Motor Trend, August issue.
 

Motor Trend, August issue has an article, "Toyota: the Performance Scion."
I tried to get the article online, but it's not online.:iono: It states most of what we know, but no release date.

"The naturally aspirated boxer is also fitted with Toyota's D4-S fuel injection system, which combines port and direct injection to optimize fuel burn."

"U.S. and Canada will get a less radical version of this tuned Scion FR-S, which debuted at 2011 New York Auto Show.":(

There is also mention of Subaru's new rear drive coupe in another article.

Basically... nothing new or interesting for anyone following this car. Same goes for the new WRX/STI article that makes mention of the Scion.

I am most curious what MT meant by:

"U.S. and Canada will get a less radical version of this tuned Scion FR-S, which debuted at 2011 New York Auto Show."

What does that mean?

I took it as reference that the FR-S at NYAS is not the production version, without getting into it being a 5Axis concept. I don't think we'll get anything detuned... it wont survive that way.

^ Yeah I agree that is probably the most probable meaning. But the way it was worded, I guess you could read it one of two ways:

1) The FR-S concept by 5Axis was just that, a concept of what is possible. The production version will not be as "radical" as the FR-S and will be more toned down.

2) The US/Canada Scion version will be neutered compared to the rest of the world since we get screwed over on most import cars that come our way.


Most likely it is #1 since #2 would be suicide.

If it is number 2, then that would really kill the excitement and the purpose of branding the car as a scion in the first place.

I guess it depends how Scion wants to price it. Could anyone see Scion trying to price this lower and as result not be as well equipped as a Toyota version or Subaru? Say be $3-4k cheaper but maybe have smaller brakes, wheels, not as great stock tires, not as great front seats, maybe not tuned as aggressively? With Scion's emphasis on low priced cars without different vehicle trims, I am confused how this partnership will work with Subaru also selling the same car.

^Actually I think that's a perfectly reasonable presumption. It goes back to seriously doubting that both models will be priced the same. Subie will likely be the more expensive of the two and if that's the case it had better be for more than just the badge. One clarification though, I'm not so certain the base engine stats will be all that different... but the other components are very likely to be different.

I hope it doesn't come with two 2.0 liter engines like my RSX did where the base engine is 160hp and the high revving variant adds 40hp with a base price of 22k-26k. This would be suicide!!!

Third option: high gas mileage economy coupe.:(:cry:

Yeah I agree that the base engine would be the same across the lines (the 2.0L boxer). However, I could possibly see the suspension for the Scion not being as aggressive compared to the Subaru version. Also if they come out with a TRD or STI with a different engine, I'm not sure Scion would get that unless Toyota changes Scion's business model.

I was reading this on the john moments ago. With the Impreza pick I didn't even bother looking at FT86 bit. I love the look of the Impreza STI, even if it's photochopped.

I guess theoretically they could. Scion never mentioned any HP figure at NYIAS so they could theoretically do a base engine in the 160hp range. But I don't see Scion offering the FRS with two different engine options; lower model with 160hp and the upper model with 200hp.

If Scion priced the base engine model at $20-21k, the question is if Scion buyers would pay that extra $4-5k to get a better suspension setup and better engine? But I just don't see Scion selling a base and a "plus" model. But they could surprise us I guess.



Edit:
When someone has the time, would someone mind scanning that image and putting it in here or post it in the general automotive section?

Scion has been offering different models for years, they are called Version # or Release Series(RS). Speaking of which are bullshit, imho.

No I know they have done that. But those Release Series are basically just an appearance package with a different paint color, body kit, maybe a push start ignition or a different fabric on the seats. I'm not talking about bullshit releases that have nothing substantial to them and that are not released from the beginning (not something that happens every few years). I was talking more about what Subaru does with the WRX; base, premium, limited (although the engine is the same in all of those). Or the Subaru Legacy with the base 2.5i, 2.5i premium, and 2.5i limited all getting the 170hp engine and the 2.5GT getting the 265 turbo boxer engine. That is what I am getting at. Not shitty appearance packages to put on my car or a new paint scheme. The Scion fanboys can keep that.

:respekt:

I knew what you meant.

Thanks bofa for the STI pic!!

:w00t:


That whole release series rubbish by Scion is one of the things that I hate about the company.

Shhh... wasn't me :scared0016:

What are you talking about? ;) :thumbsup:

Yeah, the "less radical" comment was aimed at the Concept car, not how the vehicle will be in other markets. We'll get the same car here as Japan gets, just with a different badge.

I suppose it's possible that the US/Canadian model may have a slightly softer suspension to cope with the state of the roads on this continent, but I doubt it, and I HIGHLY doubt anything else on the car will be changed, apart from which side the steering wheel is on.

US and Canada's "less radical version" means we're getting a Scion. :bs:

The rest of the world is getting a Toyota! ;)

That sure sounds cocky. Many of us hope that is the case however in many past and current examples Japanese and European cars imported here are different than the version they sell elsewhere in the world. The US has different safety standards than the rest of the world. Our $$$ is worth crap right now as well. Many factors go into what features are included in the car. If Scion is really aiming at a specific price point above all else (i.e. features/equipment) they might have to "delete" certain items/features to hit their price point. It ain't rocket science. Hell isn't it the WRX/STI that you still can't get Recaro seats as an option from Subaru even though the rest of the world does?

http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/2...10713at424.png


This is just a little graph to show you how crappy the USD has been doing. In the last 4 years the USD has dropped 30% compared to the JPY. In the past 12 months you are looking at the USD dropping 10% compared to the JPY. Our USD doesn't buy as much as it use to, so Scion could really specs this differently than the Toyota version the rest of the world sees due to costs.

No one is really buying anything from the U.S. Think of a couple/few things that other countries REALLY want from the U.S. I certainly can't think of much. :< "Country of opportunities" that is slowly diminishing. lol

Movies, TV shows, books, video games, software, pharmaceuticals, design, financial services, guns.

aircrafts, cars, machinery, semiconductors, food stuffs

Corn, wood, rice, scrap metal, copper, blue fin tuna, yellow fin tuna, mackerel, salmon, salmon roe, king crab, gold, silver, aluminum.

Ok I overlooked the Movies and T.V shows. Video games yes but Chinese "farmers" are ruining everything. Guns.. nice. Slipped my mind about that one. :P

Hmm good one! Cars... I'm not so sure about. :x Although I have seen an increase of american muscle cars around.

^ Haha. Crab I can definitely understand.. BUT TUNA!?


Its awesome you guys thought of a bunch of different things... but a lot of the other things you guys mentioned people get cheaper from other countries.

Who ever did that photochop need to get fired and hire WoW. Seriously, Wow can do 100x better that chop!

:sigh:

You realize that as the Value of the Yen goes up against the dollar that makes our exports cheaper to buy. Which means our exports go up, imports go down, economy does good. It makes building Cars here cheaper than in Japan.

That's why Global companies love it when the Euro goes up against the dollar. Makes it easier to sell our products.

The USD is still the standard world currency, it still is the prefered currency for transactions, it's also the worlds reserve. Meaning if the USD truly tanks as a whole, the whole world goes with it.

As for Scion, and the release series. How are they bullshit exactly? It's just limited edition stuff that comes with some one off extras for more money. They sell the regular versions right along side them. If you were forced into buying one, that would be bullshit. But more options is usually a good thing.

Finally, less radical refers to the body and the wheels. There won't be LED lights everywhere and the styling will be less radical for the production version. Just like it is with all Concept vs. Production cars.

Everyone is going to get the same underpinnings, and more than likely the Subaru and Toyota/Scion versions will be within a few K of each other. This is an entry sports car. Subaru isn't going to be selling many if the make it too expensive. Especially when there really isn't anything extra to be had for that higher price except perhaps a more luxurious interior.

Carry on the Scion bashing. :happy0180:

awwww your soo sweet,

but ya thats a pretty bad image to be placed in a popular magazine. There are far better artists, and artists im personally friends with that could do a much better job and take less pay too.

I wish someone would give me a job. :(

Boeing. They are hiring like crazy right now. If you're lucky you could get stuck with me.

http://www.pic.or.jp/en/market/tuna.htm

http://factsanddetails.com/japan.php...4&subcatid=159

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=TUNAIQTL:IND

Japan has very little natural resources. They have to rely on their people and technology in manufacturing. I believe the Tokyo fish market is the largest in the world.

I wasn't talking about Japan prior to that post. Lol I was asking..


"What do people want from the U.S" not Japan. ;p

I feel ya. I'm working freelance right now, and it blows. I just want something stable.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gWQaU40PH2...255B1%255D.jpg



Yes as the JYP goes up our exports become cheaper but you need something to sell for that to work. What do we export that Japan in particular wants from us? It was mentioned a few posts back what some of our exports were. Most of that is natural resources; i.e. corn, wheat, grains, wood, minerals...etc. Our manufacturing sector is shit now that we have sent most of that work to China. Some companies are starting to come back to the USA to manufacture, however it is still heavily skewed to the other side.

Just face it, our economy sucks now. We don't really produce anything that other countries want. Well maybe our fighter planes, aerial drones, tanks, attack helicopters and other military weapons. Right now we are a service economy. We don't produce things like we did back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. We are also a "consumption" economy. Other countries are dependent on us to buy their goods rather than them buying our goods.

In reference to your point above, Subaru/Toyota are going to build the FT86 at a Subaru plant in Japan. So your point about it being built in the US being cheaper is a mute point since that is not taking place in this example. This isn't like the Camry, Solara, Avalon and Venza that are built here.

Just to reference this point with actual data here are our 2011 import/export numbers for Japan and China:

Japan

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7...10714at908.png


China

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7...10714at908.png

As you can see we import 2x more from Japan and 3.5x more from China than we export to them. The USD has lost 20% against the CNY over the last 4 years. Doesn't look like they are taking advantage of the higher JYP and CNY as you hypothesized does it? I can go back and give you data from 2010, 2009, 2008...etc. showing the same stuff; we don't export much to China and Japan but we sure do buy a lot from them.

Want to see something truly depressing? Here is a list of our top 10 countries we have a trade deficit with and trade surplus. Just ignore China and Japan being in our top 10 trade deficit partners and look at the absolute USD $ amount in the column. That should speak for itself.

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/...t/deficit.html

http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/...t/surplus.html




What exactly are we selling again and to whom?



Sure the USD might be the current reserve currency but you would have to live under a rock to know that IMF and world bankers are wondering if that needs to be changed. You probably won't read any of these articles but I figured for the record I should put up recent articles that prove my point


1) Central Banks Dump Treasuries As Dollar's Reserve Currency Status Fades


2) The World Needs a Second Reserve Currency by Moorad Choudhry


3) Economists foretell of U.S. decline, China's ascension

4) Enhancing International Monetary Stability—A Role for the SDR?: It is a long read but it is the IMF report basically saying the USD needs to be replaced as the world reserve currency and they think SDRs are a good solution.



ToyotaObsession, if you have any articles that say the opposite, please share them.


Do we really have to get into that? Hmm lets see, how about the fact that they are geared towards the "ricer" crowd. Every RS that I have followed is basically a new loud color that looks ridiculous. Secondly they have an added body kit/side moldings and maybe a few interior features are changed. That is basically it. Besides the few years Scion offered the TRD supercharger show me an RS that offers a better engine in it? RS is just a bunch of rubbish geared towards the visual appearance with nothing of substance behind it. You can dress up a turd as much as you want, but in the end it is still a turd. It doesn't bother me any since I would never buy a tC or xB, but it is disappointing to me when you consider the legacy of Toyota and TRD. Just feels like they don't care any about performance and want to make the little kiddies happy with these "dope new colors."



Besides interior you could have better/lighter: wheels, tires, suspension parts, brakes...etc. for a higher price. Obviously you can't do all of those things if the difference is just a few thousand bucks, but you could have a few parts be better in the more expensive car (or not as good in the cheaper car).

http://www.motortrend.com/future/fut...way/index.html

Hmmmmmmm. (Thinks deeply)