lucas oil stabilizer vs. thicker oil?
 

pretty simple question. it seems the biggest problem with this motor is the oiling of the main bearings. lack of oiling leads to a spun main bearing, iirc, #3 or #2 because they share a single oil jet.

i'm not into tuning or modding-- my mechanicals are stock, and i've got minimal interest in changing any of it besides installing ITB's for the sound characteristics, maybe. my interest is really just engine longevity, despite the fact i love ringing it out and bouncing off the limiter.

ignoring the overall costs of the options, (lucas' product is $20-some/quart), is it better to run a thicker oil like 5w-30 to make up for the lack of oem oiling? or is it better to run something like lucas' product that makes 0w-20 'sticky'?

is there a better third option?

or is it 'good enough' to just run 0-20 and figure it all out later?

Recently did a 11 000km (7500 mile) oil interval on Castrol 5w 30 C3. UOA came back perfect. Previous UOA on 5w 30 also came back good. Previous UOAs on toyota 0w 20 also were fine. The Euro spec castrol keeps my oil pressures in the 50 psi range while the 0w 20 hit the low 40s at 118 C (244 F). Car is stock with bouts of spirited back road hooliganism but not winter driven.
I would definitely NOT use an additive, no way, no how. Used Oil Analysis is cheap insurance. Oil Temp and pressure gauges are nice for piece of mind and look cool.
Do a UOA on your 0w 20 and see how it's holding up, then decide.

First off, Bubba suggests you set the shift light to about 1,000 rpms below the rev limiter. Thatta way, by the time you see the light and shift, it will be before the rev limiter kicks in (or kicks the engine down-;)).

(for those of you over 70, set the light 2,500 rpms before the rev limiter)

Then just go with your plan B (your bolded).

:D

You should be fine running a decent quality 0-20. I have been tracking my car for 6 years, mostly on 0-20. Though I haven't done a UOA for a year so maybe I should hold my opinion on that.

2 things:

1) Wouldn't running a thicker oil be Harder on your single oil jet, so Less oil is sprayed, leading to worse lubrication?

2) My oil recommendations are: Eneos Racing Street 0W-20, Idemitsu Zepro 0W-20 (if you can still find them, they seem to be discontinued?), Toyota genuine motor oil - in that order. I want to see the technical data sheet/safety data sheet for the gazoo racing oil before I recommend. On the japanese website they seem to have circuit and endurance gazoo racing oil, but in the US there is only one gazoo racing oil .. not sure which one it is (if it is even one of them at all, who knows).

I'd say stay away from Lucas. Stick to your regular oil and just keep it going. Bouncing off the redline isn't an issue with 0w-20. Doing it at high oil temps on the other hand, might be. So if your driving habits constantly bring your oil temps up, I'd switch to a higher weight oil, but no more than 5w-30. The best you can do aside from that is just be mindful of oil temps. If you smack the redline a bunch and the temps creep up, start shifting earlier (like 6K) or calm the driving and let the car cool down a bit. Then you can do it all over again! I can't guarantee these habits will help extend your engine life... but they are likely to help when it comes to our platform.

I've tried Lucas in the past for other vehicles. From my experience, it does more damage than good. In the short run, it looks to help. But in the long run, it expands problems further. I could be wrong with that as maybe there have been many other success stories with it. I simply agree with the logic to stick with the stuff the car was designed for.

Not sure how you'll protect against banging off the rev limiter, that's just negligent since it's pretty rough on a stock tune and how it just bucks you hard if you run into it. If you tuned it for a soft limiter that just hangs at 7400 rpm that's different.

A "sticky" viscous oil additive would probably ruin your engine on a freezing cold start.


Having an oil that can deal with temperature extremes are more important, below freezing and in overheating conditions (summer track days). If you're in Chicago, during fall and winter months you should be running 0w-20 for easy cold starts, and replacing it a couple times through the months as the oil gets diluted with fuel from cold starts / idle.
During summer months in the Southeast I run 0w30 with a quart of 0w40 mixed in, and I think its good for hot days. I will be switching back to 0w20 in November when we start getting mornings below 50 degrees F.

I wouldn't buy into ordering in specialty oils. I've spent a lot of time on BITOG forums and seen good results from pretty much every oil analysis on modern synthetics. Whatever has API Certification label on the shelf at walmart is good, save the money and just change your oil often.

Be aware that thicker oil runs hotter, is less efficient. If you're tracking during summer and running some kind of thick race oil, get an oil cooler.

