All-new 2023 Nissan Z makes world debut!
 

Join us for the live debut of the 2023 Nissan Z!!!

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...-reaction.416/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcw9K7n5sJ0

WOW!!!! Stunning. So nice to have choices!

2023 Nissan Z Official Release! Specs, Pics, Videos, Wallpapers
 

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...allpapers.418/

https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2021...san-Z_O-11.jpg
https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2021...san-Z_O-32.jpg
https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2021...ssan-Z_O-8.jpg

and over at Subaru......
 

Cancel the Thursday release party as same old boring sedan can't compete with this or the 86 or integra. Might want to do something special with the STI y'all.:bonk:

Lame. I remember more last year. Has something changed or more information been added since the last time they did a reveal?

I want to know when I should be selling my car correspondent to the delivery of this.

The massive front grill still looks hideous. But I like most of the rest of the design. Futuristic.

looks great in that blue. meh wish i had enough monies to get this and the gr86 lol

Weight?

The blue improves it dramatically, but I still don't like all the small details in the design. Love the overall shape, but the front just looks unfinished, the silver trim above the window looks tacked on, and the taillights just make the car look old to me.

Hopefully they can tidy it up with the inevitable refresh.

Doesn't look like Nissan released it with the other specs. Probably still needs to be finalized

I hope they do well with this.

Remember to join our sister forum if you haven't already done so!


NissanZClub.com

hmmmm, do I change my FR-S to another Nissan in the stable?

Wow, looks stunning! And I love the color!

he said around $38k for the base model. but im reading it doesn't come with LSD.

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...a-400hp-z.415/

https://youtu.be/wfCt4L_jw4g

It looks unfinished... by a lot.

Somehow I think the side view of the car is the worst, middle third needs to go down an inch or so, currently looks... big, even though it's not actually that much bigger than the 86.

Rati's pricing... I really want to see how much the performance pkg adds. I'm guessing added on with a few options 52-55k OTD.



Yet still looks smaller in the cabin. No way he'd be getting a helmet on in that car how he was sitting.

If they had priced the car at $70k then would anyone who thought it was going to be $40-45k would be out of their mind, or would Nissan be out of their mind? Maybe in this case, Nissan jacked up the price because they think they could get it, but that isn't a necessarily a reflection of how cheap it could cost.

Also, how long have we been discussing the price of the next Z? Prices tend to creep up each year.

Could the base model of the 370z be less equipped than the base model of this next Z, such that it isn't an apples to apples comparison? The base 370Z was very basic: cloth, no LSD, smaller brakes, etc. Maybe this Z is closer to the Sport or Touring version of the 370Z. Maybe they will make a cheaper, base model in the future after this launch edition. Who knows?

Considering the price of the Q50/Q60, and considering how much of the new Z is borrowed from the old Z, it is entirely reasonable to conclude a refreshed car and a different engine would only be a $5k bump to $35k and not a $10k bump to $40k. Again, when considering an apples to apples comparison, $5k might still be accurate and not an "out of their mind" estimate.


The interior is pretty similar. It'll be similar materials and similar build quality. It is a little bit more modern, as the 350Z/370Z was dated, but you can see the handles, vents, pedals and many things were carried over. The Z was always a GT car. The ZX was more premium, but this is more Z than ZX. The Supra is more premium. This is more of a value buy. More Camaro than Corvette.

https://cars.usnews.com/static/image..._dashboard.jpg
https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2021...ssan-Z_O-8.jpg

Production Z vs Z Proto Visual Comparison
 

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...omparison.428/

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/at..._001-jpg.2129/
https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/at..._002-jpg.2130/

If you have to step up to the Performance Trim in order to get the LSD and larger brakes, I'm gonna be somewhat annoyed. I hate leather seats and definitely don't want any of that extra luxury junk.

The latest photos of the Z look better to me than it initially did. The styling seems more subtle, curvaceous, sinuous, and in general, very appealing. It has a timeless aspect to it, less contrived than the previous 370Z (and without over-wrought styling gimmicks like atomic rocket bunny exaggerated side sills or goiter-size rear lip).

It's almost certainly the last "Z" sports car Nissan will build (at least one that's a true, internal combustion, manual transmission car and not some Ford Mach-E Mustang SUV abomination usurping the name), and a fitting one to the heritage.

I especially like that they will offer some color in the interior. The shots slathered in blue are fun, as well as the limited 'Proto' edition yellow. Almost all car interiors these days are just uniform seas of black on black trimmed in black with black accents. It's like descending into a deep, dark cave. I know it's a lot cheaper to adopt Henry Ford's policy on the original Model T ("You can have it in any color as long as it's black"), and all the money saved by offering only a single color. But, really?!?! A sports car is supposed to be light-hearted and fun. Colors go a long way (don't get me started on the 26 exterior shades of gray and silver instead of bright, saturated, primary colors). It gets tiring looking at the same old same old endless black interiors everywhere. I'd pay extra for some color inside (FWIW, I just traded in my WRX daily driver for a Kia Stinger, and the availability of a maroon red interior was a non-trivial factor).

Depending on the pricing of the Z, it could well give the BRZ/86 some serious competition, IF the price is in a range buyers consider 'comparable'. I'd guess that if the Z starts within $5,000 of the BRZ/86, it would sway a lot of people. But it's hard to see how Nissan would offer a starting price at less than $40k-ish, which would stratify nicely with the less expensive BRZ/86.

Regardless of what one thinks of the Z, the world of car enthusiasts is very lucky that both the new Z, and the second generation BRZ/86, are being built. The sports car segment has been shrinking for some time as people migrate in lemming-like droves to SUV/CUV boxes. Add to that the inexorable and somewhat forced drive (pun intended) into the bland, soulless, devoid of all passion electric car + autonomous transportation pod future, we should be thankful that Nissan, Subaru, and Toyota are building these cars. It's Fin de Siecle, the waning last days of internal combustion sports cars, affordably priced, and especially with thank-you-automotive-gods manual transmissions, and we should appreciate and enjoy them while we can. Once they're gone, they won't be back.

Pay your money and take your choices, among some of the last but very sweet machines being offered.

Just to add to myself:

The new Z is not a Supra in many ways like I mentioned. The Supra is more up market. The Supra may have a build quality and refinements that economy car buyers may not value, which is why it is for premium car buyers. The Supra has an underrated powertrain.

The Z is the Japanese pony car. As such, expect it to feel like a powerful car in cheap clothes. The platform will be great for tuning, but from the factory, we are talking 400hp, which is less than the Mustang at 460hp or the Camaro at 455hp, and they start around $36k for the base GT and $35k for the LT1. The outgoing Z was $30-31k for the base model, undercutting the competitors with price and weight, but also power at 332hp. Expect weight to be up from the 370Z from adding twin turbochargers and heat exchangers, but I don’t think the Z can successfully move too far up in price. It may initially, and then they may dial it back. They may try to get in on dealer markups by just raising the price, knowing dealers will try to cash in. Might as well take a bigger piece too, but I don’t think the Z has much wiggle room to jump up $8 or $10k from where it was priced previously from just an engine upgrade and refreshed design alone. They would need to at least start with a trim level above their base, offering at least a LSD, premium sound, technology, bigger brakes, better tires, etc. Might as well. Then dial it back after the hype dies down. If they don’t do that then I could see many reviewers making the comment, “With an all knew engine and an all new design, is the $8-10k price increase over the outgoing model worth trading up? Stay tuned to find out.”

Another factor is the pandemic-related supply chain disruptions affecting all cars. Supplies of all cars are dramatically reduced compared to typical levels. Most dealers have almost no new cars to sell (my local Subaru dealer has exactly zero new Subarus on their lot; it's all used cars). The Kia dealer where I bought a Stinger typically has 100-150 new cars, right now they have a total of 5. I can't imagine this won't also impact both the Z and BRZ/86. If supplies of those cars are limited, combined with the money burning a hole in people's pockets buying frenzy out there, rapacious dealer mark-ups may be likely for some time.

Just look at the crazy ADM's dealers are getting for the few more pedestrian cars available. Now imagine what it might be for a sought after new car like the Z (or BRZ/86).

I'm very much looking forward to driving both cars. But I think any possible buying will wait until the next model year, when production lines hopefully are cranking out more cars and the initial frenzy has cooled down.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2023...ssis-code-z34/

"we asked a Nissan executive if the new twin-turbocharged sports coupe's chassis carries the Z35 chassis code. We were simply told "no." You read that right: by Nissan's own internal standards, the changes made to the latest Z are not significant enough to warrant a new chassis designation. The 2023 Z chassis is not internally known as the Z35, and it instead maintains the Z34 chassis code of the 370Z."

