GR86 vs Camaro SS 1LE (weekend / track)
 

How do they compare for daily drive / weekend and track? I haven't had any opportunity to test drive either cars. Only plan to do a few track day per year. Mainly will be used for weekend and occasional daily.

One is smaller and lighter and one is bigger and heavier. You need to drive both and see which you prefer

If you just want faster lap times go with the Camaro. If your desire is to become a better driver go with the 86.

With the Camaro you will be far more likely to develop bad habits driven by that fact that you can cover up your errors with power. On the other hand the 86 will help expose your errors and weaknesses so that you can work on them.

As for daily drivability, the Camaro is a nightmare to see out of but it is also a larger, has a useable backseat and is arguably a more comfortable car. The 86 is smaller, but still with very usable space (other than the backseat) and is something that you can rev out on even a grocery store run without getting into too much trouble.

Both cars are around equally suited for both jobs.. The real question is how much are you willing to spend to do it?


The 86 sacrifices power and space to add lightness, and overall costs less to run (smaller tires, smaller brakes, more fuel efficient).
The Camaro is powerful, but that requires bigger tires, bigger brakes, and more gas.


I own a gr86, and have rented a Camaro SS (non-1LE) on a few occasions, and frankly I prefer lightness over a lighter wallet.

If you plan on doing ANYTHING other than just daily drive (ie: autocross or track), the Camaro costs explode exponentially.

Tires are easily twice the price.
Gas consumption skyrockets.
Brake components are going to be an issue tho from what I understand, the SS 1LE isn't as underbraked as the new twins.

Daily driving, the Camaro is akin to driving a WW1 tank with slits for vision (I am exagerrating) in comparison to the decent-ish twin.

Test drove one on the weekend since my son-in-law is shopping for them.
The 2022 rear seat is just as bad (or possibly worse when you consider head room) as the twins and the rear seat may be a deal breaker.

https://www.autoguide.com/blog/wp-co...ck-Seat-01.jpg

Although the car is certainly larger the drivers position is much more cramped due to the massive interior door panels that stick into the cabin and the huge console up the center. Any front passenger over about 5'7" WILL hit their knees on the stupid protruding glove box! The 86/BRZ has much more usable space for the front seat passengers even though a smaller car. They really have upped their game on interior quality though.
https://cdn.carbuzz.com/gallery-imag...18163-1600.jpg
https://dealerinspire-image-library-...LILuwornqI.jpg

They lowered the waistline a little so you don't feel quite so much like you are in a bathtub but... Those door panels push you so far into the car that shoulder checks are awkward to the point of almost impossible. You want to see behind you or where the front of the car actually is? Ya good luck with that! @Frost you were not exaggerating in any form.

Cost of fuel, tire, brakes, etc aside I would not be interested in daily driving a Camaro in any form. They are better than the last gen (I shopped them in 2014) but still a total pain.

I hate to say it but if shopping for a Pony car for DD and track the upper level Mustang is a far superior choice. And I can not stand Mustangs so that is saying something.

For track duty, the Camaro platform is superior to the Mustang platform in every respect, it is not even close.

With the Camaro, if you are over 5'11" and are first in line at a red light, chances are very good you are literally going to have to duck your head down to see the street lights.

Now if we could only copy/paste the Camaro's engine note into the crappy GR86 cabin sound augmentation....

GR86 vs Camaro SS 1LE (weekend / track)
 

[FLAMESUIT] Hot take, IMO the LS sounds like garbage. Easily the worst sounding V8 to me I can think of.[/FLAMESUIT]

Can't believe I'm saying this but the GF's 2020 RS can take a corner way better than I expected, maybe due to V6 giving it a lighter nose? Regardless my FRS still will whoop hers in the tight & twisty's. To answer OP's question I say it depends where you live. Have mountains/canyons closeby? 86. Live in Texas/Florida/insert flat state here. Camaro. My FRS is kinda boring around Charlotte, NC. But when I take it to the mountains an hour away it really livens up and reminds me why I got it in the first place.

I came from a Camaro 2.0T that I daily drove and autocrossed. You do get used to the visibility, but it's never good. Funny thing, the first time I sat in the BRZ I thought I was sitting really high up, but it was just that the belt line isn't absurdly high.

My experience with the Camaro was that it was all business. I had 305s on all 4 corners and the chassis is an amazing performer. The way it ate bumps at high cornering loads never stopped amazing me. That said, the new 86 is also a very good performer that doesn't take itself so seriously. It wants you to toss it around and is fun at 7/10ths whereas the Camaro only really shined at 10/10ths. Mine would have probably been more enjoyable on the street with the V8, but IMO speed gets boring once you get used to it, and it doesn't take long to get there.

