Lugnuts rusting and falling apart?
 

I've had two or three lug nuts completely rust and break apart. Today I took my car in to get a tire rotation and one of them broke in a weird way (not rust, just the metal broke on top) to where they can't even take it off. What is going on? The thing lives in a garage!

Also, how the hell are they going to get this off?

In a sense you are lucky - if you can get the other 4 off (or break them in a similar way) you can get the wheel off and tap out what's left of the stud. Replace with a new stud and you are ready to roll again.

Chances are during the previous tire rotation the lug nut was cross-threaded.

None of your studs would have broke from the little surface rust they may have had. They would not rust through short of several decades parked in a field and even then they would seize before breaking.
The most common reason to break lugs is to over torque them or side load when removing the nuts.
That break looks like side loading (uneven pressure on the wrench).

Hmm. So I should have pointed the finger back at discount tire since they are the only ones who have touched the tires since I got it in 2013. Sigh. Ok, off to be mean to someone.

Appears to be a whole lot of uga duga's going on there. I'd be willing to bet those wheels get put on with an impact, probably never seen a torque wrench.

the lugs just sometimes break on these cars.

i've been the only one that's ever done anything with the wheels on my car. i've never used an impact. always a 4-cross wrench, by hand.

i've broken 3 lug studs. fortunately, all in the front, where they're somewhat easy to change.

the lugs just sometimes break on these cars.

i've been the only one that's ever done anything with the wheels on my car. i've never used an impact. always a 4-cross wrench, by hand.

i've broken 3 lug studs. fortunately, all in the front, where they're somewhat easy to change.

I'd like to think I'm the only one touching my wheels but during state inspection every year they pull the wheels. I guess they can't see the pads :sigh: Do they not do that where you are?

The wheels on my 14 were changed twice a year. They hand started every time, used an impact to snug and then finished with a torque wrench. Nothing broke ever. And those are lugs that saw the most possible extreme weather you can get.
The 4 cross wrench is horrible for breaking studs. The leverage created by having the cross bar so far from the nut give so much side shear pressure that no matter how careful you are you can snap a stud in a heartbeat. I pitched my cross wrench in the scrap pile in about 1975 and switched to a Johnson bar with a long socket. Never broke a stud again.

Most probably over torqued. I did a lot of wheel changes on the factory studs on my 2013 while using a torque wrench and never had one break. I also used anti-seize lube on my studs. Lots of debate can be had on if you need anti-seize, but it worked for me.

do you have a link to something similar?

i've got a big impact i use for work, was just trying to avoid excessive force by using the 4-cross. not opposed to doing things differently though. i hate having to change studs.

it's just weird to me though. this is the only vehicle i've ever broken studs on, used the same technique on my ford, mitsubishi, and chrysler of the past. well, the chrysler had an issue with seized lug nuts, but that was specifically because i was a dummy that changed the stock lugs for fancy colored aluminum anodized versions, and then subjected dissimilar metals to salt...

Still never broken one (knocking on wood as I type this). Same method is used still, hand started then impact to when they catch, and torque wrench to finish them off. I carry three spares in my track tool box for emergencies, but so far have not needed them for my own car.

Just your standard 1/2 inch breaker bar. I should have avoided the old and possibly Canadian term.

The 4 cross was needed back in the day when wheels were often set several inches back into the fender and the reach was a necessary evil.

And you have probably had the wheels off and on it way more than I ever did. It is fun seeing that a car that had high mileage, all season, DD use and then modified street and track use is actually still holding up so well and has had few of the “common” issues people talk about.


Ya there is nothing at all wrong with using an impact as long as the nut is not even slightly cross threaded (which is almost guaranteed to happen when people slap the nut in the socket and go to town) or they run it up to full speed until it is forced to stop.

Yea, I always figured a breaker bar would put too much side load on the lugs, so avoided it...

You aren’t getting the side load that is being amplified by the extension on the cross. Just stay as short of a socket as you need to keep the bar at a 90 degree angle but still clear the fender.
The cross is also always going to have side load since it is completely impossible to exert the exact same pressure with both hands. One side or the other is always going to be either pushing up and toward you or down and away.
The only plus to the cross is that you can spin the nuts once loose.

i'll give it a shot next time.

i will say i've never lost a lug spinning them on, it's always taking them off. so the side load from the 4-cross is the only thing that sorta makes sense.

i'll give it a shot next time.

i will say i've never lost a lug spinning them on, it's always taking them off. so the side load from the 4-cross is the only thing that sorta makes sense.

the wheel studs on the car are fairly temperamental. When my car was still under warranty they would rotate my tires for free and they either cross threaded or over torqued the lugs and i broke 1 stud and when trying to take another lug off it was clear i was going to need to break that one too. I took it back to toyota to complain and the service manager was a **** about it. i had them fix those studs, went to check none of the other lugs/studs were a problem, and then never took my car there again.