I would challenge you to try Eneos Street Racing 0W-20 vs your generic brands like Mobil1/Castrol/etc 0W-20. If you are in tune with your machine, you'll a much smoother cold start and overall smoother experience. I've got a friend that runs a shop and he's noticed the difference (most significant during cold starts).

Sure oil analysis says how good your engine is being worn in (or rather the minimization of wear), but it doesn't say how smooth the engine is when actively running.

I also found a slight improvement in my MPG in highway cruising due to less internal resistance.

i run castrol synthetic in my cars for no real reason..

but what i'm seeing is that eneos has 20% additive to each quart per the MSDS. so how is it different to run 1 quart of lucas with 4.5 quarts of synthetic oil over 5.5 quarts of 80%/20% 'pre-mixed' oil?

All the average 0W-20 oils run 45 cSt at 40°C, eneos street racing 0w-20 runs at 28.6* (not 35) cSt at 40°C. The viscosity index is significantly better providing a more stable and consistent oil flow to your engine. It also provides better lubrication based on the amount of vibration felt while driving and improved mpg. I call horse-crap on the HP "unlocked" by their marketing though.

lucas oil stabilizer makes the oil run thicker and worse.

if you've taken delved into chemistry before, you'd understand that its generally harder to increase viscosity index by adding* other chemicals into the a solution. That's what impresses me the most about this product ~

I'm curious, what are the Eneos visc numbers at 0C and 100C?

NASIOC oil thread
 

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2714154

If Subaru recommends 0w20 for your engine, the bearings should be very happy with 7.5 cSt oil, if we put RC 5w30 into the engine, the oil temperature can rise to 240°F before the oil viscosity drops below 7.5 cSt, now we're at the upper limit of optimal oil temperature. With HD 5w30 the 7.5 cSt temperature rises to 260°F, basically the upper limit of acceptable. In other words, using a 40 grade oil implies we will be operating the engine at unacceptably high oil temperatures. And since using a heavier oil encourages higher operating temperatures, we're compounding the problem. So, if you think you need 5w40 in your car that calls for 0w20, what you really need is an oil cooler, possibly a big one.

Read the thread, see the graphs, learn about the Stribeck Curve.

https://www.eneos.us/wp-content/uplo...0-20210430.pdf

Kinematic viscosity
(40°C) mm2/s D445 test 28.6 cSt
(100°C) mm2/s D445 test 7.3 cSt

If you're not tracking the car (or driving *way* too hard on the street in warmer months), just run 0w20 and don't worry. If you *are* tracking the car run HD 5w30 synthetic in the warmer months. I wouldn't bother with any additives from Lucas or anyone else...

I don't think anyone should be concerned about what the viscosity is at 40C.

Also don't think 240F is high, or that 260F is the "upper limit of acceptable" for oil temp. Any decent synthetic is going to be fine up to 300F and beyond. But if you are tracking and running higher temps, you'll definitely want to be running at least 30 weight.

2 nice UOAs at 25k and 50k using either Subaru 0W20 or Motul 0W20. At 68k, next one at 75k. DD and spirited driving. Some high revs, but no rev limiter.

it's useful for calculating viscosity curves ~

https://www.widman.biz/English/Calcu...erational.html

Find the viscosity of your oil online, plug it into the calculator. Add in the max sustained oil temp you see and bang. If your cSt answer is less than 7.5 (see my previous post), you need a thicker oil. If your already running a HD 5w30, then you need an oil cooler.

I guess? But just from "0W20" or "5w30" you already know viscosity at 0C and at 100C. I wouldn't use the 40C number to extrapolate beyond that range.

On the hot side, you usually have an HTHS at 150C number to go by.
And on the cold side, if you live where it gets *very* cold, you have CCS and pour point temp.

I think HTHS is more important than extrapolated viscosity for high rpm/high temperature operation at the track. IMO run oil with HTHS >=3.5 cP @150C and yer good up to pretty high oil temps...

I'm running Redline 5w30 (3.7 HTHS) at 275F max oil temp at the track for ~15 minute stints, ~4 stints per track day, and change it out after 4-6 track days. Your calculator says 6.3 cSt at 135C(275F). So be it... If I was running much longer stints or endurance racing, I might run an oil cooler.

[QUOTE=ZDan;3476240]I think HTHS is more important than extrapolated viscosity for high rpm/high temperature operation at the track. IMO run oil with HTHS >=3.5 cP @150C and yer good up to pretty high oil temps...

