Help With Brake Job Shopping List
 

At the risk of sounding like a total newb, I'd like a second+ set of eyes on my brake shopping list. I've got a '13 FRS and other than fluid the entire brake system is the original equipment, plus an MC brace. Been using regular dot4 until now. What the car NEEDS is bleeding the brakes, but if I'm going to put time into that I want to just do the rest of it at the same time.

I use the FRS for autocross on 200tw once or twice a month, and occasionally drive it around town in good weather or when my other car is not available. Looking to do HDPE at some point in the future, but I can swap pads if I need to when I get to that point. Looking to try an upgrade from OEM stuff. Alternatives, anecdotes, additions, or subtractions are appreciated.

Shopping List:

Fluid: ~1L of Motul RBF600 - because it's not expensive and better than what I've been using

Pads: Ferodo DS2500 front and rear - these were recommended by someone much faster than I at my last event, but $$$. Willing to spend what I need to, but if there's a better pad for my use for less money I'll consider it.

Rotors: OEM/Subaru rotors front and rear - do these NEED to be replaced, probably not. But it's been 10 years and if I'm spending $400 on pads I might as well get new rotors to pair them with? Is this silly?

Lines: new OEM/Subaru rubber brake lines - same situation as rotors, current lines look fine. Was recommended to stay away from SS lines because of reliability issues but I figure new oem lines will last another 10 years with no headaches at least.

Anything I'm missing or should be including?

My mantra for the next 48 hours. "I don't need a BBK. I DON'T need a BBK. I don't NEED a BBK?"

overall agreed on what you've got so far.

i think the biggest question in regards to the pads is, are the oem pads limiting your current track experience, or do you anticipate them to in the future?

i don't really see a reason to change the pads to something more extreme unless you're experiencing issues during those few track sessions. it will definitely affect the street, dusting, and characteristics.

if you're still looking for a pad alternative, i would suggest looking through the pads at counter space garage. they support the forum here, and also are likely to chime in on a better specific formulation they offer that would suit street driving with some track use.

if you do decide to go bbk, go with the AP Racing front rotor kit. the brake bias is maintained, and i believe the pads are parts-store standard stuff, so still easily available to try many different compounds if desired.

rotors, i would inspect the current rotors-- if they're close to half their life, it's worth changing them. otherwise, if they've still got a lot of life left, no real reason to. but +1 on replacing with oem-spec rotors. slotted/drilled really offer no advantage, and any of the other boutique brands really just have higher pricing to justify the name.


i did my fluid at the recommended 30k interval. other than going from dark-colored to nearly clear, there was no feeling difference.

i didn't change pads/rotors because i'm curious to see how far i can go on the stocks

If the rotors look fine I would leave them. Centric blanks are fine, I don’t think I would bother buying OEM. Centric is probably who makes them anyway.

Pads: I'm looking to experiment with more performance-oriented pads and see how they are. I really don't know if the stock pads are limiting anything because I haven't tried anything else on this car. Maybe I'll hate them, maybe I'll wonder why I didn't upgrade years ago. CSG Spec pads are quite a bit more expensive than the Ferodos though, and I haven't found a good comparison between the two to explain that difference.

AP Racing: Yep, that's the kit I definitely don't need...

Rotors: Getting the car up today to check rotors, I tried measuring with the wheels on and that said 24.3mm which would be pretty odd considering they came as 24mm. But they look like they are developing some grooves on them so idk.

It seems I get OEM rotors for less than Centric Premiums though. It's really strange lol.

Even the rears? For me, front rotors from dealer were reasonable. Rears were a joke. Even the parts guy was shocked.


Don't do a BBK unless you're looking for ways to use up any free time you have now. ;)

I think the rears are a bit more expensive than the Centric replacement, but not much.
From the same site:

Rear, $63
https://www.subarupartsdeal.com/part...6700aj010.html

Front, $64
https://www.subarupartsdeal.com/part...6300sa001.html

Plus shipping of course.

Edit, now I'm looking closer, I think Centric might be a few bucks cheaper at each corner.

Lube on hand in case the slide pins are not moving freely. MD winter might necessitate new slide pin and piston boots but the ones in my ‘13 are still doing their job. Sandpaper to clean up any buildup on the caliper clips.

I really like my ds2500 but am contemplating trying trd pads for Street/autox because it’s like <$200 for a full set. I have overcooked Street only pads before.

I just looked at my receipt. Fronts were $73/ea Front pad kit was $107, and rear kit was $86.

If you are going to do HPDE on 200tw tires, you might want to consider a more dedicated track pad for those events.

I run HPDE 2 at Summit Point on 200tw tires. I use Carbotech xp 10 on Ebay rotors.

You mentioned hearing about problems with SS braided lines. Do you have any specific information?

Toyota service manual calls for new rubber bushings all around with each pad change. I picked them all up myself along with the fancy Toyota grease when I did my brake job.

Let me know if you need the part numbers I can find my invoice for you when I get home.

Ok, first of all, there is quite a difference between doing a fluid change vs. Full brake job.

Do your brakes need changing?

I like the DS2500. If you go that route, sounds like they would be plenty good for the level you are at.

For me, if I was doing full brake job I would have rotors turned or replaced.

Yeah, I'm not opposed to switching out pads for a track event, but that's definitely a 2024/2025 problem.

A few folks left anecdotal comments early in my build thread when I was thinking about SS lines, along with other posts I've seen around the forum. I have no personal experience with SS lines.

That's interesting, I have never heard of that. All the bushings I can see are still in good shape though so I think I'll be fine for now. Been slowly going around with poly bushings anyway.

I've had braided lines on several cars and never had a problem. You have to buy the good ones.

Well, I did say "brake job shopping list" in the title. ;)

Pads, fluid, rotors, lines, lube? Did I miss anything?

Ferodo DS2500 perform well for street/autox, but they dust like mad. Real pain in the butt in that category.

he means the brake pin sliders. not the suspension bushings.

makes sense, as i've had previous cars where i didn't replace the sliders/boots, just added grease, and weeks later they'd seize up...

No no there is a bushing on the slide pin itself

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134192

here is what I ordered from my local toyota dealer

SU00300576 Slide Pin Bush X4

088783010 Rubber-G 100G X1

Service manual if you need it. Will also back up that toyota says to change them
https://gt86stuff.onrender.com/t3Por..._rm_index.html

Could you clarify what rubber bushing to which the Service manual refers? Did they mean the slide pin "boots"?

I posted all the details right above your comment :)

Thanks for the responses all.

On the pad front I think I'm going to stick with the ds2500 (is that a pun?).

On the state of the current brakes, the rotors aren't too worn, down 0.2 mm from standard all around, but they do have grooves forming. The pads are at about 4-5mm from a visual inspection, which is 25-30% of original thickness. So the brakes don't absolutely need to be changed right this moment, I could just do fluid (which the car needs badly). Still going to change them. Going with new rotors for now, I'll still look into getting the originals resurfaced.

'Final' list:
-RBF600 - 1L
-DS2500 front and rear
-OEM rotors front and rear
-OEM brake lines front and rear
-Brake system lube - whatever parts store has I guess. I swear I had some...
-Slide pin sleeves - so weird

Note: Slide pin boots look good to me without disassembly, if I do find a bad one during the job, the Toyota dealership can usually get stuff next day if they don't have it on hand.

Castrol srf race would last much longer than rbf600. Also those slide pin bushings or whatever you want to call them require a certain type of grease. At least that is what I saw online lol. I haven’t had any issue with the grease I got from Toyota so I would recommend that over something random you find at the auto parts store

Agree.

Ferodo DS2500 are a good "aggressive" street/canyon/autox pad that feels pretty good, dusts a lot, and can take a little heat. I still wouldn't track them on 200tw tires. There are slightly cheaper, slightly more street oriented pads that would probably do the trick, but if you're set on the Ferodos that's okay.

Motul 600 is fine and inexpensive. There are other options here too...Motul will get the job done but tends to need to be replaced a little more frequently.

I also would not use stainless steel lines without frequent inspections. I use OEM lines.

Definitely make sure everything moves nice and smoothly, no stiction etc...so good call on the lube and slide pins.

- Andrew

I am curious about problems with SS brake lines. I always thought they were a bullet proof upgrade to stock lines.

Different car, but I was using a reputable brand of SS lines. They moved or shifted enough that they rubbed on something and eventually a hole formed which meant pedal to the floor on a highway offramp. All good in the end, but it was pretty unpleasant.

The way some brands SS lines are secured in the wheel well is...well...not as secure as OEM. Other people have had different types of failures. There are many different brands of SS lines out there, it's one of those parts that just gets pumped out because they're easy to make or adapt from other fitments.

