EL vs UEL Header Showdown
 

Plus an in-depth view of clearing your oil pickup.

Thought you will enjoy this episode.

https://youtu.be/oMjJgCpFhOs

Very timely video as I just put CSG era ACE350 on my 2022. Now I don't feel so bad for saving them.

Thanks strat!

Before I spend almost half an hour watching this, when you put the headers on did you give each one a specific dyno tune? Or did you just throw them on?

Looks like they threw them on and didn’t disclose that they tuned them specifically for the car. They both made same peak hp/trq. The unequal filled in so torque dip the equal headers did not.

So unless they dyno both of them specifically and have it tuned for the same car on the same dyno then the data to me would be relatively inconclusive other than if Ricky Bobby slapped this on his car and called it a day with a negligible difference other than a sound preference.

Ugh, so they are just perpetuation the UEL for low end, EL for top end myth. It's pretty well known that the ACE needs a lot of changes to the AVCS tables.

So basically a useless comparison? Although judging by what I see in the FB groups, I can bet a large portion of guys do just that.

Unless op tells us the details I would say it makes sense if you just plan on putting headers on with no tune. So in regards to “which style header makes more power without a tune” would be more accurate video description but doesn’t necessarily end the “vs” part without tuning them both.

Even that is not really that comparable though. Not all UEL's and not all EL's are the same. Just looking at where the Borla is compared to the JDL, you can clearly see the JDL is longer with bigger primaries. This is probably having a much larger effect then EL vs UEL. Longer tube headers on the first gen seem to need a much more attention to the AVCS table. The ACE needs a much different table, as does the nameless to take advantage. Way too many factors are changing here to just call this EL vs UEL.

Edit: And I am not just putting this out there to criticize the OP, but when you put stuff like this out there it is fodder for discussion.

Haven't watched the vid, but just to add to the conversation...

Another way to do an untuned comparison is to reset the ECU before each set of pulls. Otherwise, all your Long-Term trims are going to be based on what WAS in the car. Resetting the ECU will give you results that are not biased or skewed and will be based on how the car naturally makes power. The argument can be made that 'they need a tune', and of course that's always a good idea to optimize power and efficiency, but none of these products are going to push any tables out of range, they just wouldn't be optimized, but at least the test would be more comparable.

I see the lines on the graph, but what are the actual numbers?

I recommend watching the video. Each header we tested we optimized the calibration for.

Interesting. Very surprised to see the UEL coming out on top. I'm running the JDL EL on mine but have not taken it to a dyno. Scary amount of sealant on the pickup though! Mine was only about 40% clogged IIRC.

This is an early car - not sure if that makes much difference in terms of the sealant.



I was honestly surprised myself to not see more gains from the EL headers in the top end like we see with the 2.0 motor. There was no further power to extract there. There is just a touch more past the peak - but we are talking a couple hp - right in the same area we saw the gains with the intake.



The OEM headers on the 2.4 are quite bit better than what the 2.0 had to start with as well.

It seems like the engine is just plain out of flow up top, interestingly.

The ports look to be very similarly sized to the 2.0 if not identical.



I have to revisit the cams - but if that's another area of interest on the 2.4.

Yeah, the OEMs are much better at optimizing things from the factory these days.

It's not like the Fox-body/SN95 days, where you could do a CAI, Throttle Body, header and full exhaust and pick 35%hp and 45%tq.

Go UEL for sound more than anything, if you like the subie rumble. If not get EL. The power difference is not earth shattering and likely only matters if you are racing competitively.

You just hurt a lot of people’s feelings. They may want to put “el” as a windshield banner flexing their several hp more then Uel. Ha ha

I see no point in doing exhaust but if I do definitely uel first. Ye olde 4 banger sound gets old. “Bro el header makes these cars sound deep (hits vape pen) it doesn’t sound like a normal 4 cylinder.”

I assume they are tongue in cheek calling this the "ultimate" UEL/EL shootout.

One UEL header they have been tuning for the car over time, one EL they pop on and go bang (they lost top end on their "tune"), and one more that wasn't actually tested on the car.

I was enjoying his videos, but this one just seems a bit rubbish.

Fixed for Subi accuracy.


Anywho, the 2.4 is certainly responding differently than the 2.0, with their particular tune at least. BUT, the 2.4l has also been saddle with headers designed for an engine 20% smaller so theres that. E85 is still looking like the best bang for the buck, no surprise.

Does it really matter so long as the header tubes at the flange are still larger that the ports in the head?

Yes, it does. The OEM MY23+ manifold has larger primary and secondaries compare to MY13-21.

I'm not talking about the stock headers.

I am trying to explain that it clearly makes a difference because OEM made a design change so it applies to aftermarket designs as well. I referenced them to substantiate my claim. JDL is redesigning their EL header with slightly larger primaries for the 2.4l as well.

JDL was one of very few aftermarket headers that made headers with big enough runners to adapt to a second gen in the first place. I'm surprised the Tomei did as well as it did on this dyno, I've seen it *lose* power up top on other second gens because it can't flow enough.

More than happy to tune and optimize headers as I come across them and if manufacturers send them in on our development car. We've had a pretty good sample and have spent many hours on the dyno optimizing each setup and controlling for variables. The numbers and measurements don't lie - I am not in any camp here - sharing the information objectively. We don't design headers but we do certainly know how to optimize a calibration.

I wonder what you call your video once you have more than 2 UEL and 1 EL header to test in a day.

"Super Ultimate UEL/EL header shootout"?

/s

More seriously, with the amount of pulls and tuning you did for your original header, do you think that there is a potential bias within the mapping? Its not like you went through much of the process of what you would change for a EUL or EL tune, and any things you found with that.

Personally I think a better test would be to get as many NA modified cars as reasonably possible at a dyno day and see what happens.

Doesn't make sense that nothing would be lost by going UEL when the car stock uses EL and pretty much every similar car makes more on the top with EL. Maybe those headers require more tuning? maybe higher octane fuel limits gains.

Just doesn't make sense that the cheapest UEL is the best option.