"For DD and track"

I wouldn't say that.

While the Camaro is *faster* in many regards, I find the Mustangs more satisfying to drive, particularly the GT350.

I've had both as combination daily drivers and track cars.

The SS 1LE is one of the best packages out of the box you'll find - it literally needs nothing to hit track days, while also being pretty decent on the road. The size and visibility aren't great, but once you get used to it, it's not that bad. The interior is nice and the car is very comfortable in Touring mode - it might be my favorite road trip car I've had. As a track car, the Camaro is just sublime - it makes all the right noises and is incredibly easy to drive. The stock cooling, and even the brakes, are more than adequate for most track usage. As others have said, the biggest downside is the consumables. Plan on $1200+ for tires, and $700 or more for brake pads, and neither last very long.

Having recently moved back to the twin platform, I think the GR is probably the better balance of fun per dollar. The 86 is obviously slower, but with some minor modifications (sway bar, tires, brake pads, camber) it's great on track, and I've also enjoyed it more for street driving since you can actually drive it unlike the Camaro, where a second gear pull would get you to 80mph really quick.

The best way I can describe it is that I'm not having any less fun on track with the GR86 than I did with the Camaro, but I'm doing it a heck of a lot cheaper. In my case, I have no regrets.

This. I prefer the GT350-R to the Camaro.
Also, a helmet can fit through the window of a Mustang, unlike the Camaro. That is a clear safety shortcoming of the Chevy for track duty.

Acceleration never gets boring.

Thanks for sharing!

I wrote up a comparison of 1st gen 2013 frs to a 2018 camaro ss 1le a while ago. I imagine my opinion wouldn't change much if I drove the new models.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135226

That was my experience with my Camaro vs my 22 BRZ, except mine didn't have the sound since it was the 2.0T. My purposes when buying it were autox and sitting in traffic, so I went with the lightest Camaro. The 22 BRZ has closed the gap in performance from the first gen, but comparing it to the SS 1LE just isn't fair. The Camaro is clinical in what it does, but falls short of the twins in engagement. The speed you can carry in the Camaro over bumps is tremendous, but it only shines when you're at 10/10ths, which for 90% of driving isn't possible.

I've been finding myself caring less about outright pace and more about the engagement of the car, and I'd have a hard time finding a new car that beats the new twins. I already have an NA Miata, so the ND was off the table because then my most practical vehicle would be a Miata. Camaros and BRZs are impractical enough already.

i dont know. i sold my brz for a c6. then i supercharged it for like 560 whp. it got pretty boring pretty fast.

I've had an I-Pace, which does 60 in 4.2, and a MYLR boosted, which does 4.2 as well, both without even trying. Their top gear passing times, 30-50 and 50-70, are likely both far ahead of your supercharged C6. Dunno if yours was an auto or not. But I've not grown bored at all. I would like more, in fact. If the Model S Plaid weren't such a god damned boat, I'd get one in a flash. Looking forward to an i4 M50. Acceleration is a hell of a lot of fun, especially coming out of a corner.

Throwing in my 2 cents here;
But I love the LT1/SS Camaros and I hope you all do too and get a chance to drive it.

They're such a blast to drive and actually handle as good if not better than what we have. If you track your car the price of the 1LE package is a great deal you also can't beat Chevy's warranty, apparently if you blow your engine at the track they'll replace your engine according to Throttle House.

If you daily drive a Camaro I hope you have a lot of open roads with little traffic to enjoy it; The alpha chassis is no joke and the sound and feel of the V8 is honestly unbeatable. Since you said it's a weekend/occasional daily definitely consider it if you're able to.
Either way you're gonna have fun in both of these cars I just believe that you're gonna have more fun in the twins.

Not sure how it is on tracks that are larger than ours, but if you plan to drive fast the tyre and brake burn rate (fuel aswell) on a 1800kg car with some power gets petty wild, serious wallet drain :)

It's true, I personally know someone that blew up their Camaro (oiling issue) and Chevy replaced the motor under warranty. They went to the dealership straight from the track. Car still had the numbers on the side and helmet in the passenger seat.

They're two very different cars that offer different kinds of fun. The 86 chassis is very tossable and an inherently fun chassis. The Camaro is fun because it's such an impressive chassis for performance. I consider the 86 to be more fun, but that's also the style of car I'm finding I like more.

EV acceleration seems boring to me. There’s isn’t any drama or theatrics.

A naked model isn't enough. You'd rather have an ugly woman in lace?
Wagyu beef isn't enough. You'd rather have some pink slime with A1?
Cashmere isn't enough. You'd rather have polyester with sequins?

