Code p0441
 

hey guys, i have had this code for awhile and this last weekend i changed the purge solenoid, gas cap and checked my lines and after driving it again for a little bit, same code. P0441. Im actually lost on what else to do with it. Maybe an electrical short? im not sure but this weekend im gonna check all my lines again and spray water on them to see if maybe one is cracked but im pretty sure those are all good. Does anyone have any suggestions on what else it could be? car is not tuned, completely stock engine and stock ECU. any ideas/help would be much appreciated. Thanks again.

2013 BRZ
Jynx

Explain what the PCV valve has to do with the EVAP.

literally what i was thinking. I'm pretty sure that's not connected to the evap system


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Couple of questions:
Is the car modified?
Are you the original owner?

This is definitely an Evap system code, if you answered "Yes" to either of the questions above check the ECM wiring first. ECM is located behind the glove box against the passenger side A pillar. Look for loose wires in the ECM harness. I've seen previously modified cars that had taps into the harness connectors that were either shorted out, or loose that caused this code.

If the ECM wiring is fine check the following components as each can cause the code:
• Purge VSV (This is located under the intake manifold on the driver's side, it is blue & black, make sure the connector is plugged in securely and the wires are good, check that both purge lines are connected securely.
• Purge lines (These are the lines connected to the VSV, make sure they are connected securely on both ends and have no leaks or cuts).
• Connector/Wiring harness (Purge VSV - ECM) (As mentioned previously, check these harnesses & connections)
• Leakage from the EVAP system (may need to have this taken to a shop to perform a smoke test on the EVAP system to make sure there are no leaks.)
• ECM Issue (worst case, needs an ECM)

Oh it definitely doesn't have anything to do with it. I thought I was replying to someone about a rough idle/vacuum leak.

just a widebody kit and slammed. no engine mods and I'm not so it kinda sucks but i had another mechanic look at it and the computer is still saying it won't close, its just stuck open which i don't understand. there is a brand new purge valve in there and it's still getting stuck. i tried looking for shorts and i didn't see anything so I'm completely lost at this point. I'll look at the ECM and see if anything is lose. thanks for the help :(


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just checked ECM. nothing is hanging off it or unplugged etc. looks all normal and definitely has never been touched.


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Are you absolutely sure that you don't have a vacuum leak?

people don't even bother to look because they watch the purge valve on the computer and say its not closing. its just constantly open so they don't bother which absolutely pisses me off because they think I'm an idiot and I'm not. if i had the damn tools id do it myself


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Can you bench test the purge valve by blowing (or sucking if you're feeling kinky) through it with and then with out current applied to the terminals? Being an electronics noob, I don't know how the car's ecm "knows" whether the valve is open or closed. Does it assume it's open when current is applied or does it monitor changes in vacuum.

i did that with new and old one. both where closed with no power and open with power. ECM could be fucked but it's stock. i also get a u0155 code if i use cruise control so maybe a bad ecu? im not really sure


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Do you have anything plugged into the obd2 port? Gotta ask.


Also, being slammed, unless you have bags, you're shaking the piss out of everything way more than stock. Might be onto something with the connector/short thing. Maybe.

no sir, never have never will. still get u0155. i literally have like the 2 IMPOSSIBLE codes [emoji52]


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It is weird. Have you tried rebooting (or whatever it's called) the ECU by disconnecting the battery and stepping on the brake for a couple seconds? Did your battery voltage drop just before it started happening?

i haven't tried that, i didn't even know that existed lol. how do u do that? is there a guide or do u literally just unplug the battery completely and step on the brake a few times? no voltage has always stay steady at 12.9 which i know is a little high.

if you mean just unplugging the battery yes, i have to anyways to get rid of the engine light/limp mode but i dont get what u mean by the brake.

Oh, gotcha. The brake press is just to make sure the power supply is completely drained. It's a thing.


I just looked at the wiring diagram and I see that the only way for the purge valve to be stuck open is for a short in the wire between it and the ecu, the ecu to be telling it to open for some reason, or for that control transistor (mosfet, whatever) to be shorted.

but see i would not know where to even start and the fact that i also get u0155 for using my cruise control makes me wonder just wonder if maybe the ecu is fucked/trashed. im not the original owner but i dont think it has been tuned or anything like that.

It's possible. I wouldn't start with that unless I had money to blow. Even then, I think there's a whole thing to pairing the ecu to the car. Are you up for that?

not really but i just want to know what it is and where to honestly start ya know

do u think if there wasn't enough pressure in the lines that the ecu would keep the valve open until there was and then it would tell it to close? i wonder if there isn't enough and the computer doesn't like that and it tries to keep it open. is that possible or is that a dumb thought?

It's a good thought, but the service manual does say something about a time threshold for the the evap leakdown test. Read up on it and you'll know as much as I do about the logic. I would think it times out and gives up

so it wouldn't be possible or would it and it's just timing out? ive had a lot of people say it could be the gas pump rubber seal


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That's the first thing to rule out. I think you know what needs to happen. Just have to start testing.

is there a fuel tank pressure sensor in this car?


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There's a link to the service manuals in my sig line.

yes. i also had a shop smoke test it for leaks and nothing was leaking. only thing that was weird was when they hooked it up to obd2 reader the shop got a christmas tree so maybe ecu issue?

100% it has been smoked tested.

Code p0441
 

well if anyone is still following this, P0441 is a bullshit code and it was actually the leak detection pump valve assembly. has nothing to do with the purge valve, lines, or gas cap. The whole rear subframe is being dropped tomorrow to even get to it. price to fix is about 1300.


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What exactly is being repaired/replaced?

Leak detection pump valve assembly. also referred to as the canister pump module. it is located right next to the charcoal canister.


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It has everything to do with the purge valve, lines and cap! It is the device that makes sure all those things are working right and an integral part of the system.

wrong. wasn't the purge valve. everyone tried to tell me it was the one under the intake. the one in the back is not a "purge valve"


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Doesn't change that the test pump is a part of the whole system no matter where the purge valve is located.

"Everyone..." You didn't look at the service manual at all, did you?

oh i did for 3 days straight. fought 3 dealerships on it and one was finally smart enough. only took a year.


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lol... that SUCKS!

at the moment the car is looking good but they are gonna keep testing it to make sure that this is actually it.

haha sike, that did not fix it.

Did they replace everything? Pump, module, canister? While it was disassembled, did they smoke or pressure test all of the lines?