During the presentation, they didn't talk about anything other than "tuning" the car. Most of the car is likely carry-forward then, other than changes they had to make for crash, technology, etc.

Much of the cost increase likely comes from the engine being more complex. The 3.7 was found in everything and paid off a long time ago.

The TT3.0 is lower volume and more advanced.

So $40K with 18" AS tires and no LSD and a more bare interior.
+ $5K for a sport package with LSD and 19" wheels and tires.
+ $5K for the leather on the dash, bigger screen, nicer seats, etc.
+ $5~10K for the Nismo with forged wheels, adjustable suspension, new seats, more boost, etc. Probably $60K or more when all done up.

All in, you are looking at Supra pricing as both cars will be $50K fully loaded - dealers will negotiate the Supra price down.

So Sport, Performance and Proto trims.

Previous gen offered a base trim, Sport, Sport Touring and NISMO.

https://www.nissanusa.com/content/da...rochure-en.pdf

The Sport trim on the 370Z added many features that RR showcased on the Performance trim including a larger set of brakes, forged Rays wheels, LSD, sport exhaust, aero bits, Bose, etc., and some stuff from the Sport Touring trim like the larger screen, leather seats, etc. The new carbon fiber driveshaft is an add-on. The Performance trim seems like the Sport Touring trim of the previous gen, which was around $39-40k. RR said confusingly that the car would start at $38k, and you can add or subtract from there. Did he mean this Performance model would start at $38k and the Sport would be cheaper? That seems realistic.

I bet the Sport will have less features than the old Sport model, but more features than the base 370Z. I’m expecting LSD and optional carbon fiber driveshaft on all trims. Sport would have a basic stereo system, cloth interior, basic manual adjusting seats, basic brakes, no spoiler or front lip, no sport exhaust, strut bar (looks adjustable BTW), cast aluminum wheels, basic sport tires, smaller infotainment screen, etc. Spoiler and front lip could be dealer add-ons. Two-toned paint is optional at a premium maybe. Stuff like that. Might have a technology package. Might have a sports package. I’m guessing the Sport trim will start around $35k. The Performance will be $38-40k and the Proto will be a launch edition with special coloring, badging and maybe a few extra bits priced around $43k. I think a NISMO edition is a few years away after they milk the hype.

I wouldn't be surprised if supply chain setbacks lead to price increases, but maybe not. Has that happened? Also, this is a 2023 model, slated to come out sometime in 2022. The GR86 will be in late 2021 to early 2022, so I would expect the Z to be mid to late 2022 to early 2023, which means there is more time to get the car ready for production. Definitely worth waiting until the frenzy and dealer markups cool down.

Well, the 3.7 was a displacement bump over the 3.5 VQ, and the VR is essentially a turbo version of the VQ, which dates back to the VR38 in the 2007 GTR. The VR30 with direct injection and turbos dates back to 2016, but it is in far less cars than the VQ, which was shared across Nissan and Infiniti vehicles. In some ways, it is a carry over. In some ways it is new, but expect the VR30 to replace a lot of VQ engines when new models are released like the upcoming QX60. These will probably be the preferred engines with base models starting around 300hp and upper trims being 400hp and 450hp+ hybrids, losing the 5.6L V8.

All this means that the VR is not that special. It is just another engine. I wouldn't expect a giant price increase in an engine going through its evolution.

Check out RR review above and my trim breakdown, and I think you will change your pricing. For instance, the outgoing Sport trim on the 370Z had LSD, larger brakes, forged Rays rims, sport tires, etc and was sub $35k.

From the first silhouette of the car in the ads I really really wanted to like this car. Now that I've seen the production version, well, I just can't. I'm sorry but I don't think it will age well. It meets the current standard of a "generic sports coupe" in shape and design, and is just boring. My last hope is it looks great in person and just isn't very photo/videogenic.

Still, I'm glad Nissan is making at least this one last version of a great car with a hell of a true legacy (unlike the 86 and Supra which are legacy adjacent but not the real thing)

I was thinking that supply constraints would lead to more rapacious dealer ADM's. I doubt the manufacturers would raise prices at their levels. But with other cars on the market right now, ADM's are more the rule rather than the exception, even for relatively pedestrian cars.

A couple of years ago, Stingers could be routinely found for $3-$4k under MSRP. Now most dealers want $1-$2k over sticker. I would expect the same (or worse) for a hot, new, in-demand desirable car. Especially with Nissan dealers, who (in my own personal experiences) have been the absolutely sleaziest of all. Wouldn't be surprised to see it on the BRZ/86 as well.

It looks official that all models will have the carbon fiber driveshaft, but all I see in the press release and every media article about the car is that you have to get the Performance trim package to get the MECHANICAL LSD. That tells me that the base (Sport) trim has an open differential or some brake dragging BS (fake) smart LSD. Seems dumb.

Also the fact that they haven't mentioned curb weight yet is not a good sign. I think it'll be kept in check and be in line with the Supra (basically talking a 100-150 lb gain) but that they don't mention it...isn't good. I mean these jackasses are highlighting the turbine speed gauge feature (who gives a crap about that gimmick?) but won't mention curb weight? Come on now...

Have to wait and see the official pricing and feature list for each trim before we can fo an apples and apples comparison.

I’m sure curb weight is 3500lbs+

Yea that’s what i’m expecting too. It’s a bit of a red flag to me that Nissan still won’t commit to a weight figure.

2023 Nissan Z out in public in Times Square
 

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...es-square.437/

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/at...uare-jpg.2142/

Maybe the carbon fiber driveshaft is an attempt to lower weight and a performance gift as a consolation for the higher curb weight. This will have turbos, intercoolers, parking sensors, etc. The Supra is more premium, but only has one turbo and a more compact/light engine and a lot of aluminum, so I wouldn’t be surprised if this is heavier than the Supra, and Nissan doesn’t want to mention that, especially if Nissan is comparing this car to the Supra to market it as the cheaper alternative, while justifying the price bump through that comparison.

The Z has had a graphite driveshaft since 2003 though.

Didn’t know that. Thanks.

Nissan Z in black
 

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/th...previewed.442/

https://www.nissanzclub.com/forum/at...an-z-png.2178/

I honestly consider this a 300ZX, even if they're just calling it Z (dumb to me).

3.0 liter V6, check.
Twin Turbos, check.

The late, great 300ZX from the 90s had 300 hp and weighed over 3600 lb and cost around $40k (creeped over the years as exchange rate got worse). If this can be around 3500 lb and $40-45k (properly equipped) then we really can't complain too much.

It is still on par with the other pony cars in quality. When they went from the 280Z to the 280ZX, the car essentially went from an economy pony car to a premium grand touring car, adding many options to the car including 2+2, and to achieve this, the car was a complete redesign. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't think anyone is going to pulling this apart and feeling like they have a premium car. This car is not upmarket.

It lost displacement and added turbos. This is a popular trend. Turbos don't mean upmarket. In fact, the 350Z was competitive making 305hp in 2008, where the Mustang was making 300 from a 4.6L. Now, the 370z makes 332hp, which isn't even close to the 460hp that the 5.0L Mustang GT makes. The Z is dropping displacement and adding turbos to play catchup. 400hp in stock form is still not 460hp, so they need to be banking on the tunability of the turbo platform to make sense moving forward.

I know you know the difference between economy, premium and luxury. I'm sure you have seen the chassis of the Supra. Can you honestly say the Z is a ZX being so down market from the Supra, which is a premium car? Have you owned or been in a ZX compared to a 350Z? Remember, this picture is from the 90's, but does this look economy or premium, and does its modern comparison look anything like the new Z? I'll throw a picture of a Lexus SC400 interior from the same time, and the Infiniti Q60 vs new Z, but there is so much more that goes into a premium vehicle than the basic visuals...surfaces you interact with, sound deadening, knobs and spaces that have to get turned and opened, lighting, weight to objects, material selection, etc. I know you know what a premium car can feel like, so it irks me when people persist the idea that economy cars with "premium touches" like adding real or fake stitching to rubber to make it look like leather or putting a carbon fiber grain to surfaces to make it look like real carbon fiber puts the car into premium car territory.

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/XE...turbo-ebay.jpg

https://ccnwordpress.blob.core.windo...-sc400-std.jpg

https://www.napleton.news/wp-content...0-1024x681.jpg

https://s.aolcdn.com/os/ab/_cms/2021...ssan-Z_O-8.jpg