Hire a guy to make motorboat noises while you drive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHQ_aTjXObs

BTW, Ohlins RT on a Model Y? Magnific.

It gets old pretty quickly, and its not very useful in the real world either. For a fun street car acceleration is quiet low on the list for me.

For me, it's more like watching a movie without the cinematic soundtrack. I'd rather have it with the cinematic soundtrack.

One of the cars I cross shopped was Tesla Model 3 Performance. The acceleration was exciting at first, but it got boring pretty quickly. Build quality wasn't great, suspension sucked, was loud on highway, and the sound system was subpar. It failed as a fun car and as a luxury car. Once EV can do both, I'd love to consider again.

I'd rather watch a great movie without a soundtrack than a mediocre movie with a great soundtrack. Oh sure, there are virtuoso car soundtracks, but the twins sound like crap.

Teslas have their flaws for sure. I know them well. Their biggest flaw is garbage suspension. The current sound systems are quite good, though.

Sound is the least interesting part of cars, unless it's what's playing on the stereo.

Agree they sound like crap. That's what made me hesitate with the GR86. I think an electric GR86 would be better in almost every way. More power, finally a decent front suspension, and better weight distribution. Just need battery energy density to improve.

I heard someone recently compare Teslas to a comedian that only has one joke to tell. But it's the greatest joke you've ever heard. The first time you experience it (maximum acceleration or the joke) it is fantastic. Each subsequent time it isn't as good, and the rate at which the experience deteriorates is really fast. After a few times it's just not special anymore.
Contrast that with a well-balanced chassis or someone with outstanding quick wit. That can be enjoyed for many years, and once in a while something new reveals itself that makes you smile through renewed appreciation.

This is all just fanboying. There are many things to like about a car, and acceleration is a big fucking deal. I enjoy blasting out of corners. I enjoy getting home quickly. I enjoy passing slow vehicles in a flash. I enjoy beating the red light again and again. I enjoy the g forces and the smoothness of it all.

When the i4 M50 comes, it'll be a hell of a comparison. I'll invite someone with a Taycan Turbo and someone with a Plaid over so we can all compare experiences. Should be fun.

Not a Star Wars fan then?

I think we’re all just wired differently. We like what we like. I guess this can be called fanboying.

I don’t value street acceleration that much. It’s nothing compared to the thrill of switching to brake as late as possible before a turn on track. If you’re used to track days, then 1g of acceleration should feel normal. Even a Plaid can’t sustain that.

As long as the acceleration is enough to not get in my way, I’ll prioritize other aspects of the driving experience. I would argue that previous gen 86 was not enough. It was embarrassing to see Miatas pointing me by and the drivers checks back a few seconds later wondering why I didn’t pass yet.

I actually had more fun driving the Mini Cooper SE (6s 0-60) than Model 3 Performance (3.2s 0-60). It was inferior in every performance metric. But the agility and character of the Mini more than made up for it. Maybe it’s not that I don’t like EV acceleration, but that current gen EV are designed like appliance. I just don’t see the fun in it (yet).

FWIW, I don't think the person I heard making that analogy owns an 86.
Also, people that value characteristics of a car differently than you doesn't mean they are fanboys. It means they simply have different priorities or preferences.
But hey...it's easier to just put people in a box, dismiss them, and move on, isn't it?
I've driven many cars across a massive price range. I always appreciate the smaller, lighter cars more than the heavier cars regardless of the make. In fact, if I had to rank my favorite car brands, Subaru would be near the bottom of the list.

I don't think he get's the irony of totally fanboying about his pick in cars while using the term as a demi insult with others.

Yeah, it's fanboying to want fast, low COG, well-handling, efficient, comfortable cars.

Much better to like them loud, because noise is vital.

I'm sure horse fanboys, when looking at those newfangled cars, complained about how much they missed the clip clop of hooves, the neighing, and the constant shoveling of shit.

Well, fanboy of really good steering feel(very important, good steering is fun at all speeds), lightweight cars, good chassis balance, heel toeing manual transmissions etc. I dont care what badge is on the bonnet, and its not super important how much power is under there, as long as it have at least some character. My first daily driver weighted just slightly more than a tesla 100kwh battery pack, which is a bit funny :) Though i dont slam the fanboy sticker on people who enjoy drag racing, show cars, steam trains or collecting stamps, everyone enjoys different things in life.

What makes you think they would give it a better suspension?

And you'd seriously sacrifice engine sounds, LIGHT WEIGHT, and shifting gears for fractionally better weight distribution? It's not like the standard GR86 has the weight distribution of an Audi. :bs:

Basically dismissing everything that makes this car stand out from the crowd.:sigh: