last gen STI vs. new WRX vs. Corolla GR vs. Evo??
 

Hey guys i'm getting married next year and planning to try for kids shortly after so its coming time for a 4 door car. Car will be a daily that gets also used for canyon runs, autox, and possibly some track days down the road. I don't drive tons lately since i work from home most days, but i do some back and forth driving between San Diego and Los Angeles every month or so and also like having something I can drive to the mountains for weekend trips, etc.

I have a first gen BRZ that is pretty dialed in at this point (kw coils, stage 2 uel/tune, good wheels/tires, project mu pads). Its been my daily for 5+ years and very reliable. Love the driving experience even though its not exactly "fast." I would love to have a comfy daily and keep the brz as a weekend car and throw on a supercharger but doesn't really work for me financially.

I have always wanted a WRX or STI since i was a kid. Unfortunately the STI is gone from the world now and the WRX looks ugly until you mod the fenders lol. I do like that the new WRX is getting the FA24 with a little more torque and a less laggy turbo, hate the tradeoff through that its twin-scroll and not ideal with a UEL so the sound will never be the same as old ones. The limited trim looks like it runs around $32k and you don't get the recaros/ultrasuede because you can't get it with the stick. Also probably going to spend the money right away to get paint matched fenders because its the only thing that saves the styling of the car. i would give the new seats a chance, but i always wanted the recaros. the seats in the new WRX don't look as good as the seats i have now in my BRZ limited (which i really like)

a lightly used low mile STI (if there is such a thing) is around the same price, though you lose the warranty of a new WRX. You get the trick differential, the brembos, the good seats, better tuned suspension/steering, and the EJ25 which is a blessing and a curse as we all know. it makes a little bit more power than the fa24, the UEL sound, and of course the documented possible reliability issues, but a very robust aftermarket. From what i understand the 2019+ STIs have the type RA mods with some forged internals that are hopefully a bit more reliable. Buying a 2020 or something will probably still have some warranty left if i were to buy one. finding a decent used STI is always a challenge. The plus side is the resale/depreciation stays pretty good, especially if this is the last gas-powered STI ever. having the older infotainment system and slightly worse gas mileage is something that matters but not a dealbreaker.

Corolla GR checks a lot of the boxes... its more "hardcore" than a base WRX and more like the STI in terms of how its set up for handling, AWD with the vectoring differential, good seats, etc. the hatch is also a big plus. love the toyota reliability. obviously nobody has driven one yet but they look really promising from a performance standpoint. i like the looks but i don't love them. Also im undecided whether or not i like the 3-cylinder.


what are you guys' thoughts? anyone else test driven new WRX vs old STI? I want something daily-able, but don't want to be missing having a sportscar every time i drive. will modding a newer WRX get an STI-like feel without voiding the warranty or do you just gotta do the work and get an older one?

(btw, not considering Type R, GTI, Veloster N, etc. because i don't like FWD when driving hard personally)

Keep in mind that in today's car market you might not be able to get the car you want, especially not for MSRP. This is particularly true for the GR Corolla with potential zero availability in the coming years.

This might have a bigger impact on your decision than the actual car preference, especially with a hard deadline of getting married and having kids. If you can only get the Corolla in 3 years or pay an extra $10,000 for it to get it in a year, would it still be on your radar? Same applies for most other cars (new and used).

Finally, as a parent I can say that giving away the fun car is not always necessary. Yes, newborns take a lot of passenger and cargo space, but the car situation greatly depends on how many cars you have, where and when you drive the child(ren) and how much are you willing to sacrifice to keep a car you like. Also, it's often cheaper to buy a compact car seat or stroller (even if it adds up to $1,000 or more) than buying a different car.

I would say, to make as simple as possible, is to chose whatever vehicle is more appealing to you. Is the new WRX a car you'll stare back as you walk away, or one that you'll look for the most isolated parking spot and make sure no one is looking so you can get out of it. If the latter is the case, get the latest year on which the STi was released.



Either Subaru is bound to give you some sort of problems, is what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.



Golf R is around the same price and you get a practical vehicle. Can't speak for reliability but should be comparable in terms of fun.



