Engine rattle, spun bearing? Now wont start
 

I have a 2013 FRS with 60K miles on it, no mods, OFT tune only. Today driving home I was doing some spirited driving got the RPMS up but not for long and afterwards my car started to make a rattling noise. I didnt think too much of it, thought maybe a bolt came loose on some trim. So I drove it trying to get home maybe 5 miles or less, the rattling seemed to not get worse but I started noticing some power loss on acceleration. Then I came to a stop sign and the engine cut off, with the whole dash lighting up. Haven't been able to start the car since, the engine cranks but wont start. The error codes i got were P000A,P000B,P000C,P00D,P1603,P1604

Any thoughts? Help? I was researching and it sounded similar to a spun bearing/rod knock. Is it possible to happen that quick? Will the car not start at all if the bearing spun? I didn't have any prior noises or issues

Yes sounds like it

The first 4 codes are all cam position related so could be a sensor but a spun bearing could also trigger those codes.
The last two codes are starting issues so could be anything.

Was the engine running rough before it cut off?

Not really, was just making a bad rattling or tapping sound that seemed to increase with the Rpm. Might have been a little sluggish/hesitant on acceleration but nothing drastic

Sounds like a valve issue

Mine lost power before the rockers came out. Wasn't misfiring at first.

I uploaded some photos of the oil, oil pan, and pickup. Lots of small metal flakes nothing large except for silicone in the pickup. Is this pretty normal or another sign of failure? Im going to remove the timing cover tomorrow see if anything in there looks broken

New motor comin up.

Did have the recall done?

No recall done, didn't need it according to Toyota. Said that it was a late 2013 model and valve spring issue was resolved by then

All that silicone on the factory motor, wow. Think I've seen a failure thread from a late '13-early '14 model, spun rod probably from the broken-off gasket material. Might have been a bad run on some of these motors.

Really seems like a greater failure point than any other thing on these engines (besides spitting rockers out) and surprised Toyota doesn't recognize it and start pulling engines.

There were at least 20 failures just like that well before the recall ever happened. They sort of got overshadowed by the recall and people either never heard of them or forgot. Most were very early ones but a couple of others were later 13s. Think there was only one 14+ though.
Unfortunately there is no such thing as the "perfect" manufacturing process and my guess is that the robot that initially applied the sealant screwed up just as bad as some of the techs did later.

They had to have known about it but odds are it was easier (cheaper) for them to just let the few that may have had the issue through the system.

During your spirited driving did you happen to do a long curve? The majority of the per recall failures happened shortly after the driver entered a highway from a curving ramp. My theory was always that it was a combination of the silicone and the prolonged turn.

Bet you a beer it is your number 4 rod bearing. It was almost always the number 4 rod bearing.

Nope just nice stretch of freeway no curves. I kinda had some access to rod 1 and 4 with the oil pan off didn't notice any play I'll have to give it another look.

I seem remember someone telling me that you can lightly tap the rod caps with a small hammer to determine if there is too much clearance. A loose one will sound different that the others. Might work.

Isn’t it 2 and 3 that share the same oil passage on the crank? Have you ever done a used oil analysis prior to this happening? There’s enough space in the upper oil pan for a screw driver to fit it to tap in the rod caps. Did that on mine when I found rtv in my oil filter.

You see the “recall after j02 failure thread” that has similar pics and situations. Your oil pans looks glittery or is that just the light?

After some tinkering this morning I don't think I wanna invest my time into this project. Any ideas what I should do to maximize my money? How much do you all think I can sell the car for as is? How much do you think a shop would charge to do the repairs? I only bought the car for 8k in 2019.

Well getting it that cheap I’d sell it for about a 4K loss. You’ll spend between 5k and 8k to fix it.

You got is really cheap is there a reason for that? Maybe the previous owner thrashed it?

It had an accident on record, no structural damage only body. I think mainly it was because it was a 2013 model which people were avoiding. Also it was literally a week before covid shut shut down and dealers were hurting for sales

Well since it was in an accident I’d sell it.

So I'm trying to price the parts I need to rebuild does anybody know if it would be safe to reuse the AVCS engine cam sprockets? I was reading that in the EJ style motor they can be taken apart and cleaned but not on the FA. I'm concerned that there may be bearing material in there if I rebuild. Also timing chains, tensioners, and guides... ok to reuse? I will replace if necessary, just trying to keep the cost down where possible.

Anything oil touched that can't be cleaned needs to be replaced. Oil coolers especially.

They can be completely disassembled and cleaned. The only slightly challenging part is the internal retaining clip for the control valve (plunger)

#3 is the most common. Both 2 and 3 are fed by the same main, 1 and 4 have their own.

In the post recall failures yes. The pre recall failures were predominantly 4 which is the rearmost.
I have always maintained that it was sealant in the oil passages post filter caused by a faulty assembly process. This of course would be slightly different from the blocked pickup tube of the post recall.

More or less a "same but different" scenario.

Did you ever pull it apart enough to find exactly how serious the damage is? Hard to guess on what needs to be changed without knowing how bad it really is.

Flakes in the oil no Bueno. Its done sadly.

Just pricing for worst case scenario just to get an idea. I will be pulling it apart before ordering new parts.

With that degree of metalflake in the oil, I'd presume the worst. You can pick up a new short block for around $1800, then have the rest of the parts thoroughly cleaned replacing those that are shaky. Given how little money you currently have in the car, I'd personally lean toward selling it and buying a new one. However, if cash was really tight or I was looking for a project I'd go the short (or maybe even a built block) route.

Money isn't a huge deal just don't want to sink a ton of money into it, I use it just as a DD. I'd rather rebuild for 3-4k and hope to get to 200k miles before buying a 20k new car just to put work miles on it. Just seems like the better financial choice to rebuild... Assuming the repair lasts

I'm not sure how realistic a 200k longevity is, but I understand. TommyW and others on here know a lot more of the ins and outs of rebuilding these than I do. But if I were to tackle a rebuild I'd go the factory short block route. Good luck.

A lot will depend on your ability to do the work yourself. If you’re confident you can do it on your own and have a good outcome then more power to you. If not you’re looking at a lot of future issues. Even with a dealer or Subie shop there is no guarantee. Dealer ruined mine and and indy shop ruined my stepsons WRX. I was lucky to have an FA 20 guru do mine after the recall fiasco

I'm feel confident, going to take my time with it. My friend that is going to help has experience with engine repair not Subaru motors but his knowledge will be useful. I also have a background in aerospace manufacturing so I understand the importance of fitment and tolerances and have access to all the tools needed. My biggest worry about this whole project is the RTV on everything. I've been reading the recall instructions up and down and researching before getting into it. Is it safe to say if I follow the RTV instructions perfectly I'll be ok, Or should I error on the side of less is more?

Les can be more. Too many techs think more is more hence the issues. Removing the old sealant is just as important as applying the new. Remove it and then clean everything again. There are detailed instructions on the sealant application. The sealant removal and application takes A LONG TIME so don't rush it. The dealer techs aren't allowed enough time hence the issues. Good luck I hope all goes well.

Thanks, fingers crossed.

Less is more as long as the philosophy behind the instructions is understood. Thorough degreasing prior to application is key.

@NoHaveMSG, can you share pics of the alignment pins you made for the timing cover here? That was genius.

Engine rattle, spun bearing? Now wont start
 

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U da man

I haz my moments.

The cardboard cutout for keeping track of the 38 timing cover bolts was cool too.