NA first drive days for BRZ? This week?
 

At the GR86 event, which was 2 weeks ago, all of the reviewers said they had to wait two weeks to drive the BRZ.

That's this week, or potentially really done?

May or may not be a reliable source but I read on the reddit ft86 discord that the BRZ reviews release or happen on August 30th.

That sounds about right, the GR86 DRIVES happened 2 weeks ago, but couldn't release anything until the 17th. So while the BRZ drives might be happening about now, we likely wont see videos for another week or so.

I'm really looking forward to an independent comparison of a 2022 BRZ and a GR 86. I'm pretty sure Subaru will not be providing a GR 86 for comparison.

every edition of the FRS/GT86, whatever, has been the unrefined version of the cars. the add-on parts back in 2016-2019+ "TRD" have always been a sort of teenage mix of things. 18" wheels lended nothing to the comfort or street effectiveness, spring changes, big huge wing, etc, all of it not tested and not tuned by actual engineers. the simple PP 2017 changes were all tested, the strut tower construction had even an addition, all tweaks not listed that Tcoat noted, special struts designed for it, made it smoother, quieter, less jarring of a ride, and perform better in every manner.

The GR86 has "more aggressive throttle mapping" which means it behaves like a turbo car, the exact reason we do not buy one. Linear NA engines are the whole point of things. then mention of the "iron knuckle" for suspension vs supposed Aluminum of the 2022 BRZ, "more of a touring car", means clearly less kiddie, more stable, more realistically faster for all circumstances, less youtube bro style.

Just my thoughts and they are all probably correct.

As usual, I disagree with pretty much everything you said, but this quote is the most egregious.

First, not sure how many of us buy this car because it doesn't behave like a turbo car, but whatever. More importantly, though, the problem with turbo cars isn't "aggressive throttle mapping" to anybody I know, it's turbo lag.

What's particularly funny about your observation is that probably the worst characteristic, by far, of non-modded twins is the torque dip that occurs between 3000 - 4000 rpm (by the way, which is one of the reason I questioned your preference to keep cars bone stock - because if you haven't made an attempt to fix the torque dip problem on your BRZ/86 by AT LEAST tuning it, I don't know how you even drive it). Indeed, it ends up feeling like a turbo lag without the pay off that usually comes with it.

In any event, what aggressive throttle mapping actually means is that the pedal more directly controls the throttle. Not sure how anybody on here wouldn't be in favor of that, but thanks for you 2 cents anyhow, I guess.

no aggressive mapping means it fake bursts speed and is non linear. physics and chemistry do not change, bro-appeal is real

When I hear "aggressive throttle mapping" I think of the S# mode on the STI, where it just makes the throttle less linear. Where you depress the peddle 20% but you get like 90% throttle. So I get what ~el~jefe~ is saying about that.

But I don't quite understand what he means about the iron knuckle. Beyond cost savings, there isn't any benefit of adding more unsprung weight. The aluminum is better in every way besides cost. Why else would people spend so much to get forged wheels, lighter calipers and rotors, etc. etc. The extra weight was simply deemed OK simply for the $ savings.

Let's stop with the misinformation.

"Aggressive throttle map" just means there's a throttle pedal to "torque" table in the ECM that allows the tuner to adjust how sensitive the throttle pedal is. Many modern ECMs have this table and it allows the OEM to easily differentiate between various driving modes (comfort, sport, sport +, etc).

This throttle pedal table is especially useful for modern small turbo cars that can make max torque at insanely low RPMs, which is why a lot of turbo cars give this surging feel when you accelerate. The table allows torque to be 'de-tuned' so it feels less punchy.

I would be surprised if the factory engine tune is different between the GR86 and the BRZ. A tune has to go through many tests (e.g., emissions) before it's approved. It may not be worth the additional costs when the point of these cars is to share the cost between Subaru and Toyota. Maybe 2 completely different tests don't need to be performed when the engine tune is minor. Who knows.

OFT for 1st gens is known to have more "aggressive throttle mapping" than OEM.

It was so bad that I couldn't smoothly and reliably control weight transfer at the apex even when I tried really hard.
I made a custom throttle map that is a lot more linear, and it's way easier to control weight transfer in corners now.

I'd take linear throttle curve (with uniform sensitivity throughout the range)
over the one that makes the car feel faster without making it faster (but as a side effect making it harder to control)
any day.

Judging by other changes in the GR 86, and the history behind those changes, my intuition is that the BRZ is tuned to what Subaru engineers felt was best, whereas GR 86 was then re-tuned "to differentiate". Not necessarily to "what Toyota engineers felt was best".

What is a fake burst of speed vs. a real burst of speed - inquiring minds want to know.

one is all in your head and the other can be measured on the dyno?

lol

Pretty sure that more aggressive pickup would just make the throttle feel more responsive (though its not really).

That's the opposite of a turbo profile right?

I'm guessing he means when they tune the throttle to be non-linear on purpose. Instead of the throttle pedal being a linear line from 0-100% throttle it's programmed to be sharper increase lower in the pedal progression. Depending on how they tune it you can feel like you're only pushing the pedal 30% and it's giving 80% throttle, etc... My WRX was like that and a tune made it much better. It "feels" like you're always flooring it but it just makes it harder to be smooth with.

That's practically all turbo cars once on boost, twin scroll helps a bit.

The journalists would be been screaming bloody murder had the GR86 been given that kind of throttle mapping on an NA engine.

For track users it will be interesting to see the differences (if any) regarding the fasteners and components related to the new aluminum knuckles. Hopefully the reliance on “torque to yield” bolts isn’t too prevalent

https://www.knowyourparts.com/techni...-service-tips/

I’m really interested to hear technical reviews regarding the advantages of the rear sway bar design.

There's a difference between turbo lag/building boost and throttle mapping though. Although this kind of throttle mapping in a turbo car definitely compounds the effect imo.

Factory WRX tune was notorious for that. Not to mention it had that cheesy 2 second overboost function. The only reason I can think of Subaru doing this is to impress people on test drives.

I wouldn't be surprised if the next gen WRX kept this turbo surge trait.

Looks like BRZ press day is at Lime Rock today.

https://i.ibb.co/hDvxTxf/brzdrive.jpg

Hope to see a comparison, maybe Throttle house or any other that ran on their home turf.
Also, curious if the suspension changes makes much difference on this power level.

Save the date: "driving impressions are embargoed until the 30th"
https://www.instagram.com/p/CS-MifPp65K/

A quick search revealed a few more IG posts from Lime Rock:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CS-maKTlm0X
https://www.instagram.com/p/CS-hcuAFfwm
https://www.instagram.com/p/CS9tn8tLoGm
https://www.instagram.com/p/CS9j84pLg3o
https://www.instagram.com/p/CS95wqyr3Of
https://www.instagram.com/p/CS9mmY6l9ja
https://www.instagram.com/p/CS-LnNXF6uY

Anyone know what time we should start seeing impressions pop up on Youtube?

They already are it seems.

Now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqNyaBxBy8Y

Does anybody actually buy that BS COG argument the Subaru carline planning manager spouts in one of these reviews about why there's no turbo on the new car? If so I've got a fabulous Florida real estate investment opportunity for you....

Just saw that. Probably no embargo. Probably a free for all. Whoever gets it up fastest wins.

I do not expect all the fuzz that the GR86 videos had, as most of the information is already available. Let’s see if they can bring something that would add value to the reviews or else if they’re going to just rinse and repeat.

It doesn't have a turbo, its designed that way, lets appreciate it for what it is - marketing guys are marketing guys.

Having the lowest COG this side of 100k is a pretty cool thing anyway.

Looks great in red.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z19psw9dQ3Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM7K...rivingSportsTV

He says he has more confidence driving the BRZ fast. Hmmm.

..yes?

All their new/current turbo designs (aside from the outgoing STi) are mounted directly below the motor. Adding a turbo to this chassis would require lifting the entire drivetrain like 5 or more inches. That would greatly affect the COG... It would also would add significant cost and weight, which are also huge selling points for this car. Besides, it goes against everything this car is meant to be. Want a turbo? Go elsewhere or but it on yourself? :iono:

@7:55 " ... if you push and hold both of them [stability control buttons] for 4 seconds, it will let you turn everything off completely..." Would be great if that was the pedal dance.

Confirmed: at least on the BRZ, at least on the auto, you can have tire pressures displayed in track mode.

https://i.imgur.com/Gls9O8X.png

Source: 6:13 in this video

https://youtu.be/4wmZIxJEqTI?t=373

I think the verdict is pretty much what the Japanese first drives said. The BRZ is more stable in turns and less tail-happy.

I keep reading and hearing the steering doesn’t have that much feedback, but is still precise. The first gen had an incredible steering feel I thought. Did they tune it to be that much lighter?

The GR 86 looks a lot better but the BRZ is the car I’d appreciate with my driving style. It’s a hard a choice for me…

Another video demonstrating that you can indeed change the mode of the left display in track mode, this time in a manual car.

Starts at 8:00

https://youtu.be/AqNyaBxBy8Y?t=480

I'm pretty sure with camber bolts the BRZ will be as good as it gets for a stock car, and GR86 will be too tail happy.

Actually there was an embargo, and Redline followed it: it lifted at 9am EST today. Hence all the reviews popping up at 9:01 EST

This event happened over a week ago per several of these reviewers’ instagrams.

Does seem like the BRZ will be the better car (better stock suspension I should say) to add power to…

Per the Motor Trend review: “We had enough oomph to play as we wanted in the GR 86, but our faster pace in the BRZ had us wishing for more power, just like in the old car.”