The cheaper option, is to keep your twin, and get a random Sedan for the kid hauling, trips, errands. Mazdas are relatively cheap, safe, reliable, and family friendly.



GR Corolla is all the hype, so availability will be scarce.

Yeah the GR corolla is definitely the best on paper (especially if it ends up in the same price range) but if i'm remembering right theres only going to be like 5,000 built in the first year so it really might not be realistic. I'm on Toyota's mailing list for it and i could probably put a deposit down if they ask for one but its not going to be that simple probably.

i also really like the mazda 3, just wish the turbo option came with stick. golf R is a cool car to me but a little bit too buttoned down. if ford was still doing the Focus RS i would definitely cross shop it.

believe me definitely thought about it, but i just don't want to deal with reaching back into my smaller 86 with a baby every single day. one car seat can work in a brz for a while, but if you ever have a second kid (and they gotta stay in car seats/boosters until age 8 in my state) its just going to blow it up. we also have two dogs.... two dogs is perfect for a BRZ, just as long as you don't have any humans back there lol.

I was aiming more at the common scenario where there is a family car in addition to the fun car, and you rarely take the baby in the fun car (and if you do it's only a driver plus baby so you can sacrifice the front passenger seat, for example). It does depend on your car situation and particular needs, but if you're working from home and can use the family car for kid duties keeping the BRZ might work.

I have 3 kids and take them in my BRZ to school and activities. I find that the Goldilocks zone for kids in a Twin is 3-12 - old enough to be front facing and easy to manage (and the older siblings buckle themselves with the seat belt in a booster seat) but not too big yet to be a tight squeeze. It does depend on the size of the driver and the size of the kids, though.

For me, the Corolla GR would be the ideal car. It's AWD, manual, turbo 3, and a hatchback. But I'm 100% certain it will be a unicorn till it's eventual discontinuation. Add insane inflation into the mix and you got a recipe for a near impossible car to obtain. However, I feel the demand for the Corolla will cause people to flock from the new WRX. And while it's basically fuck ugly compared to the previous generation, it does have a charm to it. And I would use those factors to get a better deal. So for me I'd probably go for the WRX solely because it will be more obtainable. But then again, I won't be in the market till Dec. 2023.

Honestly if you put a deposit now you'd probably have to wait at least a year and a half to get one (once its actually on sale).

I notice that almost all of your choices are AWD, yet you live in southern CA, to which I ask "why do you want AWD?" If the reason is just because you're considering hatchbacks (which are otherwise only FWD) I understand. But have you considered a RWD sedan? Perhaps an Chevy SS or lightly used BMW 340i (E90 or F80) 6sp?

Dollar for dollar (and not knowing the released price yet), I suspect this will be on par with the launch price of the Focus RS (ballpark $40k). If this is the case, I think it's too bad because the WRX is still a major value. That said, the new WRX is fugly.

Sound-wise, I think the Corolla GR sounds awesome.

prior to the brz i was driving a fwd hot hatch (volvo c30 r with a turbo 2.5). It was a fun car but after being in the brz for the last 5+ years i really enjoy RWD type dynamics a lot more than FWD. I know AWD cars like the WRX don't exactly handle like a RWD car, but much closer and much less understeery. theres just a lot more fun to be had when you're driving the rear wheels, at least for me.

rwd sedans were on the radar for me but other than an m340i or m3 (both out of my price range) nothing was really appealing to me in terms of having a light, dynamic sportscar type feel, and most options aren't really available with a stick anymore. to be honest with you my ideal next car would be something like an RX8 - a proper sports car with four doors. unfortunatley the RX8 isn't really a dailyable car at this point given age and reliability, but if they released an RX9 with suicide doors tomorrow i would be the first one at the dealership.

An often overlooked option is the Genesis G70. It came with a manual with the 2 liter turbo engine and is pretty nice to drive. I test drove one before buying the BRZ and quite liked it. Sadly they offered the manual only for a few years (I think 2020 and 2021) and in very small amounts so finding one is probably tough.

This reminded me. Kia Stinger.

Forget about the GR. If markups and long wait times don't put you off the fact that it's a FIRST Model Year should! Look at the the Gen2 Twins or the Focus RS.
We've had six Subarus and three were STi's. I've read all the bad reports but really I don't get it. I drove the shite out of my 2006 for 13 years and loved every minute of it. I haven't spoken with the present owner lately but last I heard he was loving it with no major problems. The wife only had her 2011 hatch for 4+ years before getting her 2016. She's had the sedan now going on 6 years and again, no problems.
As always, YMMV

As mentioned GR Corolla will be hard to get if you’re not paying a premium.

Also take a look at the size of a Corolla Hatch and see if you’re okay with it. It’s very cramped in the rear and if you’re a tall person the rear will be even more cramped and may not even fit a car seat without the back of the seat touching it.

The Latest WRX is a nice refinement over the previous Gen. Great space and drives well. Probably not as raw as GR Corolla or STI.

Sadly those are auto only.

The drivetrain in the GRC is almost identical to that found in the GR Yaris, which has been on sale for a few years. And this is Toyota we're talking about. I'd be more worried about a meteorite hitting me while driving, than a Toyota engineered engine failing on me. :thumbup:

GR Corolla will be damn near impossible if you miss out on the initial allocation.
Low volume, likely markups and according to my dealer i asked about them they mentioned Toyota Canada wont allow them to take reservations so its a first come first serve situation with what limited amount of units we get allocated up here.

Ive seen more new WRX's than i actually thought i'd see (seen an orange, a blue and a black one) and they're not that bad looking in person, cladding and all. Still think they work best with darker colours since the cladding will always stand out (Im normally on the World Rally Blue bandwagon with Subaru's but Magnetite grey would be my choice on the new WRX). Doing a colour match actually starts making the wheels look too small. And from what ive read about the new WRXs they're far more refined and comfortable than past units, and the transmission and power delivery are much smoother, so they're more "livable" as dailies, and they still have that AWD rally-inspired fun to be had.

In terms of children:
-If you have 2 cars, one can be the fun one, and one can be family one (and you can have the family one being a fun one as well). We have an X1 and a 86 and its worked fine. Advantage of being short asian people is that the backseats in the 86 is actually usable (still tight but usable. front passenger seat was barely usable with the rear facer but my wife was able to fit. Now that my son is in a front facer the space is a nonissue. Space behind the driver is limited so a rear facer would not fit, a front facer likely can though and I can always adjust to make the rear seat legroom passable)
-Backseat space will be a question of how much. The new corolla hatch is actually quite tight back there. I used to have a scion iM which has i think roughly the same amount of space and its not the most spacious, the rear facing child seat almost touches the front seat at a decent seating position. Our X1 has far more space in the back. I think a WRX would have more space. Again being an asian of relatively short stature, the interior space of these cars arent issues like they would be for 6ft tall people.

Ever since i got my 86 i've been kind of gaining more interest in Subaru's than i had been before (likely the boxer engine connection lol). So WRX/STI was never on my radar before but have become options if i want to eventually switch to an AWD car (Living in Canada, i feel like having AWD for peace of mind). Im always seeing WRX's around (less so STI's), and from what i gather, with the previous gen you would get the WRX (and its FA20T) for the overall package, while the STI (EJ25) will be if you are leaning towards the hardcore performance side of things.

If there was a 4-door version of the GR86/BRZ that drove the same, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It'd be a modern Japanese e36 M3 sedan. Definitely a hole in the market currently. Honestly the 2+2 BRZ is not a bad compromise for how little I use the rear seats (have two kids who use them occasionally), but still not fun.

FWIW I used to own an STI hatch and it doesn't really feel RWD at all at the limit despite the rear-biased torque split, it's more like FWD plus.

I'd see if you can get an allocation for a GR Corolla. Probably the closest new car match for what you're looking for. Maybe consider a low mileage, good condition E36 M3 sedan if you can find one. Possibly a used Focus RS.
Agree RX-8 is probably out of the question for reliability reasons.

All are sorta great options with caveats. Here's one more assho- I mean opinion for you to consider.

1. WRX: cheapest, easiest to get, practical/fantastic all around DD. I've had mine over 8 years and nothing came close to being a better value for me all this time (The new one is essentially 90% the same car.) It either comes with or can easily be modified to deliver all the performance you'll ever need, period.

Maybe hold out for next MY as there are rumblings of an emergency refresh to address the cladding, lawd have mercy.

2. GRC. I keep getting the feeling it will be surprisingly affordable (<$35k MSRP) though this will count for little due to scarcity and most dealers marking it up wildly. Otherwise, a great cross between the practicality, safety and functionality of the WRX and the emotional/performance excess of the STI. The main drawbacks for me so far are size and interior. The cockpit just doesn't seem like a special place to be. This is based on sitting in the current top trim hatch which appears largely identical. I'm sure the seats, gauge cluster and shifter will go a long way to make it feel better but.. TBD. The back seat is small, definitely limiting in terms of car seat options. WRX/STI are huge by comparison.

3. STI = cooler, relatively better looking VA car but entirely an emotional purchase over the WRX. Used, so mileage will vary widely as to what you pay for/get etc. You likely don't have to worry about previous abuse coming out to bite as it just ain't care.

Owned a low mileage used 2011 WRX hatch from 2013 on, 5 speed, Cobb flash tuned and fast as heck off the line. A pillars rattled over bumps when temps dropped below-10C.Zero problems during ownership 1.5 years.
Then a 2015 WRX brand new, zero issues for 3 year lease except gas door sometimes wouldn't pop open, used a credit card to open in a pinch.
Then 2018 STI from Sept 2017 to present. Zero problems, mostly used as a winter daily. Zero mods except tints!

2012 FR-S only real problem leaky taillights, small oil drip on rear cam plate I myself corrected.

People will tell you every car out there is a total writeofff, don't buy this, don't buy that. I say look at vehicles on a case-by-case basis.

I have cheap ass Nissan versa just for hauling daughter to daycare and grocery getters, I save a lot on insurance and gas mileage. All money saved could go for car parts or anything related to car care (garage equipment or detailing)

No body cares.

Ok boom👍

Having owned a 2018 STI and until recently contemplating between the new WRX vs new BRZ/ GR86, I would suggest skipping the STI and the WRX. Wait for the GR and don't fully write off the Type R.

STI: It's a jack of all trades car in that you can take it to the snow, carry 4 people, has adequate trunk space, with some minor mods (more front camber, rear swaybar) can be fund on the track/ autox. However, unless you spend $$$ on suspension such as better shocks/ coilovers, it will not handle as well on the track and autox as a bone stock BRZ/ GR86. Also the turbo lag is something that was cool maybe 15 years ago but is really the weakpoint of the EJ25 motor compare to more modern 4 cylinder turbo motors now available.

New WRX: I just can't get over the plastic cladding. I did almost pull the trigger and swapped my STI for a new WRX with the thought of buying a miata as a 2nd autox/ track car. After considering it more, aside from better gas mileage my STI looked better, was more capable, and I decided against it.

Corolla GR: based on specs and how the Yaris GR has been well received, this seems to be the car that the STI used to be; street car based on actual rally racing tech. If you can get one w/o markup, this is the one to get IMO.

Type R: although FWD, this car drives so well. I've driven my friend's Type R for extended period of time and it's the reason why I decided to part ways with my STI. I would suggest looking into this car more if you're looking for a car that has room, can be daily driven, but can also be a fund car for occasional autox and HPDE.

Most people never take their car to the track. My STI is a very winter capable vehicle since I already have a summer car. Best of both worlds. No matter how you slice it, Type R is not the optimal snow car. And the Toyota will be fun for sure, but the STI is still an excellent package. Regards to turbo lag, with S# mode it's plenty responsive enough for me. Not quite as powerful feeling as my Cobb flashed 2011 M5 WRX hatch was, but that's due to having one less shift zero to 60. I have never felt the need to reflash or modify this STI in any way as a daily driver. That seems to be unusual for STI owners but most don't also have a heavily modified FR-S in the garage.

hey guys,

still looking and have thought about keeping the BRZ and just getting a dailyable SUV for family duty and some light off roading (probably something on the cheap like a 10+ year old volvo XC90 or 4runner with lots of miles).

another thing i am thinking about is an EVO X. similar vibes to the STI but obviously older and a little more raw and aggressive. Powertrain is thought to be a little more reliable. i thought these were in the $30k range but it looks like more and more fall in the low-20s or even higher teens for cosmetically rougher examples. It does seem like a car i'd be interested in from a driving dynamics perspective, but do you guys think it would be dailyable in 2023 and onward? Like I said, i live in a mild climate and do not put tons of miles on currently as i have a very short commute only a few days a week. Price is kind of alluring as its probably only going to cost a little more than what i can sell my BRZ for. yeah its an older car, but so is the car i am currently dailying i.e. my BRZ which is perfectly reliable and gives me no headaches.


doesn't look like a corolla GR is happening based on how impossible they seem to be to get. its also a little on the small side for me to drop that much money on a "do it all" car

I have a bone stock Evo IX SE that I bought brand new 16 years ago. I know it’s not a X but it’s certainly less comfortable, and I have been daily driving mine and have never felt like it wasn’t “dailyable,” and I’ll be 40 this year. So I’d imagine a X would be even easier to live with. I’ve also looked at other cars through the years and test-driven them but never ended up getting another car.

You’d be fine with an Evo X — pretty reliable from what I remember (as I still read most threads on the Evo forums), as it’ll be more fun to drive than an STI but with a higher ceiling for modding if you’re into that and have plans to do it. Maintenance isn’t cheap but it’s never been anything I considered expensive either, even when I first got it and was in my early 20s with a crap job, but it’s more than fair, considering the performance you’re getting. Though the ones with the dual-clutch transmissions have even more expensive maintenance costs. I can’t remember if it’s part of the 15k or the 30k, but I remember it being another $150-200 on top of the same service interval for a non-DCT model. So that’s something to factor in… obviously not a life-changing amount of money, but it adds up.

Just to be fair, the interiors and amenities of the Evo were never great in any iteration (though the seats have always been awesome, except for the 2015 model which switched to some Lancer ones because the Recaros no longer met some safety requirement so they had to switch), so as long it doesn’t bother you, then you’ll enjoy the car overall.

Honestly I would get something new/lightly used and conformable for Family use and keep BRZ/FRS if you have room. If not Type R or GR Corolla would be my 2 choices. I would stay away from STI's and EVO's. I went with a ford Ranger Crew cab. Plenty of Room for me, my wife and both of our small kids. FRS is no no-op and not smog legal. Its 100% a track toy now and is trailered to events.

A Focus ST would be a good lower cost alternative to a GR. A Focus RS for similar prices to an Evo X if the ST isn't enough.

What makes you say you’d stay away from Evos and STIs? Just curious what your personal experiences are with them.

No direct but in-direct with ppl I knew. Maybe cause I am just getting older, but I would not want to daily them. Gas Mileage and comfort with modern safety features are not great with either.

Speaking of safety features, the GRC comes standard with all the fancy safety claptrap. Radar cruise, lane keep assist, pre-collision braking, blind spot monitor etc. I've never cared for any of it but now that I've got it and coexist just fine with it, I appreciate it. My wife will be driving the car a lot with the kids in it, so it's a big plus for that.

Without breaking out into a review, I can't imagine anyone coming from an STI or EVO being disappointed in the feel of the car or the performance. Despite being stiffer and sharper it is surprisingly way more refined feeling vs. my stock 15 WRX. Much more enjoyable to drive as a daily. It's hard to imagine then, how different it would be vs. EVO and STI. My seat time in both over the years was limited.

So if you want a car that's so 'because racecar' that it's hard to live with this won't be it. When you want to rip though, it rips. It's very clear that every dollar they put into it was to make it a good car to go fast in. Super easy to drive.

I appreciate your honest response. But with that being said, my guess is that the people you knew maybe had modified vehicles (which to be fair is likely going to account for a large chunk of the ones for sale these days, if not the majority of them). Though feel free to correct me, if my assumption is off.

I don't know how old you are, but like I said in my prior post, I'll be 40 this year, so while I'm not old, I don't consider myself part of the younger crowd anymore, so I do look at it from a different perspective than when I was half my age and both the Evo and STI were months from their US debut and the background of my computer screen as a college student. It's definitely not a "great" daily driver, but it's still an easy daily driver, in my opinion. The stock suspension is fine, it has plenty of interior space and a big trunk, and if you can control yourself, the mileage is decent. City driving is going to be mediocre at probably 19-20 mpg, but highway will be closer to 25, give or take. I managed to hit 31.89 and 32.24 mpg on successive weekends -- both of which were my personal bests, but clearly not indicative of "normal" highway fuel economy. You can see my Fuelly account (though I stopped updating it a few years back):

https://www.fuelly.com/car/mitsubish...uuuts83/213105

So that's the perspective from an Evo IX owner. The Evo X is more livable, in the sense that it's a little more comfortable, flatter torque curve, better interior amenities and more modern safety features, though its trunk is smaller due to the battery being moved there, though there's still a decent amount of space. And then of course the STI is even more comfortable than the Evo, just at the cost of handling, as it's almost universally been second place from a performance perspective. That's not to take away from it as a car, it's still a great option that just has some trade-offs, but it might be the perfect car for a lot of people. Just maybe not for people who want to go to the track.

The ones that did get modified, particularly with aftermarket springs or coilovers, are going to be the ones that aren't comfortable to drive. But stock or near stock is going to be fine, in my opinion.

Again, not trying to come off as biased, but I just wanted to give that personal insight.

I guess it really depends how much "Track Driving" will be required. Its hard to strattle that line. I am turning 38 this year, but I a have fully embraced the dedicated track car mantra which is paid for clean and clear. It something happens, oh well and rebuild it. I get my fun out on the track. DD I love my truck and drive like a grandpa now :bellyroll:

It does, but what makes these cars pretty good swiss army knives is that they can do pretty much everything pretty well without needing much modification. So you can have just one car and it be everything. It may not have the no-compromise focus of a dedicated track car, but it's a very persuasive option for people who don't have the luxury to have two vehicles or just don't want to have more than one car. There are a lot of people who track their DDs. Obviously they could get more out of it by having it just as a track car (and possibly no longer being concerned with being smog legal or being streetable), but one thing that kept me from getting a second car as a DD was that I didn't want to be in one car and in a certain moment wish I were in the other. It happened a lot when I'd be with my girlfriend and taking her Corolla somewhere, if we were going on a longer trip. If the absence of Toyota-like fuel economy is the price, it's not that big of a deal in my opinion.

I'm curious though about how cars like the GR Corolla and even the Civic Type R drive. I don't doubt that they're quick, but the real question is how does it feel from the driver's seat.

Someone coming from old school EVO/STI, my guess is

GRC: feels a bit sterile and dull, super dialed though. Then you push it and

https://youtu.be/q9zKYh8sY_E

CTR: same, but feels less sterile and dull when driven normally, interior makes it more exciting to be in

My wife had a 2007 Focus ST. It was barely a step up from a standard Focus. Noway it's an alternative to a GRC. Run, I say RUN away from an RS. Wife's dealership sold four over the three years they made them and all had major problems.


Quit now, you're just digging yourself a bigger hole. Evos and STi's are "WOT mobiles". People don't buy them for their fuel economy or plush ride.

I have hundreds of thousands of kilometers in STi's. (A 2006 sedan, 2011 hatch and a 2016 sedan.) We were the first registered owners for all three. The two sedans delivered a great driving experience stock right out of the box. The Hatchback would have cost us thousands $ to make it as good as either of the sedans. Shame too as I really liked the added space and available rally car inspired add-ons.

I don't think I am digging any hole. Everyone has an opinion and are entitled to it. :bonk:

When the person is looking at an Evo, which isn't much of a step up from a Lancer in terms of amenities, a Focus ST isn't quite so unreasonable. The two people I know with them each have well over 100k miles each and no drivetrain issues, which is why I suggested it. I specifically call out drivetrain because they are at the point where things like bushings are starting to wear. The person with the car dealing with bushings has 189,000 miles on it. I just asked.

