Winter Setup
 

I just moved out to Denver from Florida and have been doing a lot of research into how the car performs in the snow. From what I gathered, as long as you have very good AS or nice winter tires, you should be fine driving carefully. I only need my car for quick trips (work from home).
Previously I had 18” summer tires on it. I also have tein flex x installed, but at its highest ride height. When I moved here I bought some stock wheels wrapped in continental control contact all season sport tires. I also have 140lbs of sand in the trunk. I hoped this would be sufficient, and seemed to perform fine in light snow and in the cold. But we just had a few inches of snow and I’m unable to pull it off the side of the street, I just slide back into the curb.

My question is, will winter tires make the difference here? I know there’s a huge difference between AS and winter tires, but I’m just reluctant to drop $800 on them if the car will still be questionably safe, while the AS will do fine without snow.

Side note, if anyone has any general winter suggestions I’d appreciate it. Going through as many threads as I can to get up to speed.

Winter tires will help significantly with your traction. If you're having a hard time getting moving, apply a little handbrake pressure- it'll force the LSD to engage ( it can't on snow/ice, as it requires friction to transfer torque)
The sand in the trunk may cause more harm than good at times, I prefer the car without weight on the back in snow/ice- try it both ways and see what you like more.


If you have an upgraded rear swaybar, disconnect it- you'll want pliability in your suspension for traction

Winter tires are absolutely worth it if you need the car to work in any condition.

There are different tier of winters depending on what you need locally. Nordic being most geared to heavy snow storm conditions.

I've got some vikkingcontact 7s on 16" wheels which is setup for our crap Canadian winters. Pirelli sottozero 3 are a nice middle ground tire that isn't near as mushy on dry pavement.

Get snow tires.

Which is cheaper winter tires or your Collision deductible?

I'm running 16" steelies with studded snow tires and she gets around just fine...

Thanks for the tip, I’ll give it a try! Had no idea it could be more harm than good.

Do you have an input on Blizzak ws90s? From my previous research they seemed to be overall a good winter tire that I couldn’t find much negative on. I definitely wouldn’t be driving in heavy snow conditions. And generally the only snow I’d be on would be my street as everything else would be plowed by the time I hit the road, with the exception of the occasional spots.

I definitely won’t be driving with the current setup. And without the need to commute to work, I’m fortunate enough to be able to stay home in bad conditions. I’d just like the option to go out despite the weather, but I was unsure if winter tires would be substantial enough for it to be safe.

Get winter tires. Obviously some winters will be better than others but basically any winter will be better than an all-season. Depending on the weather conditions in your area and if it's suitable, a "performance winter" or "euro winter" tire will be geared towards more dry performance. However, based on my understanding of the winters in Denver, you'll probably want to get a "nordic winter" tire which will typically have a softer compound and more chunky tread blocks.

Most people recommend down sizing your tires to get more grip. I personally run 195/65R15 to try and cut through the snow/slush more easily.


Edit: Don't forget to check your tire pressures if there are sudden temperature drops.

SW90 are in the same Nordic category as the vikkingcontacts and are comparable top of their class.

Might be overkill if you don't need to deal with heavy snow, and they feel mushy on dry pavement.

just be sure to check local laws. not all areas allow studded snow tires.

Denver is tricky. It could be 70 in January. It could snow five feet in April. The bottom line is this: rarely will you have the optimal tire for any given day in the winter. You will be driving on tires that aren't always the best for the conditions.
These cars suck so bad in the snow you'll want to lean towards the serious snow tire models, not performance-oriented winter tires. Just realize you're choosing to sacrifice performance so you can get where you want, when you want.

My recommendation would be Michelin Pilot Alpin pa4. It will be good in the dry and cold as well on snow.

I agree these cars are bad in the snow and recommend "nordic winters" for anywhere that gets more than a light sprinkle (0.25" or more). Even with nordic winters, it can be challenging when there's more than 1" of snowfall and you'll still be praying traffic doesn't slow down on hills as you'll need to maintain momentum to get up.

For starters I am in Denver as well and as so many have said, get snow tires. But you do not have to break the bank. The least expensive winter tire is going to handle the snow and ice much better than the best all-season tire.

Personally, other than the up front cost, I consider winter tires to be free. As every mile you put on them is a mile that doesn't go on your summer tires, making them last that much longer.

I appreciate it! With how little I’ll be taking it out in the snow, I just genuinely wondered the safety would merit the money over just staying in/catching rides.

But from everyone’s input it definitely seems like the right move to make and I won’t regret it.

I've had my 86 since the end of March 2021, have worked remotely 100% of the time since buying it and still have less than 3.5K miles on it. Yet I run winter tires. So my opinion should be quite clear :thumbsup:

If you can swing it, I would suggest putting them on their own set of wheels. You will save money in the long run versus paying twice a year to have the tires swapped over on the same wheels.

If one gets another set of wheels, advise to get smaller size for winter. Tires will cost less and extra sidewall size will help with bad roads. Used subbie 16" should be reasonably cheap & common.

