End of the era
 

I was told the 86 platform is done, there will be no 2024's. The 86 cars end this year. Local Toyota dealer salesperson/friend told us last night.

Please tell me they're wrong?

Deadass facts bro? Shiii.

I asked some pointed questions if this was insider information. She said no, if she knew it is now public info.

I'm in the denial phase right now. Ah well, great run. Aftermarket is still a literal candy store due to the platform overlap with subi.

maybe its because the new 86 will launch with a subi engine but rather using Toyota 3 cylinder...

Maybe because they won't be able to sell it in Europe after 2025? And if that's the case there probably isn't enough of a case to keep producing it for the rest of the markets when production is already rather limited.

I guess if anybody is on the fence, they might want to make the hop.

how does that make sense? they just made an all new motor, all new molds, and a revised chassis. all to sell 20,000 units at $35k?

if you had told me there wasn't going to be a 2nd gen in early 2022, before they made the new molds, before the new motor, i'd believe you.

but now? they're committed to at least a 4-5 years of production, if nothing else, to pay off the molds and design work they committed to the project.

but the fact that it's one of the few manual sports cars left, if that was anywhere near official news, every single autoblog would be talking about it. google shows zero results for it.

Yeah only thing I can imagine is she was confusing what she heard about EU/UK. That’s such a small chunk of the market for this car (not that way more people there wouldn’t have them) that I wouldn’t expect the EU closing the door to it to have any influence on continuing with US/ROW production.

I think she miss-understood that there won't be other GR86, meaning, Toyota does not have plans to come up with another model. Production years already planned should stay the same, there won't be a 3rd gen. Not as GR in that sense.



"Speaking through a translator to Australia's Drive about future GR models, Suezawa said, "There is [sic] none left actually, so this [the GR86] is the last.” It's not clear if he meant the absolute last ever, full stop, or if there are no longer any more in the works at the moment. It's also possible that future sports cars may not fall under the Gazoo Racing brand. It was less than a year ago that Toyota showed what appeared to be a concept for an electric sports car with a mid-"engine" profile.
Suezawa went on to pitch the GR Sport lineup, which dresses up more pedestrian models with sportier wheels, aero bits and sometimes suspension tuning á la BMW's M Sport or Mercedes's AMG-Line. “For the GR [performance brand], basically this [the GR86] is the last," he said. "But we have a GR Sport [brand] that we will be [widening] with models like the Corolla, Yaris Cross and C-HR.”

https://www.autoblog.com/2022/10/06/...-gr-cars-gr86/





Edit. I could also be very wrong because of the restrictions in Europe going into full effect in 2024. So it wouldn't be feasible for either Subaru/Toyota to keep making it. So in fact, 2023 is probably the last year for current gen. Toyota is already planning a Hybrid for 2025.



https://www.carvibz.com/news/next-ge...rid-1-6-turbo/

lol not sure what carvibz is all about, but I'd take that article with a huge grain of salt. A shortened IS platform FR hybrid running the G16 (especially automatic) would be a neat thing, but it wouldn't be a GR86 successor. Certainly not price-wise.

Like I said, I don't expect the end of EU market for ZN8 to affect plans for the rest of the world. I can't see how that would be a smart thing to do when the demand is still solid, and probably will be for at least a few more years. The only other reason I could imagine would be Subaru kicking them out of Gunma to make space for more profitable stuff there.

Subaru isn't going to stop at this point. Parts contracts are usually for 4 years with a minimum of 3. Other than under very special conditions (i.e.COVID shut downs) the assembly plants are obligated to pay for the parts planned whether they use them or not. Car manufacturing is not done on a seat of your pants basis but through long term planning and contracting. If Subaru/Toyota decided to drop out of the plan it would cost them more than it would to build the vehicles and immediately crush them. This is why the Aztec was made for 5 years even though they did not sell worth beans.

We saw "this is the last year for the 86/BRZ" stories and insider scoops every single year from 2016 on so this "news" is really not unexpected. If it was to be believed then the car has already been dropped at least 5 times and any of us driving one post 2016 are delusional since they can't exist.

European sales totaled around 2% of the gen one cars and even less than that for the GR global sales so I doubt they care if they won't be able to sell them there.

I doubt that one, the Yaris GR was sold -almost- exclusively in Europe.

Yeah, not buying it. The typical salesperson doesn't know shit about cars, they are just there to make money. Nor do I believe click bait websites that are known for being click bait websites.