Mostly the benefit is small if any and the potential for failure is way higher. OEM lines are plenty stiff.

- Andrew

SS lines are a braided SS sleeve over a plastic hose. You have to be careful you don't kink them, the sleeve can also chafe the hose. I've always heard inspect regularly.

Yes, you need to buy SS lines made specifically for the car that are proper length with same mounts as oem rubber lines. You would get the same bad results using the wrong rubber lines.

And yes, they are bling.

I just finished off a set of DS2500's The fronts anyways. I was doing well at first but by the end of day one they declined. I've been sanding them between track days and babying them on track days. I did better with Hawk DTC 30 and 60. I just had a set of DS3.12 arrive today. I don't know what DS2500 they would be like on AutoX

Day 1

Take Toyota’s service manual requirements with a ‘grain of salt’. They play it safe and replace many items which may not be at end of life. That’s why dealer serviced Toyotas last forever.
Regarding pads, consider Stoptech Sports for a great DD and occasional track day solution. I cannot comment on there autocross capabilities but do use them for DD-Lapping and am very satisfied. They last, don’t destroy rotors and they’re cheap!

I use ferodo DS 2500 on track, I got mine on Amazon for pretty cheap. They do the job and have lasted 20 mins sessions for me. I am new to the track, first year, so my needs were not demanding, I am also on factory PS4 tires. I am not getting 200tw any soon though, may be 4S (or S5).

I am planning to get CSG CP pads next though, to compare the life, road and track performance etc. As per as I ahve heard they last longer (twice) even if they cost double and also perform better. So seems like it saves the job of changing them once.

For fluid I use Castrol SRF, it lasts longer (2x) and costs more (3-4x). I hate the bleeding job more than pad changes.

Ordering OEM brake parts is a PITA apparently because all the sites seem to think there are 3 different parts that will fit unless you have a Subaru VIN and even then my guess is they are confused. Nobody seems to have mapped out what part numbers go to the US spec rotors, and the descriptions don't say anything about size, so I decided to order Centric instead.

As for the brake lines, there are apparently 3 options for 2013. Knowing build date seems to help, but then there are 2 options for rear lines on the same date. Took a chance on what seemed most likely based on similarity to the front PN. Idk it's $30.

I'll report on the PNs if it works I guess.

Maybe go to a store?

That is something I did not try. I didn't think AutoZone or NAPA would stock or order OEM Subaru/Toyota parts, it was my understanding that they would get an "equivalent" part, but usually at much greater cost than online distributors. Is my understanding incorrect?

This is specifically a problem with the Subaru/Toyota parts because they do not have good descriptions in some cases. If I wanted something "equivalent" I'd just hit up Rockauto or Amazon, which I did with the rotors. MSRP at a local dealership parts counter is way higher than what it costs online so I'd rather not go there if I don't need the part right away.

The oem pads kinda suck anyway. I found them to be pretty difficult to remove when pad swapping at the track and they can be noises at times. I did see others having the same issue on a Facebook thread awhile back.

I will be switching to a oem + pad for street usage at some stage

I've got a Toyota dealer that I like to buy parts from, if there's confusion on which part calling up one of their employees on the phone can help sort out the problem since they have more information then gets put on the generic website.

Ordering oem online and picking up at the dealer on the way home from work or over to work on the car has been aces. Prices have been completely in-line with buying non-oem parts online + shipping. Like, I might spend less then 5% more vs. say exedy or bosch or ngk.

I hate interacting with people too, but dealership parts counter people aren't working on commission, they've got access to a regional warehouse and whatever profit the owner targets and that's that.

They're geeks too, guy was excited to hand truck out my shortblock lol.

I learned this about 10 years ago buying Nissan parts when they had weird stuff in stock nobody else could get and were cheaper too. A couple dealers slap insane markups on their parts and I had one or two Subaru dealers require a Subaru VIN which I didn't have so I just went down the block to Toyota.

Here in Ontario Canada I have found Toyota parts are about 60% of what the Subaru dealers ask, for the same part. That said, the Subi dealer has some items in inventory (likely due to parts crossing between Subi models) while Toyota dealers rely on overnight supply from the Toronto Parts Distribution Ctr.

I've had the Toyota dealership have to fly stuff in from CA more than once.

My Toyota dealership always has everything I need.