Lowering Springs - Best Option
 

Hi All,

new to the forum. So excited for the new GR86! Already ready for mods. Want to ask what brand of lowering spring that will lower the car about an inch, and offers the best handling? Also, if i lower one inch, do i need to purchase a camber kit?

thank you!

I had the same question for the 1st gen and one wise man told me that if I care about handling I'll ultimately do coilovers anyways. In which case I might as well save money on installation for the springs, alignment, removal, installation of something else, alignment, ... and just go straight to coilovers.

I don't regret hearing that advice.
Some of my friends did go the route of lowering springs, and nobody was happy with the result.

thank you! this makes sense. I am too old school...lol. So what brand of coilovers would you recommend? i want something that is comfortable for the ride, but good handling, if this combination even exist.

That's exactly what Annex Suspension claim to be delivering.

I personally haven't tried their coilovers
(got a different brand before Annex even revealed themselves as a company),
but they're on my short list for the 2nd gen.

I heard ohlins or KW is good.

Was just going to suggest Ohlins. Probably one of the best coilovers for the S2000 at least. Can’t imagine they wouldn’t be spectacular for the GR86.

thank you again! i am reading up on Annex Suspension now. But say i want the best handling coilovers, from a well known brand, for a budget of $1600 or less, what would you recommend?

From what I know, nah.

KW are expensive, and from what I know you can get similar performance for significantly cheaper.
I don't think I met a single person at track events who got KW's for a BRZ/86 recently.

Ohlins for our platform have changed dramatically over time, and the newer ones are known to be meh.

A common choice in that price range used to be CSG Spec TEIN Flex A.
That's what I currently have and I'm not too happy how they behave on the street.
Here's a thread with more details: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126107

You might also be able to find used Annex coilovers in that price range.
Some folks have been parting out their cars for various reasons, and I've seen a few Annex on sale at decent price.

Depends on the use, but I’m very happy with the ST Coilovers I have fitted. Perfect for the street and basically a KW V1 underneath.

Highly recommend against lowering springs

Lowering Springs - Best Option
 

Counterpoint, lowering springs can work very well if they’re paired with a good damper. RCE yellow springs with Bilstein B6 shocks is one of the best DD supspension combos for this car.

ST coilovers are also really good, it’s really a KW coilover with galvanized steel bodies instead of stainless. They also make the Greddy coilovers.

CSG spec Tein Flex A sounds like a great kit but the spring rates are really high for a daily IMO.

Absolutely nothing wrong with lowering springs. Its all dependant on what the intentions are. If you want to increase performance then yes a decent set of coilovers is what you want. If it's simply for cosmetic reasons and you want to close that arch gap then springs are the way to go. There are plenty of well proven options out there. There are no issues with longetivity on stock dampers too, just a typical internet myth.

KW V3 are popular in Europe they are very good but I've heard the 2 way adjustable dampening is probably a bit excessive and takes some skill to get setup right. Their resistance to corrosion is probably the best out there.

Tein flex A are also very popular they are good value for money you get adjustable top mounts and they offer the unique HBS feature. Tend to get a bit scabby over time though.

Ohlins R+T work really well but not on this platform, they have gone through a couple of iterations and the latest have peculiar spring rates. I've also heard of a few people needing premature rebuilds. Not what you expect from a premium brand.

RCE yellows are a good spring option. Eibach pro/TRD are popular as well. Yellows lower a bit less and have stiffer front springs which help with bump travel, and keeping you off the bump stops.

I will be curious if racecomp engineering make any changes to their yellows to optimize differences on the second gen.

Anywhere I can read more about your take ? In this thread ? Thanks

Lowering Springs - Best Option
 

Me too, @Racecomp Engineering can you share anything?

Came here to say this. Would do this 10 out of 10 times over coilovers.

Yeah look for my posts on that thread after September 2019.

I always love it when people talk about "coilovers" as if they are something different than even the stock set up. The car comes with coilovers!
Like anything else using a good lowering spring that has been specifically designed to use with the stock dampers is every bit as good (and usually a great deal cheaper) as going to a "coilover" set.
There are some pretty nasty aftermarket coilovers just as there are some generic lowering springs that people will slap on. Then they complain that they suck.
The trick with either one is to get something developed for the car.

