1st gen 86 vs. Porsche 944
 

Just like the title says. Not a 944 S or Turbo, just the standard 2.5 liter, 160 bhp model. If it matters, it'd be a pre-facelift 944 (early 1985), with the early interior/dash. Track potential as well as DD. Low miles. Discuss amongst yourselves...I gots my reasons. :)

(The '86 would be a '13 FR-S)

On track, you can find prepped 944s for relatively cheap. Daily driver? LOL!

I want a 944 so bad. The prices ballooned right when they caught my eye.

Depends what you call cheap. I've got a friend trying to sell me a 100% stock (with Fuchs) 30K mile '85 for mid teens. Total creampuff..just had belts, water pump and all other services done. Just trying to decide if it'd be a reasonable replacement for my FRS or not...

I'd prefer the post face lift model. Interior doesn't look like it was designed in the 70s by VW. Honestly the overall performance is probably a draw but I'd be willing to bet everything is better on the FRS. Steering, shifting, speed, basic comfort.

Unless you're a mechanic of intermediate ability I wouldn't recommend the Porsche.

A "classic" car is not going to be a great daily driver. The only advantage is cachet with 944 nerds, who are all dudes.

A pre-facelift 944 was my dream car as a kid. The 1st gen 86/BRZ is a modern replacement with a bit worse front to rear weight ratio (non transaxle). I would buy the 944 only if I wanted to have a classic car.

I made a similar move. I sold my 2020 86 and got a 1992 Nissan 240sx with a stock 155hp KA24DE in a very good condition. And I never looked back! I enjoy the 240 way more. The steering, shifting and overall feel is better. And it is a better daily driver because the engine although having less horsepower has a better torque curve, so it is pleasant to drive at speed limits and the car is smooth instead of being jerky. I haven't taken it to a track yet, just waiting to refresh the brakes and put some coilovers, but I'm constantly taking it to twisty roads and it feels amazing.

I guess the Porsche 944 would feel in a same way nicer than the BRZ/FRS/86.

I used to prefer the facelifted interior, but the styling of the original has aged better than I thought it would, and I kind of like it now. It's more interesting than the facelift one, for lack of a better word. The FRS shifter feel has never been terribly impressive for a rwd car. The steering is very nice, but the 944 is no slouch in that department either... The idea of manual windows and mirrors, simple radio, etc are also quite appealing to me.

Turning wrenches is not an issue for me. lol

I've had several daily drivers that were otherwise referred to as classics. I enjoy a bare bones car, especially one with some character. And as far as cachet with '944 dudes', take a look around this place...it's a sword fest in here. I'm 54...the days of women being interested in what I drive are way behind me.

price new lifters on an 8V and you will poop your pants a little))

Yeah, I'm familiar with the P tax...I've done a fair amount of work on air cooleds. It can take your breath away..

I actually wanted a 944 when I started the purchasing process that led to my 86. It went like:

-Let's get a 944. Those are what? 5 grand?
-Oh no, good ones are actually 10 grand
-Crap, even those ones aren't great. And you can get a Boxster with a flat-6 for that money
-Well, a really decent Boxster 2.5 is actually 15 grand
-Wait, I can get an 86 for a couple grand more
-> buys an 86.

Both are fun cars. It's tough to find a transaxle car that hasn't been modded/hacked.



I have about the same amount of monies in both.

Oohh no way ,after owning two 240sx (or actually 200sx in Europe with ca18det) ,i don't want to hear about them!Love the style and the easy to work platform.But it is a 30year old car ,a lot of parts need refreshing (bushes,engine parts, suspension,interior parts in some cases,cracked dash etc) ,the chassis is horrible compared to cars of its age or modern cars, suspension set up is not good from the factory but it has tones of potential,brakes are ok with minimum changes but not for hard use, throttle response is good, steering feel ain't good enough, shifting is good for such an old car but nothing like a 1992 miata, usually comes without lsd or with the viscous ,most of them are in bad condition,even stock is nothing great.

