motor trend: next WRX based on ft86
 

hey, i've been gone for a little bit, but have you guys seen this?
subaru saying that the next WRX will be based on the ft86 platform, and could have a monster engine + AWD
!!!! yeah!!!!!
=D


http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...way/index.html

270-300hp out of a 1.6L....reliably? with warranty? Lasting a few hundred-thousand miles with proper care?

They have to have that engine size wrong in that article. I know tech has come a long way, but thats near impossible out of a 1.6L with today's emission/MPG government regulations, as well as making sure it'll last longer than a 20k mile powertrain warranty.

Otherwise this article doesn't really tell us anything new. We already knew that the WRX and Impreza were parting ways. I added months ago it was probably to allow the Impreza to be the car IT'S supposed to be, same with the WRX. A few people were just saying "nah, just separating the name." Bogus, the Impreza has been holding back the WRX from its true potential, while the WRX has been keeping production costs up on the Impreza for years now.

yeah, it was posted a while back.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...ght=Motortrend

ah lol... i kinda figured! you guys are always pretty johnny on the spot with the news for sure... haha

If Subaru is going back to WRC then the 1.6L makes sense.

But not that HP stock. 200~240 is pushing government requirement MPG & etc I would say...

Yeah 270 might be hard from a 1.6. But they could do it. Just will cost $$. If they dropped 300-400lbs, 240hp would be fun. :)

For all you naysayers yes it is very very possible for 280-300hp out of a 1.6L direct injection turbo car.

My Mini Cooper S is a 1.6L it makes 208hp/190tq, horsepower cuts out at 5600rpm and torque peaks at 1500rpm. Give the WRX a slightly larger twin-scroll turbo and it's easily achievable to make that to the crank, especially with direct injection and dual avcs. It's nothing new.

Remember the 2.0 STI in JPN can put down 300s to the wheels on stock turbo, that's with old tech EJ motors with no direct injection too.

K then give me the list of cars that have 1.6L w 280~300hp stock w price tag.

You're implying that to achieve 280-300hp on a 1.6L Turbo is very hard, well it's not. Subaru will already save a lot of money using the chassis they built for the FT and then modifying it for use with this car, that will go into engine dynamics. Go on Mini forums and see how many are putting down 220whp(est. 260hp to the motor, which is what the msrp sticker would list) with stock ko3 turbo, intake, exhaust and flash. Also just by using a vf34 or ko4(jcw) you can attain 240+whp(est. 290-300hp) without sacrificing low end due to the DI tuning and twin-scroll technology.

So with that said for $25WRX or 35kSTI starting, yes it is VERY possible for the new WRX and/or STI to put that down. From a financial and engineering perspective it can happen.

You're not getting my point. Of course STI team can make 300hp w 1.6L engine for WRC. If that was the case, why in the fuck other STi/STI didn't never came w 500~600tq stock huh? They loose $ if they do those kind of moron stuff. Tuning it, yes it is possible. Stock, that'll NEVER happening

Even IF they do use FRS chassis, they have to redesign it anyways. In the end, it'll still cost them.

Again, what Utah gotta do w anything? I don't care you post where I live, but it's pointless.

Yeah I agree with ichi on this, there is no way subaru is going to make those specs for their production cars, can they? Hell yeah, but there is little chance that they would ever consider such a wild motor... for now.

None of us ever said you couldn't make those numbers from a 1.6L turbo, and it certainly wouldn't be hard for the STI team to do so....we said they couldn't do it while maintaining emission and MPG standards, as well as the car having any form of noticeable powertrain warranty, etc. There's a difference between the official company WRC car, and putting something out on the dealers lots that they can actually sell respectively. For instance, in California, it doesn't do much good to spend $40k (thats after taxes, fees, etc.) on a brand new car that can't pass inspection...now does it?

The article doesn't do a good job of discerning what car they're talking about when it comes to that 300hp figure. The WRC car? Or the STI that's coming to the dealer lots? 250hp max I'd say for the stock STI, and thats only to keep the car respectable for the streets.

Also, your hp figures on the Mini....you don't lose 40hp in powertrain loss on a fronter. I'd estimate that 220whp figures out to 230hp to the flywheel. Hell even if the cooper were RWD...that's a tiny ass powertrain, still wouldn't lose 40hp.

I think 300 hp is the technical limit the WRC tries to impose with restrictors and what-not. They would likely make the production version just powerful enough to be a tiny bit faster in a straight line than the outgoing model.

And much like the FT86, picking that HP number comes down to knowing the weight of the vehicle. Ugh...

300hp out of a 1.6l? They must've crossed wires with an RX9 article somewhere. :)

He was probably basing those numbers off the usual given 12-15% drivetrain loss. That doesn't seem too unreasonable. For your figures to make sense, there would have to be a 4% drivetrain loss to the wheels, which simply isn't the case.

I'm not understanding why so many people are finding 300bHP out of a 1.6L to be so farfetched in regards to reliability and cost. This thing is supposed to drop two years from now and we've been making big power with small displacement for a while now. It's not as though they're shooting for 1.6L NA 300bHP, there are plenty of options they could explore. Take the new tri-turbo M3 that'll be making it's debut in 2014, they're running two turbos (larger than the current N54 platform turbos) and a third electric turbo for low end. There isn't enough info on this thing to rule out their figures as impossible.