It's uncommon for places like America's Tire to hand start the threads and to use the air gun to start the threads and over torque using the same tool.

I have since rotated my tires on my own constantly without ANY issues, the one time 3 weeks ago i took it to Americas Tire to have a small hole patched and they completely destroyed my locking lug even though i told them the key was in the center console area.

its hard to find good help these days. who would have thought lug nut install would be a bridge too far for a tire place and also dealership techs?

my process removing lugs: 1/2 drive impact (battery).


My process installing lugs: anti-seize, hand thread until its clear they have been started, 3/8 drive impact (battery) mid speed just until it bottoms and start clicking and then quickly stop, Torque wrench.


This is the process we used for changing tires on the Formula Drift cars I worked on (minus adding anti-seize every time) and never had issues in all those tire changes over the course of 5 years. Thousands of tire changes and no issues so thats what i stayed doing.

The problem with some shops (there are probably more good than bad) is that hand starting all those nuts takes time and time is money. They end up sticking them in an impact gun and however they thread they thread. Then they just hammer them down at max speed and move on.
The tire shop I use specializes in raised trucks and the crew there are all “enthusiasts” so they take the extra few minutes to treat each vehicle like it is their own.

I taught a lesson to the tire guy last week. He was doing the tires on his A5 and he was reaching for the Astro 1894 THOR gun to put them back on (SMA's Big Nasty(TM)).

I went "nah dude, just snug 'em up with my tiny 3/8ths and finish it up with my digital torque wrench"

He found out there and then that yes, you can rocket past 89 lb/ft even with a 3/8ths gun without even being nasty on it, because he was past 89 on every bolt. Moral of the story is, 89 lb/ft is "one handed snug" with a breaker bar, so even if you don't think you're overtorquing them, you probably are. If you do your tires, no sense in buying an expensive digital wrench with a calibration certificate, this is enough

https://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-...nch-63882.html

I have one tire shop that I trust in my area. Otherwise I just drop off my wheels most of the time for my vehicles. I probably had over 100 tire changes on stock rear studs with no failure. They lasted longer then the hubs did.

very true. im guessing that the speed either makes up for cost of replacing broken parts or maybe some of these places just haven't done the numbers to figure out what the cost benefit might be to doing things the "right way".
The Discount Tire that ruined my locking lug did say they would replace it but I ended up getting an entirely new set of lugs since i needed closed ended ones anyway and i never went back to have them pay so i guess they skated there. was my fault for trusting them with the car anyway haha

I bet the majority of people they screw up on just accept "Oh it just broke on it's own so that will be an extra $50".
The car guys that know the difference and would actually fight it are such a tiny speck in the overall scheme of things that the time saved will always mean profit for the shady places.

I've never had so many problems with wheel studs and nuts before i got this car. Ended up getting them all changed to ARP and *knock on wood* have not had problems since.

So I had to replace 3 studs, $400 later :(

oof. thats about twice what i'd expect it to cost.

Ouch

On the plus side, the dealership will rotate my tires for free going forward. They didn't admit it outright but did mention I wasn't the only one having issues with studs and lugnuts on the FRS.

@lynnmichelle oof, dealerships charge way too much for wheel stud replacement! I found out too when I snapped 3 wheel studs on a brake job.

Just get ARP wheel studs as soon as you start having trouble with snapping wheel studs. I haven't had trouble with any of them since installing years ago.

the dealership is highly likely to mess up more studs moving forward. I wouldn't take it back to them and just do the rotation yourself if at all possible using the processes that some of us went over in the thread.

Lol did they mention having issues with every other model Subaru makes?
There is nothing special or different with the FRS studs.
The whole Subaru line up use the same part. If they are strong enough for an Ascent or Wilderness Outback they are strong enough for a FRS or BRZ.
https://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru__/...8365FE001.html
In all probably they are probability identical to all Toyota models as well.

lol. it cost me about an hour and $25 at advance auto...