Overall 240sx are a great platform for tuners with tones of aftermarket parts and potential, they used to be cheap and that made them value for money too.They are not worth it unless you find one in decent shape and fair price and go for the vintage look but you are not looking the absolute performance.They are fun to drive too.But a newer chassis like the 86 is way ahead.Safer ,modern, better , aftermarket support like the 240sx.

The only thing i can relate about The 240sx is the turbo and the engine swaps ,if you are the guy who wants power!

(Just my opinion,what really matters is what car makes you feel better and if that is the 240sx then ok,i just can't with old platforms again).I do love to have them on a garage building them and enjoy driving them though.That is a different story..

Humm,,,,, 86 would be a better daily one would think,,,, but a low mile 944 would be sweet. I say have your cake and eat to to,,, take both!!!

I think the question I'm more interested in is what the comparative driving dynamics are like between the two. The only 944 I've driven was a heavily built Turbo S...track suspension, 4 puck clutch, big turbo, etc. I have no experience with the standard N/A version. Obviously the 944 makes less power, but it's also lighter than the FRS. And if power delivery is better than the FA20, it could be a wash, at least on the street. Everything I've heard and read indicates that throwing money at the motor to gain power is a waste. Performance improvement comes from going on a diet.

One of the things that really has my interest is just the Porsche design and build quality. When you shut the door, it sounds like a a bank vault closing it's door. Cliche, but true. The FRS door feels like a boiled lasagna noodle in comparison. Part of that is frameless, versus framed doors, but there's more than just that. Even my buddy's 50 year old 914 has a better feeling door than the FRS. The 944 is almost 40 years old, and feels more solid than the FT86. Not sure about the rest of the chassis, so that's kind of what I'm asking about... Hopefully there's some people who've owned or had extensive seat time in both who can shed some real info. I think the core question is: with relatively equivalent mods, which one would be a more rewarding driver and occasional track car? I really love my FRS, but the allure of a P-car is tempting for a whole bunch of reasons.

See, I think the natural response from almost anyone (myself included, normally) would be that the newer car would make a better DD. But is that really the case? The only real luxury I look for in a vehicle is air conditioning. I don't care about power windows/mirrors/steering (I actually prefer manual), and I rarely turn on the radio. They're both 2+2s, although the FT86 appears to have more rear passenger room. But it's a wash up front, and I'm not a big guy anyway. Rear visibility is MUCH better in the 944 because of the glass hatch. 944 has a shorter wheelbase, better weight distribution, and are almost identical in every other external dimension. The Porsche does take a decent hit in fuel economy...

Lol...as much as I'd love to, 1) I don't have the room, as my daughter is getting her license in the spring and that means another car in the driveway, and 2) it makes no sense to have the FRS AND the 944...both cars are essentially in the same category... A second car for me would need to be something radically different to justify having both....pickup truck, station wagon, etc..

You certainly have a point. My thought is a creampuff 35 year old car,,, is still a 35 year old car. There would be in my opinion more maintenance required and of course the previously mentioned the P-car tax as well. If you do a lot of daily driving it may be an issue. All that aside,, still would be a cool car,, cant tell you the last time I saw one,,, even a crappy,, on on the street.

Do you have any pictures of the car to share??

I'll have to take some...I might be at the seller's place tomorrow, in fact. I'll post a few up when I see it next.

Been around front engined porsches since 2003, and still having one :)

There's a massive difference between the older and newer interior, the newer looks 90s bland, and the cars are a fair bit heavier, but do feel much better built, have much improved HVAC. The older flimsy interior is the one i prefer since it looks 70s cool and is more lightweight, and the early cars feel more raw to drive. The mechanics are fairly robust, and they can be excellent track or all round cars. The issue with using one as a daily driver is finding one that is in very good condition, and one that has been regularly used aswell. Otherwise it could get annoying. The s2s for example are probably the best for daily driving, i know many people who did that a couple of years ago. But i would probably prefer my GT86, even though a late 944 is more comfortable due to the rubbish oem damper setup in the 86. You can tune a 944 just like any other engine, head port, cam and chip is classic tweaks, even though the us cars will be hampered by the lack of compression.