How about HKS Hypermax, any thoughts?

+1 for this. Do not bother with lowering springs. IMHO you will regret it

^ Has not tried RCE Yellows + Bilstein B6's

I think the point is stock dampers are optimized for stock spring lengths and rates. Aftermarket coilovers are an integrated package so you aren't at risk of exceeding the limits of any part of it. Yeah, you can get shitty coilovers and regret it, but you can also get really great lowering springs that simply aren't going to work well with the stock dampers.

There are lowering springs that are designed to work with the stock dampers and are just as integrated a package. The point is don't just throw random crap at it.

Great point, I keep forgetting about B6's. I've heard great things about them but I don't know anyone in my area who runs them.

It also depends on the availability of options for a specific car/platform.
I know many people with Miatas run Koni dampers and get good results.

One potentially major benefit of coilovers is adjustability.
You can fine tune ride height, corner balance, and some coilovers allow adjusting bump travel.

True, but terminology is hard and people use whatever is commonly used.
Do they call gas stations gas stations in Canada like they do in the USA?
Pretty sure most of them only sell liquid fuel, and not gases. :iono:

Any particular lowering springs you have in mind?
I have a few friends with RCE Yellows and Eibachs who are unhappy with how they cars behave.
One of them puts stock springs every snow season, and every time notes an improvement in comfort.

Yeah, good clarification.
Cheap aftermarket coilovers can be even worse than decent lowering springs.
I don't think there are any decent coilovers below $1k, and it's not too hard to find crappy ones even significantly above that.

I've been riding on the TRD lowering springs for a few years now with no complaints. They only lower by an inch or so and worked with the stock dampers (though I went in and changed the dampers to the Bilsteins about a year later anyway).

Gas stations are using the abbreviated term for "gasoline" not the the word for the state of matter. English is dumb that way. A surprising number of people think that coilovers are in some way different that what the car comes with. They are not.

I had the RR Superdowns on my FRS. There is not a massive difference in ride between them and stock. The difference in handling for street driving was also minimal though.

I am looking at going to full aftermarket units for the 86 though. I would like to have the ability to lower in summer and raise in the winter without having to swap springs.

Just want to let people know that springs are actually still a viable option depending on what they are after. This automatic dismissal of them since "I have friends that didn't like them" is only one side of the story. There are just as many that did and still do like them as didn't.

The difference between "coil over shock" suspension design and the buzz term "coilovers" is that "coilovers" imply you are getting at the very least ride hide adjustability and possibly one or two way dampening adjustment.

I am happy with yellow/B6. For a simple street setup I can install and forget about it ticks the right boxes.

Good condition stock 2017 dampers with yellows worked pretty well for me. Unless you install springs on new shocks you'll probably end up with variable results depending on their condition.

I cannot overstate the importance of this. I’ve had fully adjustable setups on cars before, and I never stopped fiddling with the settings. It was exhausting.

Something I didn't see mentioned is that lowering springs have different drops. I can't speak for the twins, but I wanted better suspension feeling on my old Mazda 3 because the wheels bounced over sharp, choppy ripples that heavy trucks made while braking on downhills.

Anyway, most springs were about a 1.2" drop which seemed like too much for me here in Pittsburgh where I want to keep most of my suspension. Finally I found Racing Beat who made higher-performing springs with only a 0.5" drop. I paired those with Koni Orange (chose orange over yellow to have a little less damping), and I was really happy with that combo. Just checked and Racing Beat still doesn't support Subi or Toyota but general advice is that when discussing lowering springs, how much the spring drops the car is another factor and it could take some searching to find one that doesn't drop much but still reduces roll, etc.

+1 on matching this answer to what youre after in your car. i had eibach prokits on stock struts and 17x8 +35 rpf1s on my 1st gen and was thrilled with the stance/loss of wheel gap and still a decent ride. brought it to do hotlaps once at ncm in ky and had a blast and backroads were a blast but wasnt trying to win any autox competitions or run track days. probably spent a grand less than even budget coilovers and couldnt have been happier for what i used that car for.

We're still waiting on our preordered 2nd gen shop car (BRZ). :(

In terms of fitment, coilovers are pretty straightforward and I don't expect any major changes.

For springs, we're planning to do some testing to see what the factory shocks can support and if a 20mm drop from 1st gen springs gets you the same 20mm drop on a 2nd gen. Shock dynos, checking travel, bumpstop length, etc. Just want to be sure.

All new products will be developed on both platforms moving forward. :)

- Andrew

As for lowering springs vs coilovers...

It depends! As others have said, coilovers aren't always better. There are a lot of crap coilovers out there and yeah, some crappy springs, too. Sometimes a lowering spring or a coilover is a downgrade from stock in ride and handling.

We make both lowering springs and coilovers. Our springs are a little different than others in that they are a more mild drop of 20mm and generally a function first type of spring focused more on performance and come with replacement bumptstops. Factory springs do ride better especially 2017+ cars, but the mild drop really does help ride compared to other springs that lower an inch (25mm) or more.

If you reeeeally want a drop of more than 30mm, I do recommend a quality set of coilovers. Compression travel is an issue on factory style shocks and since most lowering springs have to be on the softer side to work with factory valving, your bump stops get a workout.

And if you are serious about the track or auto-x and use sticky tires, coilovers will be a better fit. The stiffer spring rates will make the most of stickier tires and a good coilover will be valved appropriately for that kind of driving. You can still have a blast on track with lowering springs or the stock suspension.

Coilovers do require more thoughtful and careful set up. If you buy a turbo kit, you don't just it bolt on and go rip some red line pulls after tightening the last bolt. You get it tuned by a professional or follow recommended break in or tuning procedures carefully. It really should be the same for suspension set ups that have a lot of adjustment. Alignment, ride height, rake, travel, compression/rebound/highlowspeed damping, spring rates, etc. There's a lot to think about. Work with a shop that specializes in suspension and can provide aftermarket support. We're one of them, but there are other good options out there too. Have some conversations and see who you can reach on the phone after hours.

- Andrew

Oh and what makes a coilover crappy?

Firstly, bad set up. An super expensive ($10k), super adjustable, fancy-ass coilover can still suck if it's set up wrong. It happens.

Other than that, crappy valving is one of those things that you can't see and takes some experience to feel. Adjustable shocks can help, but valving is a little complicated and your adjuster may shift things from soft and crappy to stiff and crappy, with no good spot in between. It's more than just soft and stiff. Springs are simple.

Also, travel is super important and even though you can go lower on coilovers, some still do not have enough travel.

And we often see the same basic generic valving used on lower end coilovers. Meaning they use the same damper cartridge for multiple cars (I've seen the same damper labeled for EVO, STI, and 350Z). That's not great.

- Andrew

Check out our apexfiles instagram with some basic tech articles and random stuff sprinkled in.

Here's one on coilovers vs springs:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLEl6v5n..._web_copy_link

And a more advanced one on shock valving:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJd5GH4H..._web_copy_link

+1. I went with the TRD lowering springs and TRD swaybars for a few reasons. First this package was developed for the car so it's going to be a good setup with the stock dampers - which I've found, like it a lot. the cost is way less than decent coilovers. I don't track the car but love a spirited drive in the twisty bits so I just cannot see myself farting around adjusting coilovers - I'd set them up and forget about them.

I had the TRD springs on my Gen1 and loved them, so I was looking for GR\TRD to release a set for the gen 2 they were perfect for my requirements,.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Like anything else using a good lowering spring that has been specifically designed to use with the stock dampers is every bit as good (and usually a great deal cheaper) as going to a "coilover" set.
Any particular lowering springs you have in mind?
I have a few friends with RCE Yellows and Eibachs who are unhappy with how they cars behave.
One of them puts stock springs every snow season, and every time notes an improvement in comfort.

I have the Eibachs on OEM shocks and I like them. It lowers the car just right with very little effect on ride quality. I don't worry too much about "snow season" but I can understand how lowering springs would not be ideal in the snow.

TRD springs in the us were maybe by eibach

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