So called "Anti" aren't saying 1.6L 300hp isn't possible. Just saying it's not realistic #s. If that was the case, we would of seen any drivetrain w 1.6L turbo in recent car would of came w 300hp.

I know Subaru's technology have came long way... but twin turbo isn't gonna come out. Last time they did stock twin turbo, they failed bad... really bad. Twin turbo space isn't available for lhd (US cars) due to all the nightmare BS... unless they wanna do it like current Legacy... but that still have several problems to resolve.

They gonna use EL15 engine and bore it 0.1L... Current EL15 is joke. Yes, it come w DOHC & AVCS, but it weight & size about same as EJ (due to they use same parts). powerless & gutless. Yes, current EL is NA, so that's one of the reason for been powerless & gutless. MPG sucks as well, it has about same MPG as 2L (EJ20E).

Now, iirc Crawford or Cosworth gonna help w this project, but until I actually see the official spec, realistically 200~240hp is good #s for 1.6L stock.

Trust ichi, he knows his Subaru. Like I said earlier, 240hp can still be a lot of fun in a AWD car if they drop the weight down as well.

I would like to have a look at the EL15 motor. Its one Subaru motor Ive actually never looked at.

I quite like the wee EJ15 Motor with roller cams. Its a nice wee unit.

This just reminded me that in the 80s BMW created a Formula 1 engine based on the M10 that pumped out 1000hp @11,000rpms from a turbo 4cylinder 1.5liter.

With todays casting technologies, and other various items you could add to engine today vs 10-20 years ago. The problem why so many people are skeptical about a 300hp 1.6liter is because it isn't an engine a lot of people are familiar with. And only a hand full of people have any experience with 1.6 4cylinders that pump out that much power on old technology and old engine designs.

In todays automotive world, turbocharging is coming back with the fist of an angry god.

Citrroen DS3 WRC - 1.6L Turbo i-4 300hp
http://www.distrocar.com/2011-citroe...rged-di-engine

2013 Hyundai Veloster - Reports that a 1.6L Turbo I-4 200hp w/40mpg

Even small displacement engines with turbos are coming back to Formula 1 in 2013/2014

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--..._2258693_n.jpg

Carb cleaner really makes those pistons sparkle. ;)

I'm surprised how much rage occurred here. As someone who has watched the 1 1/2 liter engines for a while I can say that 270PS(not BHP) is completely doable with a factory turbo 1.6L. It just hasn't been done before. The size is rarely turboed and rev happy since it's more commonly used to replace a torquer bigger 4 banger. The Veloster, Ford 1.6L turbo, Mini turbo, etc are all making peak power at 5-6k RPM. If a 1.6L with peak power past the 6k mark that makes 85BHP per liter was turbocharged to 1 bar it would make around 272BHP.

Getting it reliable just depends on how it's built.
Cheers!

That's the problem w EL15. It should be reliable, but it's not. That's what I'm trying to say.

If they actually make 1.6L turbo w 300hp, I'm totally cheering for them... but I'm worry that how much mess they gonna go through in yr or so later.

wut.

The new engine isn't going to be a turboed version of the N/A EL15 it's going to be a worked over all out turbo engine right? Isn't that typically what Subaru does with their WRX lineup?

And the target is 270PS or 265BHP. Not 300BHP. It's for the WRX not the STI ;).

iirc I thought they gonna be using EL15 engine and bore it 0.1L and blah blah blah for compatible for turbo. Just so far, I'm not hearing good feedback on EL15 engine on tuning.

Again, I can see stock 200~240hp (240hp was original WRX hp #s). As for STI they really need to work on internal IF they wanna push 280~300hp.

I would like a 1.5 liter engine that pumps out 300hp

Sounds like a very special engine.:bow:

and that engine should be a boxer ...and in a balance chassis..and lightweight.

It will be really hard for them to sell the cars with less HP even if the weight is way down. Buyers are just stubborn that way sometimes. I think they could do 265 with a dedicated performance design, reliably (easily, if they have to homologate it for racing). And the North American STI could always go with a 2.0L turbo 'big block' version (beefed up turbo FT86 motor) and make 300+ no problem, while maybe the Euro and JDM STI gets a crazy VGT turbo 1.6L that revs out to 8500 and has 18 pounds of boost. :)

Just like Current STIs ;)

Yup. :)

Another render:


http://autoten.com/wp-content/upload...ru-WRX-STI.jpg

http://autoten.com/wp-content/upload...-rendering.jpg

That's actually not that bad looking it's not much too different from the current but I don't mind the current one either it's nice.

looks pretty damn boring or well not very evolutionary

looks VERY ordinary..kinda BORING

Says the guy driving a Honda Fit.

I don't think that is going to happen, as they are talking about a non-Impreza WRX/STI. But no one is quite sure if they mean just a branding/badge separation (in which case that blue car could be valid) or the prospect of a modified FT86 platform with AWD and a turbo (in which case it will be nothing like the blue render).

2011 Honda Fit Sport (Taffeta White) with manual transmission.:burnrubber:

You guys have got it all wrong. The 'new' wrx/sti is coming in 2014, and WILL NOT be based on the FT86.

You guys are right about the 1.6L for rally, but expect it to be a 2L for production. The new Rex is going to be about the size of a feista, and weigh about 1200kg.

We have those on our showroom floors right now in Australia. These are just the current model, that will be sold along side of the new impreza until 2014. No wrx/Sti will be based on this new impreza platform. I take it you guys only get the hatch over there in USA?