Is The New BRZ Better Than An S2000? | Real World Test Drive And Impressions
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDqleTChfZw

I haven't watched that much of this channels content so can't say if this video will be worthwhile, might be worth a look as I have seen a lot of comparisons between the two cars on here.

Also maybe there should be a stickied thread for these sorts of videos - I hope I didn't miss it if it already exists.

The video is still live. Some first comments on the Forester STI are exactly up to the point (i.e. this car doesn't exist anymore and the new Forester is just a straight SUV and it's huge if you put it beside the Forester STI). I'll check the whole content and in more particular the S2k comments and I'll let you know.

:thumbsup:

As expected ...

"To me BRZ just feels like a new and improved version of the older car", but he cannot compare it to the S2k. Especially when his S2k looks in such a good condition and under 60k miles!

Hope you won't get too much hate over here pal. :)

Is The New BRZ Better Than An S2000? | Real World Test Drive And Impressions
 

So basically my modded S2000 is better than a stock BRZ because I like it better? Alright I’ll skip this one then.

I just watched it, keep in mind I haven't driven either. His thoughts seem to be in line with what other owners have said.

Also his drive was just around town so perhaps he didn't get a full impression of it compared to his car which he is familiar with.

His thought on the rawness (NVH I suppose) of the S2000 is a little unfair given it's a convertible and I'm sure the BRZ is designed to a daily driver. It's a valid point to make though depending on your usage.

Lastly the specialness aspect that he highlighted would be dependent on how you view the ownership proposition of a used S2000 versus a new BRZ, each has its pros and cons which you need to evaluate for yourself.

Edit as pointed out by Yoshoobaroo above mods will probably get the BRZ to where you want it, so it's basically a matter of preference.

Is The New BRZ Better Than An S2000? | Real World Test Drive And Impressions
 

Also let’s not forget the S2000 was a 50K USD car in today’s money. The fact that the BRZ is beating it in a straight line at 29k is a testament to the fantastic job Subaru has done, let alone single-handedly keeping this segment alive in the last 10 years.

I get that people are invested in the S2000, I remember desperately wanting one in 2008-2009. But now it’s an overpriced 20 year old car that it is starting to be hard to find parts for. I’ll take the car with a warranty and 2 extra seats that performs near-as-makes-no-difference the same.

Agreed, generally speaking I can't get my head around worshipping older cars and realistically wanting to own them - not that I am financially able to anyway.

The new Twins are as good as we could realistically hope for and they are new, to some this makes it a no brainer.

Why not just compare it to a Cayman? The price disparity is so great between the two cars it's a wonder they are comparable at all. In it's time I'm not sure anything was comparable to an S2000 aside from a Boxster, which also was more money.

Most people that would consider a twin could not live with an S2000 every day.

One good aspect of the S2000's enduring reputation -- for some, anyway -- is resale value. Even our well-used example holds enough value to help fund its replacement.

Agreed, it being the only RWD Honda product in the last 20 years does make it desirable. I can’t help but feel that most of the valuation of the S 2000 these days is artificial though. If you look at it objectively it is nowhere near a good value for money in the light weight naturally aspirated rear wheel drive sports car segment.

There was a nice Japan import clown shoe Z3M coupe for sale nearby a few years ago. Compare that to an S2000.

as someone who owned an s52 Z3MC, the s2k is definitely the better sports car of the two.

but i was too tall for the s2k so the z3mc was the next best option for me

Sports car, or car in general? This one that a Japan importer had on his lot had lots of stuff in it, a big strut tower brace and I'm sure lots more. It looked ready for weekend track use.
Too bad distance and other concerns make weekend track visits not viable for me anyway. I just thought that oddball BMW was a keeper for longterm value wise much like the S2000.
I had a cooworker who purchased a Z4M coupe new when it came out. I didn't love the dash/interior but I do like the *idea* of a responsive n/a inline 6.

I believe his comment on rawness is not related just on sound or NVH. You can install in the BRZ a better exhaust and stiffer bushings and you can have a comparable feeling. Main problem is how to achieve an engine rev up to 9k RPM. S2000 AP1 is pretty unique in this area and an achievement of the 90s. So, there is a reason to be so overpriced and desirable nowadays in Japan. Autobacs ASM tried pretty hard to give some love to the 86/BRZ too, but the user acceptance wasn't really the same.

I don't think I have that good a grasp on how the attributes (bore, stroke, displacement, redline, etc) of engines determine its character but would the new 2.4L engine be able to rev up to 9000RPM without being torque light down low?

Obviously Subaru prioritized low down torque to address the first gens main complaint, and given the relatively lower price point the Twins have over the S2000 I imagine the compromises they made make sense for that price point. Although there is no denying that with the banning of ICE cars it would have made the Twins something really special if it could rev that high.

While I haven't had first hand exposure to the S2000 and as mentioned earlier even though I think they are desirable, the appeal of a used car is less than that of something new especially if it gets close to offering a similar experience. The looks have aged very well though due to being a simple design without any(?) fussy lines and being as low as it is it looks the part of a sports car, of course I'd love to have an engine that revs out that high too, but short of exotica, Porsches and a handful of JDM and other obscure cars it seems like more worry than its worth to me.

IMO the s2k is still ahead based on it has a very very robust high revving motor whereas with the fa24 since it's essentially a bored out fa20, would still have potential issues such as rocker arm ejection if they didn't add any rocker retainers on the fa24's.

