settings today, hoping to avoid upgrading the sound system and save a few bucks.

Below are my settings:

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8291/7...d34d2f92_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8299/7...3a27bd1b_z.jpg


Below is the resulting Pink Noise frequency response curve. My goal was not to make it flat, but to make my BRZ sound like my home audio system with warm sound, clear mids, less harshness on high end, to minimize listening fatigue on long drives.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8428/7...1d6a287f_z.jpg


Here is a quick test of the resulting frequency response:

2013 Subaru BRZ EQ Settings - Frequency Response Curve Test - YouTube


Edit: Also try R2 fader setting as suggested by Spaceywilly.


hav0c 08-27-2012 10:46 PM

Seems like a big difference between cheap audio and quality audio is performance at different levels of volume. good gear sounds nice at any level but even most bad gear will sound ok loud after adjusting it. This is why sales people turn it way up.

I hear this with my brz - the best I can do is make it listenable at high dbs (thanks OP!) But still crappy as background. Its workable until I can afford some upgrades though. no eq settings eq settings can substitute for a proper setup though.

avholic 08-28-2012 12:11 AM

... what havOc said ^^^. There's not really much we can do with the paper cones and tinfoil tweeters installed in the BRZ. Their response vary at at different levels. I wish my BRZ stereo sounds like my 335i's system but cant really complain at this price point.

In regards to having to turn the volume meter up to get proper listening levels - I intentionally tuned it at that level because that is the nominal point of the amp: high enough to get decent signal to noise ratio and low enough to prevent distortion up to 75% volume level. That is the rule of thumb for adjusting amp gain, but as we know the amp gain knob (if there's one) is not accessible in the oem BRZ system. You may adjust the input source level as a work-around.

Hope this answers your question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRZ NA (Post 406421)
just tried your setting today,it sounds a lot better than before,thx for your nice sound setting.but only concern is that i need to turn up my Vol high in order to hear.like around 33 on the Vol.is there an adjustment that can keep the same sound quality but don't have to turn Vol that high?thx


BRZ NA 08-28-2012 12:56 AM

yeah,thx man u did a good job.:clap:


Quote:

Originally Posted by avholic (Post 406661)
... what havOc said ^^^. There's not really much we can do with the paper cones and tinfoil tweeters installed in the BRZ. Their response vary at at different levels. I wish my BRZ stereo sounds like my 335i's system but cant really complain at this price point.

In regards to having to turn the volume meter up to get proper listening levels - I intentionally tuned it at that level because that is the nominal point of the amp: high enough to get decent signal to noise ratio and low enough to prevent distortion up to 75% volume level. That is the rule of thumb for adjusting amp gain, but as we know the amp gain knob (if there's one) is not accessible in the oem BRZ system. You may adjust the input source level as a work-around.

Hope this answers your question.


BRZY 09-02-2012 05:00 AM

huge improvement. those with iphones and ipods, remember to turn off the EQs on the devices.

TheRipler 09-02-2012 08:14 AM

Awesome info. Thanks for sharing!

As far as the sound stage goes, I understand how someone might want to visualize a stage in front of them with a nice audio setup. As mentioned, cars are far from an ideal environment, and it just seems absurd. You can always hear the tires in this thing. It's a sports car, not a studio. Why try to be audiophile when you're purposefully pumping extra intake noise into the cabin?

Put the band in the back seat, and let me imagine the next apex in front of me. - my $.02

JoeBoxer 09-02-2012 08:28 AM

I wish I had that EQ on my bespoke instead of the different pre-defined settings. I do like my 3 pair of RCA outputs though.

#87 09-02-2012 09:08 AM

I noticed my sound was really low when I got the BRZ. I found a setting that adjusts the base voulme, forget the name but I set it to +10 and now dont really have to turn the volume over 20 unless im on the highway with the windows down.

JWA 09-02-2012 12:21 PM

I am very happy with these settings (the R2 version) - Thanks!

ShoGun 01-02-2013 06:09 PM

Awesome advice! I went with everything OP posted except for raising the 6.3k up to the midway bar and R2. Sounds nice and smooth

brzninja 01-04-2013 09:07 AM

I can actually stand listening to music in my BRZ now. Thank you so much!

developer 01-04-2013 11:45 AM

Thank you, mine sounds much better now too. :thanks:

Now, if someone could miracle the XM radio into sounding better. My XM sound quality is somewhere in between AM and FM (Much closer to AM).

SubieNate 01-04-2013 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRipler (Post 417511)
Awesome info. Thanks for sharing!

As far as the sound stage goes, I understand how someone might want to visualize a stage in front of them with a nice audio setup. As mentioned, cars are far from an ideal environment, and it just seems absurd. You can always hear the tires in this thing. It's a sports car, not a studio. Why try to be audiophile when you're purposefully pumping extra intake noise into the cabin?

Put the band in the back seat, and let me imagine the next apex in front of me. - my $.02

If you want to visualize the band in front of you and it doesn't cost anything to make the stereo sound a bit more like that, then who cares?

A nice stereo is a godsend on an I-5 trek from LA to Frisco. Not a whole lot of apexes to hit there. ;)

Nathan

wheelhaus 01-04-2013 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubieNate (Post 644426)
If you want to visualize the band in front of you and it doesn't cost anything to make the stereo sound a bit more like that, then who cares?

A nice stereo is a godsend on an I-5 trek from LA to Frisco. Not a whole lot of apexes to hit there. ;)

Nathan

Agreed. Ive learned to at least appreciate almost anything others do to/with their cars, even if I don't agree with it. The BRZ is a daily driver for most of us, and long commutes or road trips are made all the better with good audio since not every drive is through a canyon or a track day. Some of us like to blend our hobbies. :party0030:

TheRipler 01-04-2013 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubieNate (Post 644426)
If you want to visualize the band in front of you and it doesn't cost anything to make the stereo sound a bit more like that, then who cares?

A nice stereo is a godsend on an I-5 trek from LA to Frisco. Not a whole lot of apexes to hit there. ;)

Nathan

I don't begrudge others for wanting it, but I wish it could be undone. My gripe is more that I'm stuck with it.


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