Can't argue with that either. HTHS 3.5 or more for the Castrol I run so I'm happy. Kinimatic viscosity calculations mimic well what i saw with 5w30 and with 0w20. Hated watching oil pressure drop off with the 0w20 at temps matched by the numbers. If I push the 5w30, I should see the same drop off somewhere north of 118C. No race tracks around here unfortunately.
I determined a while ago that the risks associated with a cooler weren't worth it for my usage and the numbers say I don't need one. Interested in your UOAs and oil pressures. Not being a smart ass. Really glad someone is out there running this car hard without a cooler.

What did oil pressure drop from/to?

Yer fine and correct to ask, but I don't have pressure data and haven't done UOAs. If I was worried that I was on the limits either way, I'd monitor, but I'm somewhat relying on UOAs done by others who have tracked without coolers, running similar max oil temperatures to me and haven't seen any unusual or worrying oil degradation or wear metals. For pressure, my understanding is that pressure drop at elevated rpm may be more due to restrictions on the intake side of the pump. https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134863
But same source says that "A stock engine can take 7,600 RPM all day long..." so I'm sorta counting on that as well...

42 track days and approaching 60k miles, so far so good :)
And a few of those track days were with 0w20 so :slap: on me for that!

With 0w20, I was seeing low 40s psi at redline and any temp above 105 C. This was probably fine (my UOAs said it was) but I always eased off when I hit 116 C and let it cool. So basically I could get 3 or 4 turns in the upper rev range. On 5w30, I see mid 50s psi up to redline at 118 C and can hang out at high rpm enough to tail a hard running K20Z3 for 15 minutes on a twisty road. Not a track day for sure but enough.
Read that thread on oil pressures. Not seeing the pressure sag at redline with 5w30.

damn you hit 275F?
I can't get it past 100C/212F with my engine sitting +4k rpm for 20 minutes runs

That claim seems a bit too good to be true. Much of this is based on outdoor temps of course, so if you're talking about cooler days, then I can I understand. But at 4k+ RPM's for such a long period of time and you're holding at 212F still??? Seems like if that were the case, not a single person would ever consider any type of cooler on this car as a DD.

Seems about right to me. Averaging about 6k rpm on track for a full session my car runs about 230 +/-10f depending on ambient. I am running a 613 core.

I possibly missed where he mentioned he has an oil cooler? I just assumed he was stock.

I got the basic oil-water oil cooler from subaru installed.

Sure my last run wasn't the hottest of days, it was like 91°F outside.

Got it, so you at least have that cooler, which is likely what is doing the work. Because on an 80 degree day, if I'm cruising on the highway at 3.5K RPM, I will see temps get to around 225-230F. Good to know it keeps your highway temps nice and stable, it's a definite next mod for me just to keep temps in a sweet spot.

With just the Forester water/oil cooler? Hmmm... Where are you reading temperature from, and what sender and gauge (2013 so no factory gauge, right)? I'm going by the factory '17 oil temp gauge, which does jibe with ECUtek datalogging.

212F seems quite low even for constant 75mph on the highway! I'd expect at least 255F at the track with the factory Forester cooler based on reports I've seen, and some report oil temps at the track barely any lower vs. no cooler at all.

Doesn't seem low for streets I would say. Initially I had thought he was completely stock. But with the forester cooler, it seems to do a nice job taking care of oil temps that aren't on the rise quickly. As I said earlier, I see no more than 225-230F when cruising at 3.5K+ RPM on a warm-hot day. It doesn't change much on the hottest days either, still don't see it tip above 230F. So I can see how the forester cooler would be able to upkeep with that as the coolant stays fairly steady with consistent airflow.

OEM oil temp data sent to the ECU, read by my torque app

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...00&postcount=2

and this is the location:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...77&postcount=9

this was at buttonwillow when it was like 91°F outside

I've known for quite some time now that the Subaru oil cooler is what I wanted to get, I just don't know why I have been holding off so long... I think it's time to end the wait. :)
One quick question for you, as I've read on this topic a few times in the past. Which routing did you take, to the TB?

TB - much easier and shorter routing. Only issue was the different port sizes at the throttle body made for some annoying coolant leaks during testing

Gotcha, yes I've read about this and will purchase an adapter to not deal with the issue. Appreciate the info!

Subbed for later.

I run the 0-40W Euro spec Mobil 1 since HKS supercharger kit stated higher viscosity oil was required for the kit. No issues, but I also don't have an oil temp gauge. Oil looks really good still during intervals, no technical analysis done. As for the tiny bit of fines that come out, they appear to be same or less than pre-boosted state.