They had a problem to keep the 2.4L engine even in the same revs like the 2.0L engine. First development engines had a lower redline, but they were afraid that it won't be accepted and they fixed it. One issue was the extra weight of the pistons and rods, so they had to convert to the old (EJ- engine family) rod design to keep the weight down and the other issue was the breath of the engine. For the latter they had to go with a shorter and bigger intake manifold which hurts the torque in low-mid revs, but it is not quite noticeable cause of the bigger displacement.

Integra Type-R > S2K

I watched this one. I mean as he said it just turned out into a love letter to his s2000.

I'm sure he would of preferred to give the BRZ the stick around the mountains as well, but unfortunately he could only take it around the block :).

Its a bit of artistic license, the guy wasn't reviewing the BRZ, nor comparing them to answer the question is one better than the other.

Don’t forget that demographics play a major role in old car prices. There maybe a day in the future where interest tails off on a certain genre of cars or specific cars. Japanese cars are coming into their own because of demographics and others cars already priced high. Remember we are in a money printing bubble so all assets are up. And the classic car guys do a great job of telling you about the crazy sales, but never about cars that are sold for much less then it cost to restore or that lose value or interest. 20 years from now interest in cars will change undoubtedly. How many on here plan on buying a steam powered brass car in the future?

The first gen twin had similar performance to a DC2 Integra Type R.

‘12 to ‘16 BRZ vs DC2 Integra Type R —> https://zeperfs.com/en/duel4320-176.htm

‘17+ BRZ vs DC2 Integra Type R —> https://zeperfs.com/en/duel6893-176.htm

It looks like the 2nd gen is slightly better performance wise than an S2000.

Not sure how the Integra Type R is better than either, unless you’re talking about driving feel? As numbers aren’t everything.

Used car market is also different in Japan. Many owners will treat their cars as something precious and in some cases won't put much mileage too. Not sure if you can still find such a good condition S2000 car outside Japan:

AP1 with 1,200 km

Owned an S2000 many years ago. Only kept it for about six months, just didn’t love it. As a drivers car the engine and gearbox were excellent, but I prefer everything else on the 86.

off-topic but is that your Evora?

Yeah, mate.

The S2k I test drove several years ago was twitchy. Maybe good on track but no fun to drive around town. If two seats, not fitting, and no roof were cool for me, I'd get an Elise or Miata.

That's awesome. I know cars are totally a subjective matter but I hold your opinion with a heavy weight...I drove an Evora GT recently and I can't describe how amazed I was in terms of being a driver's car! Loved everything about it.

Just wait till you drive the Emira :D that's my dream car right there.

Having never actually driven one lol I can't really say much. All I know is what others have told me, would love the opportunity to own one someday. I had a DC2 RS at one point, probably one of the best cars I have ever owned, can only imagine the jump to a Type-R. I don't fit in the S2K, legs are too long, or Miatas :(

LOL. I drove the Evora GT to get an idea of what the Emira would be like.
I have the 10th spot at one of the Lotus dealerships and placed the deposit the day after the reveal.

I did all this while in escrow for a new home but had a GR Supra to sell. But now i've decided to furnish and landscape the new house and just get the 2nd gen BRZ.

I would have drooled every day owning the Emira. Sadly it's a pipe dream now.

The Emira and the new BRZ/ GR86 were the only two cars I was excited about.

Wait wait wait, he test drove an automatic MY22 and resulted that his modded S2000 was better? Well no shit.

Feels like he wanted to make a video about his S2000 and added some BRZ commentary in to get more views.

I've been watching Albo for a couple months now. The review def was a bit biased, but maybe he was also talking himself out of wanting one?

Clickbait bullshit. You guys are feeding into it.

He said that if you are under 30 and you want to buy a daily driver that you'll change in 5 years, then it is a very good option. I suppose the age was mentioned, because someone will want afterwards a bigger car (i.e. family). My only objection is that he forgot to mention the option of buying in Japan the "RC" or "RA" grades and focus on tuning them. Such cars will be more special or even much better than a S2k, but otherwise I don't think his view was biased.

Eh, I don't disagree and did share it before getting a chance to watch it. Having said that though if one understands the inherent shortfalls of modern cars some of his comments can be worthwhile when assessing if the new Twins are something worth your time, not that opinions are in short supply but he's also an owner of a car that it is compared against. YMMV.

I mean, you say his comments are useful to assess whether you want to buy one of the new twins... I find that a bit shocking.

I assess this video as he assessed it, a love letter to his s2000 - he doesn't have a serious take.

Stock auto BRZ driven softly around town verses a modded S2000 driven aggressively on a twisty road? Which experience is more exciting? This guy just wanted to stroke himself and talk about HIS car. I regret watching the video.

It's not a deep dive into the BRZ and yes he talks a lot about the S2000 given, it was a short drive - in an auto no less - but he does offer minor insight between the two.

In the ocean of "content" that's churned out by everyone and their mother on the Internet it isn't something either of us will remember for long but it offers a sliver of a comparison between the two for free, for whoever was interested.

Also we have many reviews already assessing the Twins, so we could easily take his comments in light of those and judge for ourselves how much the merits of the S2000 matter.

Furniture is overrated. Pick up some stuff from Good Will, then go buy that Lotus.:cheers: