Paint Protection
 

I pick up my GR86 tomorrow morning. Have any of you applied PPF or Ceramic coating? If so, what do you recommend? Thanks.

I will never get a new car without ceramic again.

Get your car PPF to save it from rock chips and buy and coat it with CQuartz UK 3.0 + Gliss. You can do it yourself and save some $$$ and learn a new skill.
Protected and easy to clean.

That Hakone green must look great in person when clean with ceramic coating!

It glows.

Ask your dealer for a quote on PPF.
I got my 2017 done prior to taking delivery. Price ended up being priced better after calling around for quotes.

Ceramic is nice, makes washing a lot easier. Carpro, optimum are popular. DIY is possible with consumer grade coatings if you are handy with a polisher.

Xpel PPF then Gtechniq Crystal Serum Ultra with Exo topper.
Get it done at an accredited detailer. Buy once cry once.

Ceramic coating is essentially chemical protection, PPF is physical protection. You can decontaminate your car easily without ceramic coating but you can't really protect your car 100% from rock chips etc without PPF.

Or do both. Ceramic coating like Cquartz UK3.0 is extremely easy to DIY apply, and can go on top of PPF. I would never pay what guys are charging for ceramic coatings, it's nuts. At minimum get your front bumper PFF'd because it's going to look like the surface of the moon in 5 years if my car is a good example

Did you do it yourself or have it done?

Got it thrown in the deal when I bought the car. The dealership has their own facility that does it.
Probably no reason you couldn't do it yourself but it is the sort of thing I personally leave up to the experts.

Let's be clear (no pun intended) in that ceramic is in no way, shape, or form a protective coating. The name is deceiving in that it implies it leaves some sort of hard coating. It doesn't. What it does do is penetrate the small spaces in the paint at a molecular level to make the surface super slick and shiny. The only "protection" it offers is that things don't stick as easy.

The PFF on the bumper will help with the very tiny bits that hit it but anything much bigger just tears it and chips the paint anyway. After a few thousand miles the PFF can actually look worse than the paint! And if worried about cost I wouldn't pay anybody to do that anymore than apply ceramic since it is just as "easy" to apply as ceramic and just as expensive.

With what it costs to do a bumper I will just get it resprayed every couple of years when it get's too nasty.

Unless the dealer subs it out to an accredited installer, do not use the dealer. The nightmares that show up at detailers from dealerships are unfathomable.

Ceramic coatings are many times harder than the clear coat of your paint. It is in fact a coating, and it does increase the harness.

My car has had its cermaic coating for about 7years now, and it still works. However, as stated above it doesn't stop stone chips.. I have also used PFF in the past (not on the same car), it worked pretty well. I trust that PFF has progressed, new systems are a lot more advanced and again tempting (only to stop stone chips)..

It offers zero protection form swirl marks, impact, or any other physical contact. It is not a barrier such as wax or film.

3m all around with mudflap it's the way to go , In quebec is 2,5 to 3k to do a complete car , put this amount on the car and take a check from the dealer go to your best shop and that it

Depending on what you’re swirling with, it does in fact offer protection from swirl marks. It is a barrier, many MANY times harder than wax.

You may want to look beyond the manufacturer claims.

Lol.
What's the harness of Toyota's clear coat? What's the hardness of your coating?

There's a ton of BS out there with ceramic coating but it DOES offer a very thin layer of protection, if you've looked at stuff that has been coated with a microscope. I'm not at all saying it helps against rocks or impacts but it does form a layer over your paint to HELP prevent etching from bird shit etc.

Disagree about PPF looking worse than paint after a few thousand miles, maybe it was true years ago but the modern stuff is incredible. As long as you stick with the good stuff like 3m and xpel.

And i dont know where you get the idea that applying PPF is the same job in terms of difficulty as applying ceramic coating. If you can wax a car you can apply ceramic coating, can't say the same for PPF, that stuff is a pain in the ass. Ceramic coating is piss easy and there's a lot of pros out there sending their kids to college off this stuff (all the more power to them).

I agree that PPF coatings have come a long way in the recent years. I had used it back in 2004 on my Lotus Exige. As for ceramic coating, my BRZeee was treated to a coating about 7years ago, it was a drawn out affair, something that I wouldn't do myself.. not having the patience or the right tools to correct paint etc..

I suppose if you were torn between the two, why not start with the PPF and then switch to ceramic if the PPF fails...

PPF is a film not a coating (typo?)

The 3m stuff i had put on my wife's CX5 is a 10 year warranty against lifting and yellowing, any 3m approved shop takes care of it.

Ceramic you're going to get 1-3 years, maybe more if you garage your car all the time and don't drive in bad conditions and take very good care of the car. Some coatings will claim 5 years or more, but in the fine print it requires topping the coating with a spray sealant, so at that point you don't even know what's causing water to bead off your paint.. the sealant or the coating.

I have posted this a couple of times now. It's the story of my 2018 CBP tS getting coated. I'm very happy with the results. Although full disclosure, the car lives in the garage. It has less than 17k (kilometers) and only a couple hundred of those on bad roads or in weather. So take my example as a best case.

My main thing was having a professional do the paint prep. I feel it makes the most of which ever product you end up with.
Because I did drive the car in salt this past winter I will pay the $250 to have him go over the entire car and redo the top coat. It'll still be less than the cost of a full body wrap would have been.
I think there are three posts with pics on this page starting here:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...ic#post3222082

My ceramic has a 9 year warranty. It’s 5 years old and still does exactly what it should, 200,000kms of daily Canada driving later.

Ceramic coating just fills the micro pits of the clear coat preventing contaminants from getting lodged into these gaps which also allows water to easily bead off vs getting trapped into the imperfect surface. It essentially makes your top coat "smoother" but really offers minimal to no physical protection. No matter how many layers of ceramic coating you put on it is nanometers thick unlike wax which is a thick soft coat.

PPF is the better way to offer a bit of physical protection to the paint but depending on the film you get, it's not something that can be left on forever and needs to be removed with new film reapplied after an x amount of years. I believe most films say to not leave on for longer than 5-10 years. Not that the film goes bad, but it's the duration companies are willing to guarantee safe removal of the adhesive film from the paint, film left on for longer than the recommended age has the risk of damaging the paint upon removal.

If i were to do it again, I would ppf the entire vehicle followed by ceramic coat. I currently have full front with the entire car ceramic coated and there are less swirls on the filmed areas vs the ceramic coated clear coat. PPF tend to be self healing for minor scuffs and scratches therefore swirls disappear whereas ceramic coating be more easily physically marred.

^ The statement about wax being a thicker coat than ceramic intrigues me, have never heard that. Source?

I don't understand half of these posts. PPF and ceramic coating are two entirely different things that serve two entirely different purposes.

PPF's main (sole?) purpose is to protect against rock chips, scrapes, etc.
Ceramic's main (sole?) purpose is to bond with/on top of the clear coat to provide a smoother surface which thereby has a lower coefficient of friction meaning that dirt/bird poo/rain (with dirt inside) don't stick as easily.

Is this really that difficult to understand?

Exactly. Both will protect your car, but in different ways and from different things.

Both have roughly the same skillset requirement for paint correction before application. PPF requires an entirely different and significantly higher skillset to apply at that point.

Ceramic may not be scratch-proof, but it is (to varying degrees) more scratch-resistant than clearcoat. It's like a watch face. A mineral crystal watch face is certainly not scratch-proof, but it's harder to scratch than plastic. Sapphire crystal faces are harder yet to scratch, but as a co-worker of mine discovered (much to his displeasure) it's still possible to scratch the face of a $5,000 watch.

So there is some middle ground - at least theoretically - where a ceramic coated car would shrug off a potential scratch unscathed, while an uncoated car would get scratched.

Ceramic coatings are also more resistant to pollutants and such. Again, not impervious, but better than your paint alone.


Still, the primary function is to create a deeper shine that lasts longer than wax. The protective qualities, however limited, are a secondary benefit.


Personally, if I were to go PPF I'd probably skip straight to vinyl wrap. I think the car should've been offered in British Racing Green anyway. But for budgetary reasons I'm going to DIY a paint correction and ceramic coat and just enjoy the still-very-nice Trueno Blue.