Nor do I believe Toyota/Subaru is going to make a Hybrid twin.

Europeans are willing to pay top dollar for hot hatches, Americans aren't.

Look how long the Focus RS was sold in Europe before they finally brought one to the states.

I was referring to the GR86. They only got a handful of them for 2022. The Yaris is a different story entirely.

Exactly, all news articles unless there is an official statement from whatever drove the article should always be taken with a grain of salt. Until we see an official statement from either Toyota or Subaru announcing the departure of the GR/BRZ, everything else is pure speculation.



Like someone else said, salespersons are not always car enthusiasts or really interested on development news. So saying "Oh, better get this car because is the last one!" is possibly a sales tactic.



I read the first post which I found odd and decided to look into it and those articles quoted came out. I would stand with my initial statement about the salesperson misinterpreting an article with possibly trying to seal a sale.

There were several "reports" that came out about this time last year that stated "The GR 86 is done". They were spurred by the simple misunderstanding that arose when they closed orders for the model year by using the terminology "production has ended for the 22s". What was meant was "orders are closed for the 22 MY production run".

I doubt that the salesman said it to make a sale. More likely just a carry over of that misunderstanding.

Over the years I have had salesmen tell me:
"The BRZ is AWD turbo and the FRS is not" - Subaru
"The BRZ is AWD and much slower than the FRS" - Toyota
"There will be a convertible BRZ out next year (2017) I have seen it in person" - Subaru dealership owner
"This is the last year for these cars" - Several times by both
"The 2017 facelift will be hybrid" - Toyota
"The second gen of both will be hybrid" - Both
"The second gen 86 will have a Toyota engine" - Toyota

And my very favourite:
"Who did you have paint the car green and do the custom interior on your 86? Hakone edition? Never heard of it." - Sales manager and 2 salesmen Toyota.

Salespeople as a whole don't know nor care about the back stories about what they sell. Why should they really? Does everybody really think that they know everything going on in the background of their jobs?

For the last part, I think, personally, that knowing about the moving parts of your job helps to build better relationships with customers and will probably bring in more because of word-of-mouth reviews.



I absolutely sucked at selling the additional insurance at Enterprise. But I sure knew about how to meet the specific needs of a customer that was looking for a vacation rental, or was looking for one to test drive without having to deal with a dealer. It became also helpful when helping those who had their car totaled and were wondering on what car to buy. I always had returning customers or people that came as a referral.


Same thing with my detailing business, some people appreciated my input on how to further keep their car cleaned, DIY, or the why I choose certain products.



I understand that some folks are just trying to make a sale, earn a paycheck, etc. So why would they have to care or even mention about things like, say, reliability issues. As long as it sells and I can deposit my check, hey, all is fair.

But, personally, I would've never in good conscience, no matter how much I needed the money, persuaded a customer to buy something like a Chrysler 200. I would send them to the Toyota dealer across the street and told them about how much better another car could be. Wouldn't had lasted more than a week.

I meant that salespeople do not have the enthusiasts level of background knowledge of what they are selling. Like if there was a rental car insurance enthusiast that could tell you that the reason it costs this much was because of the 1962 Smith vs Hertz case that determined the base amount that rental companies can charge. Telling them what cars you recommended is an enthusiast level thing not a car rental guy one.
Your detailing business is also not a good example. It is a passion for you not just a job. If you hired some random guy off the street to dry the cars they would not have near the knowledge (if any) of the products. You only know because they are part of your passion. Most people do NOT have a passion for things they sell and only know enough to answer some very basic questions.

I couldn't imagine the contract requirements for a car manufacturers vendors :eyebulge:

Even our little small company I have stuff where I am stuck buying up to 4 years of items like custom circuit boards, custom motors, ect.

It is a convoluted and very, very, very, rigidly enforced system. Back before the 2008 recession the car manufacturers had the parts suppliers over a barrel most of the time and could do whatever they wanted. After it was all over most of the smaller suppliers had either closed up or been bought by the larger companies. This gave the parts suppliers a bit more power to enforce contract requirements so the car companies couldn't just do as they please. On the other hand the suppliers had bloody well better supply or they will pay for it!

The tricky part that most don't understand is the whole "just in time" supply system. People picture an Amazon type setup with big warehouses ready to send parts to the assembly plants. That would be a great way for a company to go broke fast. The contract says that they want X number of parts to be delivered to the lines just as they are needed. The parts companies make and ship those parts based upon schedules made months in advance. Any hiccup in the assembly plant will cause a trickle down of issues that goes right back to the mining of the raw materials. We see on this (and any car forum) people that think that the cars are somehow made on the fly with the companies having the ability to increase or decrease volume at a whim. This is a very wrong picture of how it works. There are literally thousands of companies involved in making the parts that go into a car and they can not all be turned on and off like a switch.

This rumor is so stupid it's not even worth wasting effort with a Google search. The twins aren't going anywhere.

That whole "just in time" supply and production is crazy.

I'd trust a facebook group to have more accurate information about the future of a product than the fucking dealer.

I see what you're saying. I was just trying to make a more personal preference on how I do things. For example, if I was a salesperson, I would like to know as much as I can about the product so that I can provide the best possible solution to the customer. Which, as I inferred, I would've been horrible at because I would tell them not to a buy a certain car, if I was to work at a certain dealership. But I completely agree that it not necessary to know, nor it is realistic to expect it.

Our Windsor subassembly plant has just 40 minutes for providing the suspension modules for the minivans. When a minivan hits the assembly line they broadcast the VIN to our plant. The whole suspension assembly is made to that VIN, placed on a rack in sequence with 5 others, put on a truck and delivered to the assembly plant line just as that vehicle hits the point where it is bolted on. There is no way to build ahead or have any ready as they are actually stamped with the VIN as they are made.
The rotors we make in the other plant will come in as raw castings, be machined, coated, delivered and on a vehicle within 36 hours. The only ones that sit for more than a few hours are service parts and even then we get screamed at for having to much money tied up in "inventory". Nothing is sitting around in a warehouse ever.

You are still thinking like a car guy though. How about if you sold vacuum cleaners? Do you really think you would be well versed on the up and coming sucking tech? Would you get all excited about telling customers about the benefits and drawback of hepa filters? No, you would sell them what they asked for or even try to get them to spend more. Most car salesmen are not car guys so that is what they do. They are selling appliances.
Personally I would hate trying to sell cars to "enthusiasts" as they may be dumb as a stump but think they know all because they read it on Facebook or Instagram. We see it here every day!

Well… yeah haha. Im just weird like that. No matter what I pick up I must know as much as I can. I even did it with retail selling clothes, didn’t really go about the specifics of how they select their fabrics but I would recommend certain shirts over other ones because of the type of material, durability, and I would go into the different scents used for perfumes/colognes.

Is there something wrong with me, am I another reason for a ban? :lol::lol:

No, you're just one of the few that are personally invested in their work. I bet that you would end up setting the bar no matter what the endeavor. I know for a fact that Tcoat and NoHaveMSG are both in that club. I have a strong feeling that soundman is there too.


The 80/20 rule is real.

iirc, didn't that also have to do with the engine displacement/tax rate?

same reason v8 muscle cars never sold much over there.
i think it more comes down to how much vehicles cost and are taxed. car enthusiasts are everywhere, but external forces like tax rates tend to determine which vehicles are ultimately most popular.

definitely something wrong with you!

ok, maybe not so much

I can second that. Best car salesman I ever knew was my Father-in-Law. He sold cars for 30 years in 3 different states (MD, FL, GA) under Buick, Chevrolet and Honda. He was always the highest production salesman at his dealership and at one point was in the top 10 of Corvette salesman in the US.

He knew enough about the specific cars he sold to have a conversation, but mostly he just nodded, listened and reinforced what the buyer was saying. If he didn't know an answer, he would get a mechanic to come explain. He always answered his phone, and always followed up. The last year he worked he was still sending holiday cards (the appropriate one based on the Religion of the buyer, or at least his guess).

He had customers follow him from state-to-state to buy cars. In fact, the last month he sold cars before retiring he sold a car to the daughter of the first person he ever sold a car to on his first day as a salesman. She called him from Maryland and drove her trade-in to Atlanta to pick up the Odyssey she bought over the phone.

He knew buckus about cars but he knew how to sell.

some days are better than others?

This is the dumbest thing I’ve read today, and I saw tweets about gas stoves.

Never ever trust a salesman. I’m impressed when they know how to open the trunk, they don’t get told shit.

Talking about this?

The young 'uns probably don't even know what movie this is.

Fargo, just to help them out.

The best car sales move was this one, IMO.

https://youtu.be/0WbxHXf9oqc

ha! trick question. the trunk monkey opens the trunk!