Oil changes/Fumoto valve...
 

I'm assuming I wasn't the only one who was annoyed to find out the simple/easy small hole in the underbody panel for oil changes (which easily accommodated a Fumoto valve) in Gen 1 has been changed to a 3 bolt removable panel in Gen 2. Not sure if the Fumoto valve fits under this panel, but regardless, having to remove the panel in the first place sort of defeats the purpose of the Fumoto valve, namely not having to use any tools at all for an oil change (unless you screw your oil filter on too tight).

In any event, was curious if anyone has tackled this yet. Given it's size, I don't really want to just leave the panel off - it's a lot bigger hole than what was on Gen 1. Was thinking of just cutting the smallest possible hole in the panel using an angle grinder. Thoughts on this? Anyone done it already and have a picture? Want to make the hole as small as possible while still giving relatively easy access to the valve. Any other ideas?

The fumoto valve fits, but the clearance to the panel isn’t enough to make me feel comfortable with it. Unlike my 2013 I decided to deal with it and go with the drain plug for now.

Just get an oil extractor and you don't even have to lift the car up.

Then again, I take advantage of my flex schedule and just the car to the shop and work from there over WiFi while they handle it.

Call me crazy, but I've never liked the idea of an extractor.

And I believe we've had this discussion, but there are multiple good reasons to change your own oil (cost, convenience). But the biggest, by far, is to make sure you get the oil and filter that you want and know is correct and that it was actually done, correctly. Not to mention, any chance you can get to keep someone else from driving your car without you in it is worth it IMHO.

I didn't even try because once I already have to take 2 bolts off (you can leave one of the panel bolts on), then grabbing another ratchet (I use a small one on the panel bolts, a medium one on the drain plug) is not a big deal.

I still think cutting a small hole in the panel is the answer...

I use the fumoto and use my M18 surge to remove and reinstall the bolts on the lowest setting. I attach the fitting with the hose, drain and walk away for a bit (after fiddling with the filter change).

The underbody panel change was to discourage the use of the valve because 1) some people will take their car to the dealer for an oil change, and 2) to address the too often occurring problem where us gen1 idiots bottom out our cars going over speed bumps at 40 mph, drop all the oil, and drive another 150 miles until the engine seizes up.

Either that or it's a conspiracy to piss off owners of both generation.

On my first gen the panel was lower than the Fumoto so you have to rip the panel off to get to the valve.

I had a scare once where somebody had left a mini-manhole cover for a water valve or something on the road at night and I drove over it at full speed. Very scary bang and a nice gash in the panel. Thankfully not near the valve.

to this day, i genuinely don't understand why the most common service to perform to an ICE vehicle requires wrenches, and getting covered in oil.

I will call you crazy, because there are plenty of videos and other evidence to show they get out just as much old oil as just opening the drain plug.

I guess maybe that's a concern for people going to Jiffy Lube, but I take my cars to the guy who at any time has Ferrari's, Saleen's, Lambo's, or his own Viper in the bay.

What world do you live in where cars are driven after an oil change by the techs, or are you just making things up? Or do you consider the 400 ft driving the car from the back to the front of the shop as somehow damaging?

As for cost/convenience? I literally spent $10 more to have an indy pro change the oil in my 135 vs doing it myself. I get to "work from the shop" for the morning and not get dirty, or spend an hour in the garage on a saturday? That $10 more is totally worth it.

I went the the non-nippled fumoto to maximize clearance. It fits fine, but certainly not a ton of extra clearance. Easiest oil change ever.

Are dealership techs going to have a cow over my Fumoto valve? I installed the short nipple version. It fits fine under the panel hatch and points in the preferred direction.

couldn't tell you. i'm too paranoid to ever allow anyone to work on my vehicles that i don't have their personal number/home address.

i went to lincoln tech. cars went into those bays for a tire change, and left with the steering wheel crooked and a broken tail light...

Hey, that's great. You do you. And that you have found an awesome shop that works on Ferraris, Saleens, and Lambos that is willing to take time out from their exotic car repair schedule to give you a quality oil change for $55 is impressive. Go for it. But for me, I don't have that option (and doubt I would use it if I could) because it is more convenient, on my schedule, to do it in my garage.

As for the extractor, it's not about the amount of oil. It's about sucking oil through a tube that engineers didn't design oil to be sucked out of. If nothing else, I don't like the idea of coating the entire inside of the oil pan/sump and everything else with the used contaminated oil when I can drain it through the bottom as it was designed to leaving whatever particles might be in the oil at the bottom of the pan. Also, having being an engineer, I am always leery of placing any kind of pressure or vacuum on a system that wasn't designed for that.

And yes, I don't like people I don't know and trust driving my car at anytime for any reason (one of many, many reasons I don't like/use valets - ever).

What are you talking about? Oil extractors are the default oil drain process for Benzes, has been for literal DECADES. A Benz's engine/sump design is not in any way different than anyone else's to accommodate the extractor. Since then VW/Audi do too and a lot of BMW did before they removed the dipsticks. It works just fine, the only reason othershops don't do it is that the extractors and their maintenance cost more than a dumb wrench and crush washer.

Where did I say $55? You can't buy an OEM filter and 7 quarts of quality synthetic for $55. That's why I pointed out $10 more than it would cost me to do it myself. The 135 was a $95 oil change. $85 if I did it myself.

And I don't have to spend an hour in the garage, take the oil to get recycled, etc.

Modern BMWs don't have dipsticks. They pull the oil out through where the filter goes. Which is under pressure when the engine is running. The same place is used for oil extractors on Subaru's.

I'm sure you can find a reputable shop where you live.

Hey all good, bro. First, if it takes you an hour to change your oil, I think we all agree that you should take it to someone else. And you are willing to drive to and from a shop and sit (on their timeline) but unwilling to dump recycled oil every 3-4 oil changes on your own?

As far as cost, the Gen2 takes 5+ quarts and I can get that for $35. An OEM filter costs $10. $45 for me all in for my oil change. I don't know any reputable shop near me that would do the same for less than $90.

Don't know much about extractors. As far as the oil lines being under pressure, that is my point. It's designed to be a positive pressure, not negative pressure or vacuum, situation. Very, very different. Systems that are designed to contain 100s of lbs of pressure often cannot take 10 lbs of vacuum.

And no, nobody is forcing you to do your own oil changes. As I said, if it takes you an hour, you probably shouldn't be doing them anyhow.

Never done the research. I have no idea whether a certain oil system is designed to be put under negative pressure or not. Having said that, my point stands. There are very specific engineering concerns with negative and positive pressure environments. They CAN be designed to do both. They are not NECESSARILY designed to do both. That's all I am saying.

There's crank case vacuum, all throttle body engines experience quite a lot of it at idle because the intake manifold is sucking on the PCV system extra hard with the throttle body closed. The weird 'no throttle body' engines that do all their throttle control through variable valve timing and lift still have an external system to pull a vacuum on the crankcase, it's desirable to help the piston rings make a good seal and to keep you from leaving a ton of oil on the cylinder walls when the piston retreats.

Besides, you won't get good enough seal on the tube that you slide in to actually pull a vacuum, it's not a press fit tube. That's like expecting a soda cup to collapse because you're sucking on the straw.

I'm using an oil extractor.

A friend with a first gen has been using an oil extractor for his car since he bought it new in 2014. There hasn't been any issues

Running the short Fumoto on our 22 mule without issue.

It's the first mod on every shop car when the break-in oil comes out.

You act like a loose fitting plastic tube is pulling a ton of vacuum on the system. It isn't.


I read it as, "you only take an hour during an oil change service?" I usually spend more time then that since it is an opportunity to inspect the whole underside of the car while I have it on jackstands.

I've actually had soda cups collapse from sucking on the straw, soo...
As I also said, no experience with extractors and don't intend to ever have any when setting out a couple of ramps takes almost no time. Do you want another reason, there is an absolute 0% chance I spill used engine oil all over my engine bay if I drain it from the bottom. Not sure how using an extractor (which a few people do) vs. draining from the bottom (which the vast majority of people do) is such an issue. I mean, you don't use one - why not?