As everyone else here has said, get some winter tires!

On my Sport Tech RS (AKA "Performance Pack" in the US) with the factory Brembo brakes, the smallest size wheel I can run are 17's, so I have my snows on the OEM Performance Pack 17x7.5" ET48 wheels and some lighter weight 17x8" ET35 wheels for the UHP all-seasons I run the rest of the year.

With my lowered ride height (about 30mm / 1.25" drop all around), I don't venture out when the snow is more than a couple of inches deep, so I don't really need the "pizza cutters" to get through the deep stuff. That made me settle on the same 225/45R17 size I run for my all seasons instead of the other option of 205/50R17's I was considering.

I ended up getting Michelin X-Ice Snow 225/45R17's, and have previously run Blizzak WS90's in the same size on my last car. Both were MILES better for starting / stopping traction than any all-season with snow or ice on the ground, and both feel pretty squishy (both tread and sidewalls) on bare pavement (wet or dry). The Blizzaks' sidewalls actually felt a *little* better than the Michelins in that regard, if I remember correctly, but again - it was on a different vehicle.

Between the winter tire traction, the overall balance of the car, and the traction / stability control systems helping keep things pointing the right direction, the car has been surprisingly capable in the snow / icy conditions as long as I drive with a little restraint. ;)

I run Pirelli Sottozero III 225/45-17 on factory 17x7.5s. Maybe remove rear sway bar...

I have WS90s.

If it's real cold (under 30 degrees F) and or there's snow/ice on the ground, they're very good and you'll be glad you have them.

Any other scenario or conditions - they're not good.

Except in other conditions grip is plentiful and i'm willing to sacrifice some for sake every little extra i can net when it's scarce. Driving without hooning on well maintained clean tarmac roads still way within grip limits of real winter tires, but lacking grip on snow/ice is what may leave one stuck with need for assistance or not avoid accident in those "worst case scenarios".
.. Unless where one lives/drives winter has too little actual "winter in it".

I know the pros and cons and I purchased them with those in mind.

I live outside Chicago which does get real winter. It was just -10 degrees last week. Today it was 60.

It cannot be overstated just how bad the braking is whenever it's not freezing cold outside. Not even panic braking- just driving in standard suburban traffic, it's noticeable just how much further you have to get into the brake pedal to make the car stop.

I'm considering taking a loss and going to 'performance winters' next season.

Sounds weird. Never had any problems with braking/cornering/accelerating on clean public tarmac roads on nordic winter tires (even studded at that) with driving normally, within legal limits. Worse then on all season? Probably. But good enough with some safety margin left. But i had been stuck in deep snow in unplowed yard, i had my share of scare moments of 'almost' crashing or not stopping in time on ice when in past drove on crappy winter tires in my very first winter in twin (probably made more grave then in "normal cars" due it's RWD layout & light weight & maybe reliance of high grip in summer), so now choosing to maximize what i can for "worst case scenarios". But not suggesting this as right choice for everybody, especially for ones living in warmer climate places.

I felt the same way about my Bridgestone WS80s. Very good in the snow. Very bad the rest of the time.

I like my General Altimax Arctics a lot more in non-snowy less-cold conditions. They still suck but it's not "holy crap this is bad" levels of suck. They are still good in the snow...though hard to compare directly since I haven't seen the same conditions I put the Blizzaks through.

- Andrew

Chicagoan here who has daily driven his car through 8 Chicago winters (including going out in pretty much every storm) and even goes ice racing up in Wisconsin.

You aren't wrong, BUT I look at it slightly differently. Yes, true studless winter tires suck when it's warm, and aren't THAT great on dry pavement... but they are so much better than anything else in snow and ice that I still think they're worthwhile. THOSE are the times when you want maximum traction, not only for yourself, but to avoid all the other idiots on the road. It's easier enough to adapt on the random warm days an increase following distance (because as you said, panic braking on studless winters on a 60 degree day is an exercise in futility), but what I refuse to sacrifice is the added traction when I hit a patch of ice on the road, or when I need to swerve around some idiot sliding into my lane in the snow.

I used General Altimax Arctics for basically 7 of those 8 winters, but last winter I decided to try something a bit higher-tier (also because the Generals aren't that much less than the class-leading tires anymore) so I went with the Continental VikingContact7, which was trading blows with the Blizzaks and the Hakkepeliittas.

This is my 3rd season on the Michelin X-ICE 245/45/17. They've been great under Chicago and South Bend snowy conditions.

Only time that I lost traction was a few weeks ago, we had a freezing rain/sleet condition followed by a snow storm. I didn't pay attention and thought it was fresh snow. Then my rear lost traction a bit after moderately accelerating from a stop sign, and the car's rear end kicked out to the opposite lane. Luckily my front tires still had grip and the speed was low. The tires saved me from spinning or going into the woods.

Remember, putting winter tires on doesn't mean you can drive the car like you can during summer. Slow acceleration and paying attention to the road conditions are important as well :cheers:.