I still have my 924 turbo after 15 years of ownership, much faster and much more raw to drive than my 86, my favorite among the transaxle cars, wouldn't daily it though :)

Btw, different examples will feel very different to each other, since dampers, bushings, tyres, alignment etc could be old and sloppy, track day ish or just new and fresh. So they can range from super sharp to very sloppy :)

Keep us updated and post some pictures too. I am a big fan of these cars. I have a Germany history book for them too ...


https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....4,203,200_.jpg

not the lines of a 944 but a modern MAF engine. 93 and later use R134.


kinda heavy so more of a grand touring car.



the last VIN number of 92 before Porsche adopted Toyotas 'just in time' manufacturing ideology.



from the last trip to the dragon...

I had a 944 Turbo S for years and loved it. Great little sports car. It's definitely roomier than the Toyobaru (for front seat passengers) and the hatch makes it WAY more practical. I once fit two 42 inch flatscreens in their original packaging, two big boxes of liquor, and a passenger while we were Christmas shopping. It's the only car I've ever driven where there was still room to move the driver's seat back after being adjusted to fit my 6'5", 240lb frame (I'm trying to shed some of those pounds, but my wife just learned how to make pizza from scratch so that's probably not happening anytime soon). The huge fuel tank was awesome, I once drove from Amarillo, TX to Joplin, MO (~500 miles) on a single tank just to see if it would make it.

Being a Turbo S, it had all the bells and whistles including factory Koni yellow shocks, adjustable ride height, big 928S4 brakes, and even automatic climate control. It was quite fast with just a chip and exhaust, and there's decent aftermarket support despite it's age. Cruising at triple digit speeds was effortless, though I don't know if the base model feels as planted as the heavier Turbo S with wider rubber.

That said, I'm quickly falling in love with my new (to me) '14 FRS. The FRS feels smaller, which I like despite the fact that it's just at the limit of me fitting comfortably. The back seat is actually useable if there's a smallish person in the passenger seat (I don't even acknowledge the existence of the driver's side rear seat). It feels more more direct and livelier, probably just as a consequence of it's age compared to the 944. While I haven't done much with the FRS yet, some pre-purchase research shows that the FRS will be much cheaper to maintain and has great aftermarket support too.

944 pros:

Brand prestige (if that matters to you)
Front seat passenger space (by a pretty good margin)
Old school look and feel
Big fuel tank for long trips

944 cons:

Older, will need more maintenance
Porsche, so parts are expensive
Clutch replacement is expensive, and a lot of work
Timing belt is a ticking timebomb with a water pump that's begging to kill itself, said timing belt, and the rest of your difficult to replace engine.


Toyobaru pros:

More modern chassis
Better suspension layout
Newer, will be lower maintenance
Subaru/Toyota reliability and parts prices
Feels sharper/more responsive (subjective)
Cheaper/easier to upgrade
Almost useful back seats
Nicer shifter

Toyobaru cons:

Smaller front seats (if you're a giant)
WAY less cargo capacity
Smaller tank means more stops on long road trips
NOT a Porsche (if that matters to you)


Faced with the choice between a base 944 and a Toyobaru, I would get the boxer any day of the week. The 944 is old enough that it will be a maintenance hog, and parts are going to have a much higher price and lower availability at this point. Both are beautiful cars (though I greatly prefer the post-facelift 944).

Sorry guys, I never updated this thread...apologies for that. Just a few days after the original post, the car literally burned to the ground from an electrical fire...what a shame. I never even got a chance to take pictures of it....it was REALLY clean. Now it's at the pancake house, and probably been turned into bean cans already. Another classic gone. :(

:cry:

That sucks. I think the 944 as a weekend car and twins as the daily is a nice combo.