Gr86 Cup, but with a caveat
 

So sure most in this sub forum have heard the announcement. I have not raced even remotely professionally, but have wanted to all my life. I now live within driving distance of two good tracks. As we all know a real racing series can get expensive, more so than it already can be do a random event a couple times a year.


My request is that they build the car at same facility with roll cage and everything...just no drivetrain. I am sure most here would know why. I see it as 1) It is still a "toyota" if I put some other motor in it and race it in Gridlife or whatnot 2) I could put in a full aluminum Supra 3.0L for some real fun and keep it toyota

At any rate it would make them money and create brand recognition either way. Anyone racing at any level knows that the new HPDE Honda civic announcement is awesome value. I am a Honda guy! The amount of money to find a beater and fix up would literally equal buying that car. However, I can't afford a Lotus Emira and this GR86 is the closest one can get to perfection in my eyes. Even better than the new Supra(f*ck electric steering.)


So take the poll and let them know!

I think it would take huge demand for them to do this. They are building the car especially for a one-make race series.

For it to be profitable for them to sell what would essentially be nothing but a body-in-white, I think you'd need a significant number of customers lining up to buy them. While there are enthusiasts like you looking for one, I'm not sure how large of a demand there would be if there wasn't a direct linkage to a race series somewhere which wouldn't have the homologation rules which lock in a powertrain.

I firmly believe if they announced a body in white for a fair price it would literally have more customers.



The engineers have how many hours logged, the newest software and testing methods and would love to have the suspension, brakes, and other chassis bits built by them(plus cage etc). Plus input from their racing teams.


Most here quite frankly couldn't build a comparable vehicle for years and alot of wasted dollars. Just my two cents.

Doesn't building a car with no drivetrain defeat the point of the series? My understanding is these one make Cup races are designed with having documentation about the source of the powertrain; sealed trans or engine units to ensure fairness.


Or are you wanting the cup car shell so you can put your own drivetrain choice in and race in a different series?

Just wanted to comment that the current Supra engine isn't built by Toyota either.

@Swift you might want to do a bit more research.

And that these cars all have EPS from factory... lol.

Not Grassroots Racing
 

In case anyone missed the updated information, the GR86 Cup car will cost $125,000 per car, with entry fees costing $32,000 for the 7 week-end series.

Entry level... Grassroots Racing... what a joke. Shame on you Toyota. Should be fun to watch a bunch of trust fund babies who have no racing skills run around. It's a swing and a miss.

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I mean, the numbers lined up exactly as expected based on competing series.

Is it though? A Civic SI race car costs $55,000, Civic Type-R $90,000, Miata $59,000 (although I'm not sure if this is an up-to-date price).
Maybe the GR86 Cup car offers substantially more than the other examples. Maybe the other race series cost more, making it a wash for a season's racing, I don't know. $125,000 + $32,000 certainly seems steep for for a $30,000 MSRP'd car.

The up to date price on the Miata is over $80k USD in Global MX5 Cup spec.

I wrote out a response earlier in this thread that laid out where the cost comes from, but ended up not bothering so I will summarize what I said.

Basically, Honda gets away with the TCA Civic because it is an extremely mass produced chassis/motor combination that it is relatively simple as far as race cars go and was developed in house by HPD.

The Global MX5 Cup and the 86Cup are more expensive because they are not built on a super high production chassis, are outsourcing the builds to small race car companies, and have more goodies like a sequential transmission.

The 86 doesn't have a long history of spec racing behind it like the Miata (money), adds more frills like a Bosch Motorsports ABS unit, Bosch ECU, etc.



Quite frankly, if Toyota cared about grassroots enthusiasts they'd have the equivalent of what Mazda has with Mazda Motorsports contingency and part pricing. Honda does some nice perks with HPD, but not to the level that Mazda does.

The former Long Road Racing built the factory race cars for the Global MX5 cup. I had my Spec Miata's rollcage, dropped floorpan, and custom seat mount done there before they closed. https://www.autoweek.com/racing/more...alls-it-a-day/ I have a bunch of photos of the cars and facility I've never posted anywhere, but my point is this:

During the over-a-month-long-process, when my customer rep would text or email me weekly updates and have phone conversations with me about the state of the work, or on my visits to the facility, I got to see the quality of their work. It was beyond literally any other work I've ever seen done, some by high-end race shops or custom vehicle manufacturers. And the base Global cup car cost $60K. Spec-rules-compliant options could drive that up to over $90K. LRR provided factory support to individuals as well - I didn't ask the cost, but it HAD to be over $20K/yr given what their support entailed. Most of the racers/teams also sent their cars back to LRR to have damage repaired, beyond any trackside fix that was implemented to keep the driver in the race, at exorbitant cost.

These "factory" spec series are not cheap. Hell, non-factory Spec series like Spec Miata, are not cheap. I bought a not-entirely-roadworthy neglected Miata and got it BARELY legal to get on the track in the series and the cost was about $18K, with all labor outside of the rollcage and floorpan done by me. It would have cost me another 15-20K to "get competitive", and unknown tens of thousands per season to keep in the running.