I know the Focus RS had a head gasket recall, but haven't heard anything other than that. That could be the issue the dealership you mentioned referenced. However, I don't care enough to look up more than that. If the guy asking the question wants to consider them, great. If not, okey dokey.

I have a 5-6 paragraph write-up comparing the GRC to the new Civic Type R because my neighbor just got one and let me drive his. Haven’t bother posting it here but if anyone is interested just say the word.

Basically the new Civic Type R is the more dialed-in driver’s car…it’s more precise and visceral but only by a margin. This refers to steering, handling, shifting, and engine response. You have to exploit that small difference by driving the car harder. Around town, they feel equally good and driver-oriented.

Sure, why not. I am totally not a buyer of either car but am still curious about how they drive.

I originally posted this in the GRC groups so had to modify it a little to neutralize perspective

FL5 dashboard is lower and shorter (distance relative to windshield) than the GRC, which are favorable traits in a driver-oriented car. The driving position & seat height to the dashboard is perfect—very driver-oriented. The seats are super-bolstered and way more aggressive than the GRC’s.

The GRC has a high dashboard and you feel like you are placed inside the car rather than it feeling cockpit-like. Seating position is high. But it’s still a good distance from pedals.

Driving
FL5 feels precise and dialed-in. Steering weight in +R felt similar to the GRC in Normal mode—light and briefly numb off-center before the wheels respond. GRC in Sport mode feels heavier off-center.

Both have very progressive steering feel (sharper or more load in the turn the more feel) In general you get more feedback & weight in the FL5 (+R mode). The turn-in is sharp and you can feel the lower center of gravity in the FL5. Powering through a turn with throttle feels so good, like threading a needle. The GRC isn’t too far behind in terms of steering response, and I think the GRC will respond particularly well in tighter turns because of the shorter wheelbase.

The K20C1 engine is responsive and refined. It revs with a nice linear and responsive feel. The revs dropped immediately during a gear change—a similar trait with the G16. Turbo lag isn’t as evident compared to the G16 though. I only shifted at 4K, but as a passenger, the owner took it to redline and it had a very strong pull. Apparently it has some torque steer compared to previous Gen. But it’s not detrimental…in fact it probably gives the car more character lol.

The FL5’s shifter has very short throws and is precise, smooth, and quick (aka slick). You don’t feel as much “thump” compared to the GRC’s shifter, which is a little more mechanical as a result of the thump and notchiness (hello Lotus Evora). Clutch uptake in the FL5 is good and the bite is low but not as easy or apparent to get out of first in the GRC which has that feature where it adds like 200 rpm for you.

The ride in +R mode was quite similar to the GRC’s suspension setup. I wouldn’t say it was significantly harsher. Just a tad firmer. I was telling my neighbor that I could probably tolerate +R mode for a lengthy period.

FL5 is a little quieter at low RPM’s than the GRC but the FL5 also has piped-in audio which helps keep the engine sound-feedback consistent. The turbo noises are louder in the GRC though especially the whoosh when coming off the throttle. Also the GRC idles louder. The bass-heavy exhaust at low RPM’s is notably louder inside too.

Some obvious stuff to consider…the FL5 also has more trunk space, more rear leg room, and an arm rest. It feels substantially bigger on the road especially because you see a much bigger hood looking out and it’s wider.

I really like both cars and really admire the engineering of the FL5 and Type R’s in general. I wish I could have both! By definition, the FL5 is the more dialed-in, driver-oriented car. But the GRC isn’t far behind at all. I’d say the GRC is about 87-92% as driver-oriented compared to the FL5, and most of the difference would be at higher-performance driving. The FL5 delivers the experience with some finesse and gives you a well-positioned dashboard and seat. On the other hand, I find the GRC more immersive since it is a little louder around town and has the louder turbo noises and beefy gearbox.

What I get from both cars though is the desire to drive them more. And both give me the desire to drive them on a track or twisties. So they both succeeded in that regard.