I have never seen a ceramic offer more scratch protection. My friend who is a opti-coat installer will also attest to this.
Coating will shed and resist dirt and contamination from sticking to the paint. An easier car to clean = a car you are less likely to scratch.

Majority of pro grade ceramic coatings that offer longer warranties require yearly maintenance return visits.
Sio2 sits on top of the paint and then layers are added to get the desired amount of durability. The layers will wear over time, and maintenance will help boost the layers to keep the coating alive.

Then there are brands like optimum who use a slightly different formula for their pro line opti-coat which is SIC based, not Sio2. Their compound actually bonds with your clear coat. In theory it is a lifetime coating but like anything the hydrophobics are dictated by wash maintenance.
You can actually treat the coating like paint, and use clay and iron removers on it which is something you wouldn't do with majority of coatings on the market.

For a daily I don't see as much value in a long term coating if you care about removing scratches, nicks etc as the car ages. Unless you are happy to pay for panels to be recoated as needed.

The 3M PPF has held up great overall on my car, but it is still a wear item. It has seen 100k km/4Y abuse with winters. The bumper is the area that gets hammered the most.
My hood, fender and mirror caps film is still in great condition, the bumper needs to be redone, or removed.

You're shopping the wrong coatings. Mine is far harder than clear coat. My 9 year warranty has no yearly maintenance. I use fallout remover every spring because I don't hand wash very much in the winter. Ceramic coat your PPF.

You keep saying that, but I don't think you have a clue what you are talking about. And even if you are correct, and you aren't, what makes you think that being "harder" equates to a resistance to scratching?? In many cases, it is the opposite.

It is my understanding (and pretty much everybody but you on this thread) that ceramics bond with the clear coat essentially filling in small gaps in the clearcoat making the surface smoother. A smoother surface has a lower coefficient of friction meaning that dirt, water, etc. all shed from the surface easier than a less-smooth surface.

I am really interested in hearing what this harder ceramic coating that adds a barrier and has a 9 year warranty without maintenance is!

I did coat the PPF. Bumper film is still trashed from road debris.

Biggest snake oil myth in coating industry is the use of the pencil scale. Most of those tests aren't done on cars, they apply the coating to flat painted steel for testing. Car panels are made of various materials and will react differently..

I'm surprised to hear you say "wrong brands" after I mentioned opti-coat, since I believe them to be one of the better pro grade coating options in the market. One of the more unique too.

Opti-coat uses SIC as a result of a chemical reaction vs Sio2 coatings which use Sio2 suspended inside a resin which bonds to the surface.
Main difference being Sio2 coatings use layers to offer longer warranties, along with different resin formulas. The resin which holds Sio2 will wear off. Opti-coats formula the SIC is formed as a chemical reaction that bonds to the paint, there is no resin that wears off. To wear that coating you need to wear off the SIC layer that bonded with the paint.

No matter the coating you need to perform some kind of maintenance to keep the hydrophobics up. Whether or not the installer requires it for the warranty varies.

I wouldn’t look at opticoat.
Gtechniq and Modesta. Nothing else compares.

anyone know much about graphene? was reading some articles talking about how graphene is the successor to ceramic coatings being even more longer lasting?

Keep it in your vaxxxine.
https://youtu.be/sbfr35YkDzk

LOL. "What makes you think the harder things get, the more resistant to scratches they are?" Because that's how hardness works.
But yeah, it's me that doesn't know what they're talking about...
https://www.pfonline.com/articles/pa...ch-resistance-

Gtechniq Crystal Serum Ultra.

You are a freakin’ idiot. You didn’t even read the article you quoted you toolbox. It said exactly what I said.

PPF is totally worth it! And I don't know what conditions people are driving in to get theirs torn up, because I have previously used it for years and never encountered any issues with damage. And I'm a freaking magnet for road debris (even had to get my roof repainted once from paint chips after a semi [not even in my lane!] ran over a sheet of dry wall, making it explode). My father recently had the PPF replaced on his S2000 (was roughly 15 years old and yellowing) and it had no tears/holes in it.