Factory series are not cheap. Spec series are not cheap. Time Trials is not cheap. 24Hr of Lemons is not cheap. Grassroots motorsports, is not cheap. Racing, is not cheap.

It's an expensive hobby, it's always going to be expensive, and you're never going to earn money doing it as a racer.

EDIT: Christ, forgot my closing statement.
If you contacted the facility that's making the race cars, they might do what you want - all the chassis work, no engine. It'd still probably be in the $50K+ range. LRR would have done it - sourced a chassis, built it, etc., they were just a high-end race shop that did other work, too. Given that it's a "TRD" facility, maybe not; the only way you could know is by calling them and asking. I highly doubt they'd do it on semi-production basis; the customer base for high-end custom race chassis isn't large.

I'm a few days late but this point is easily addressed:

look at Toyota's own press release.

then look at the fact that it is still a GR branded car/series but built at TRD.

the two are not the same.

this platform has no global potential for a one-make car when the company's own internal politics (TRD vs Gazoo Racing vs TRD Japan vs TGR Europe) and structure prevents a single car used worldwide.

I understand that, it was a separate point from anything I'd said above and not related to the GR Cup.

Don't Body in white aka cars with no VIN # basically get dumped into unlimited in any series like Gridlife, etc. So, if you want to run Gridlife, probably need to start with a normal car.

You are aware the Toyota provides MUCH better contingency than most makes, right? for the typical classes an 86 would run in SCCA, here's the payouts for a race win:

SCCA Majors program:
Toyota: $400, 2 starters minimum, no reduction in payout.
Mazda: $600, 4 starters min or reduced payout, scaled by # of cars.
Nissan: $550, 5 starters required. 50% reduction in payout with 4 or fewer in class

No other Mfr offers contingency for their cars in a class that an 86 would compete in (STU, STL, T3, T4). Ford offers support only in T1, T2, T3, AS, FF, and SRF3. The 86 is only eligible for T3.
Mini and Honda have both dropped stopped grassroots support entirely in the last few years, and the rest of the Mfrs I've not seen support club level racing in the last 15 years.

___
Regional Club Racing:
Toyota: $300 PER RACE for a win, 2 starters minimum.
Mazda: $500-750 for a regional points championship. Payouts down to 5th with various amounts depending on # of races and racers

No other Mfr offers contingency at the regional level. Therefore, I conclude the Toyota truly offers the BEST grassroots support since they offer payouts per race even at a regional level of competition. NO OTHER MFR does that, not even Mazda.

Source: https://www.scca.com/pages/main-contingency


Toyota's parts program is also decent--- find your price from your chosen dealer- in person or online, then buy the parts and send a copy of the receipt to Toyota; they reimburse you 10%.

Nissan Motorsports catalog offerings are a joke of shift knobs, floormats, stickers, and a few other baubles and bolt-ons. They USED to have an excellent parts program very similar to Mazda, but that went away about 15 years ago.

I will say that Mazda's parts program is amazing. They offer OEM parts at roughly 35% off and aftermarket race-spec stuff (carbotech and hawk race brake pads Tilton clutches, penske shocks, etc) straight off their Motorsports website at great prices. I see no other manufacturer that supports grassroots racing like they do.

So on a national event level, Toyota is a close second in support and contingency behind Mazda, with Nissan 3rd and the rest FAR behind.
On a regional level, Toyota beats everyone, hands-down.

Signed,
A former Nissan & Mazda racer, now flogging a Toyota and loving the support! :)

I live in a NASA area with no SCCA presence, unfortunately Toyota provides zero contingency through NASA unless I'm missing something. Mazda, Ford, and Nissan pay out to various degrees, but it isn't as generous as what you listed there for the regional $300/race Toyota has. The tie-in that Mazda and Toyo have is pretty nice though.

The Mazda Motosports part pricing is a gem, that is for sure. I was super happy with their pricing and their shipping costs for large things like quarter panels were insanely cheap.

Do you have a link to this Toyota 10% part discount thing you mentioned, or is that a SCCA perk?

SCCA is fairly strong here as well as NASA, but unfortunately there's not a lot of cars in my class on a regular basis. next season I plan to travel a little and try to get to some other tracks in the south, but that depends on fuel prices. it was painful this season with $5/gal diesel for the tow beast. It was costing me over $1000 a weekend just in fuel to get to tracks within TX!!
That said, I'm a huge fan of "if you built it, they will come". Chaps me arse when people don't enter races until they see someone else enter... then show up to the track on the weekend without their car and complain that there's nobody entered. One weekend I heard the same excuse from FIVE people that race in my class.. "well I was waiting to see if someone else would enter before I did. I didn't want to show up by myself."
Well dumbass, if you'd have entered, someone else would have seen it and entered as well!


Regarding the parts info and whatnot, it's got the information within the SCCA contingency packet.

https://www.scca.com/pages/main-contingency
--->
https://www.scca.com/downloads/59820...-scca/download

I notice the box on the contingency signup form next to sanctioning body has a big fat blank on it. you might just try contacting Mike @ Toyota and ask if they offer anything for NASA. I would say there's more Toyotas in NASA than SCCA, so it certainly can't hurt to ask!