As I said, zero knowledge of extractors of any type, so you can tell me whatever you want about how they work. But unless they have a tube that goes all the way down through the line of the oil filter into the bottom of the oil pan (not even sure that is possible - I have no idea of the architecture of most cars, much less the GR86/BRZ), they have to pull at least some vacuum.

By the way, just watched a couple oil extractor videos and I can't think of any good reason to use one, LOL. In most of the videos they left a decent amount of oil in the pan. And believe me, there is a significantly greater than 0% chance you end up dripping (if not spraying) used oil inside your engine bay. Why in the world would anybody do this in favor of couple of ramps???

And speaking of that, if you put your car on jackstands to do an oil change, you and I are already on completely different pages as to what is involved in an oil change.

I like that you continue to attack me because you don't seem to understand modern vehicles.

An hour isn't a long time. The car needs to be up to temp, which in normal driving takes 15-20 minutes. Then pull it in the garage, get it on jack stands, pull the drain plug, give it ample time to drain. Then refill let it idle, ensure no leaks, then check the level again.

JFC dude, why do you try to fight anything that's ever said on this forum?

You're sounding like a Karen right now. "I have no knowledge of X, but I'm going to tell you why it doesn't work."

You should take a break from the internet for a while.

Why are you even on a thread about using a Fumoto valve/changing oil when you don't even do it? Look in the mirror, bra...

I'm still trying to figure out why you are trying to convince me to use an extractor when you don't even do your own oil changes. Makes no freakin' sense...:iono:

As for your procedure for doing an oil change (which you don't do). Drive up to the garage after moderate driving - line the car up straight, open the garage door, grab the ramps, drive up on the ramps, put oil pan under car, release Fumoto valve, unscrew filter, close valve, remove pan, put on new filter, fill oil - 10 minutes tops.

If you are admittedly ignorant on oil extractors then why argue it? If you don't want to use one cool, more than one way to skin a cat. Not everyone has a driveway they can use ramps or stands on so an extractor is a good substitute for a DIY'er that may be in a situation they can't safely get the car in the air. I've used extractors a lot, not for my personal stuff, and have never had any kind of failure with one that resulted in oil going anywhere but the reservoir. And yes, dipsticks go down into the pan, that is where the oil is.

I can't get my car on ramps. If I am going to have it in the air on jackstands I might as well take the opportunity to do a nut and bolt check and inspect things. I am not going to travel 3 hours and have a day cut short because of an issue that could have been easily caught crawling around under the car with a flashlight. I consider an oil change as part of a service, not one job.

Whatever, I don't give a crap if you want to use an extractor or not, I really don't. Heck, I'm not even saying they are bad - I was just explaining why I don't/wouldn't use one.

This is like s30series in the BBK thread all over again and this guy is going on the same list.

Won't research extractors or even the engine, but has decided absolutely 100% that there is too much risk involved. Growth vs fixed mindset omg. :bonk:

Isn't the point of the Fumoto valve to not have to put it on jack stands in the first place? I know I can change my oil by turning the wheel and flipping the valve.

:clap: Someone needs a snickers.

You can get a pan under your car?

I thought it was just for ease of not having do undo the drain plug.

I was able to get a pan under my lowered 2013.

Haven't installed my valve on the 2022 yet.

Yes. I guess I have a low profile pan. It also doesn't hurt that my arm is as thick as a pixi stix

I'm short in a lot of areas, I don't think I could reach it if my car was tall enough anyway.

I've never used an extractor...
Since we have a dipstick, would we go through there for the extraction?

the point of my fumoto valves have always been to better control the oil stream. i prefer to use the hose.

the specific reasoning is because i'll get everything lined up, and it'll either overshoot the pan no matter where i place it, or near the end, will undershoot the pan, and i still end up with oil on my driveway. or i'll move the pan halfway through to adjust for the stream, it'll catch on some crack i've never noticed and splash onto the driveway anyways...

No doubt. I cover half the garage with cardboard cuz I'm bound to step in something and it would look like a crime scene when I'm done. I don't think I open the valve to full spill for the same reason. I still like the convenience of not having to pull out the jack. Oil changes for me are usually pull the plug and come back in two days to wrap up. I get sidetracked easily.