2013 FRS timing issue
 

So I had an engine rebuilt for the 2013 FRS and at the same time I ordered new cam gears and timing chain. The issue I am having is now both sets of gears they have sent look wrong. My ones I had used a tab on the timing plate and the ones the have sent both times use a notch on the timing plate. With the new ones car does not start. I have included a picture the top one is original bottom is new. I am guessing with the new maybe I need new sensors or ECU flash?

13'-16' Same
17'+ Different.

Looks like you got a 17'+. Cam position sensor can't read it. I dunno if the pre facelift ECU can read the 17'+ cam position sensors. I know for a fact it can't read the 17'+ crank position sensor. Same issue, in'y vs out'y.

Whats odd is the car ran fine before it had a ring land failure. So if it has a 17+ gear and 17+ sensor would that really work? Also I think it show same part for 13+ on cam sensor with subaru

I don't believe it will, but I can't say for sure 100% since I haven't tried it/seen it attempted. It's weird, but it does show the cam position sensor the same up to 17' even though it shows the cam gears are not. The waveform of the signal is going to be different so I am assuming it isn't going to work.

Thoughts @Ultramaroon

Cam sensor
https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_20...2056AA270.html

Cam Sproket
https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_20...3320AA021.html

I should also add we have tried ROM B01C it originally had A01C.

also found another cam sensor that says it fits. I wonder if one matches each type of gear.

https://parts.subaru.com/p/subaru_20...2056AA210.html

It will not work. It is not the sensors it is the ECU programming that is different.

ok so how do I order the one with tabs just order 17+ gears? Why would my 13 have 17+ and 17+ programming? Since owning the car have added a turbo and the tuner used ecutek and didnt say the ECU looked different than any other 13.

Did you buy it used? Signs point to updated engine+ECU. Have you checked the serial numbers?

Pre-facelift triggered on the negative-going edge of the waveforms. They changed the polarity because the sensors are less finicky about detecting tabs than the notches. Scroll down to about the middle of these pages.

Pre-facelift
Post-facelift

It wouldn't just be 17+ programming though, it would have to be the 17+ ECU as well as the tunes are not compatible and the pre facelift ECU can't read some of the newer sensors. Weird, I didn't think you could do the facelift ECU in a pre facelift car without creating all kinds of issues with the immobilizer.

Yes bought it used. What I struggle with is that when my tuner tuned it ECU Version is ZA1JA01C and it ran fine no issues. We do a rebuild order the gears and they are the notched ones get no start. We tried to flash with ZA1JB01C no change. If it had updated engine ecu would it not show a 2017 ECU version? can you change the trigger without changing the whole ECU version?

No, that is what is so confusing here. 13-16' ECU shouldn't be able to read 17+ cam sensor or crank position sensor. But ZA1JA01C is original FRS rom calid.

Some of the other guys that know more may chime in later. I am lost on this one.

yeah we are all lost on this one. I would get if it had some custom flash but the tuner starts with a fresh flash.

Is there a way to find out who did the engine swap?
What is the Part number on your current ECU?
What is the serial number on the engine?

At this point best thing to do is to try to determine what all components are original and what ones are changed.

ok so put new 2017 cam gears in and car fires right up. I now have 15-20 degrees advance on intake and codes p0011 p0021 p0019 and p0017.

See my previous post.

the block is stamped with the VIN from the car. I will try and get SN from ECU. I called the 2 dealers that showed on the carfax one had done an actuator repair other did a floor mat recall I have no other history.

It would be nice to see what the cam position values are in techstream.

ECU shows 22765AC813
So looks to me like its factory block and factory ECU no swapping. Did they ever do tabbed gears on early production ones?

Not that I am aware of. Like I said earlier, I have been under the impression the 13-16' ECU can't read the signal.

Intake left and right both show 18* Exhaust left and right both show 0* in techstream

Looks like it is time to go back to the pre 17 cam gears and programming.

so its now on the cam gears and ecu flash it was on prior to rebuild that had no timing issues and its still the 18* both intake and 0* exhaust. This is how car was when I purchased it. The Rom still is and always has been ZA1JA01C which wont start with notched cam gears but will with tabbed

I'll come back to this after I revive my dead washing machine.


https://i.imgur.com/1RFhVTi.png

I think I hate fixing appliances worse than cars haha!! So I saw this difference in the link you sent. But if its using a stock ECU file how could it work? Did someone change the wiring because it looks to be as its just the opposite on triggering high to low

those are views of first-gen and second-gen sensor outputs. The polarity reversal is solely a function of switching from valleys to hills. I wonder if the ecu can learn to compensate for the change in one direction. ...one way trip for the initial position values. I think that's what they're called.

so I believe the dealer would replace an ECU if they redid timing stuff because it was slow to relearn I thought I read that somewhere

edit: ^^^yeah. Not slow, can't.





even if I'm FOS, I still think the secret is buried in those charts.

so a new ECU could learn if it was a notched cam gear or tabbed is what you are thinking. So this ECU had learned with tabbed and with tabbed style in it now starts but its showing 18 degrees advanced on both intake cams. So could it be that with all new timing stuff its not exactly the same as it was before and it wont relearn?

I don't know! I can't study those charts now! Mrs. Ultra needs her washing machine. haha :bonk:

Good luck!

Not sure a 0* value means it is actually reading the position or not though.

Sucks you are having this issue, but this sure is an interesting one.

@tomm.brz thoughts?

:popcorn:

I don't know if this makes sense but it's how the old ECU would interpret the signal from the new reluctor wheel with the tabs. I've wondered about this exact scenario all these years. They definitely aren't compatible but would it run? It must. Yours did, right? I think I'd replace ECU and mount the old-style, notched wheels for the sensors.

https://i.imgur.com/Sq2HxgG.jpg

yes it did run and it ran well until had a ringland failure. I still have notched gears. Do you think I need a new ECU or maybe one from a wrecked car? I see 3 by me on car-part for under 60$ in wrecked cars.

Buy 'em all and hope that at least one isn't locked with an ecutek flash. :bonk:

ok put a junk yard ECU in and no start at all with tabbed gears. So my morning project is to replace with notched gears and test. I will keep you pasted as to if that works. What is the best way to update VIN in ECU they link in this thread for techstream is dead https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102810

Oh noooooo!

That is always the thread I sent other people. I'm not sure without digging around for more info.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...09#post3560409


can't yet vouch for it. *shrug*


wait.... don't you already have techstream? That link was just for the media.

so new notched gears and junk yard ECU made it run normal Cams all look good and everything! I have a friend with techstream but he says he cant write a VIN is there different levels of license for it?