Rebuild motor or built short block?
 

So i'm panicking since i didnt think i would break the motor from a dumb forgetful mistake. I forgot a ratchet on the crank pulley bolt and now my engine on start up immediately has metal to metal contact. Like heavy, violent shaking near the center of the engine(probably crankshaft)

Anyways, plan is to put some pistons, rods on the old block if its saveable. but since find a shop to assemble a built fa20 motor is proving to be quite difficult. Next best thing is to get a built short block from IAG or some other performance shop and put the heads on myself. I am quite the novice case in point being i broke my engine with an install. so yea.

how difficult is it? oh yea this isn't for an NA car. Turbo-ed. Trying to reach 400hp or around there. anyone with built motors that were total noobs when they did it?

This would be a good post for if ever my motor also breaks, sub'ed! Good luck with your project.

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What is your budget? Built block is nice but a long block replacement is about the same cost and you have extra parts to hoard/sell.

I recommend the used longblock

From what I read, a built short block is the last stop before the ls goes in. Or a k motor or whatever. I'm very skeptical of "built" anything.

Just get the IAG you get a warranty with it also. I got it but stayed NA.

You do know that putting heads on is not just a simple case of slapping the heads on the block right? It is a pretty involved process.

my budget is probably like...3k maybe 5k at the most. I've seen alot of used motors around 3-5k.

yes sir. From what i've been reading and looking at videos alot more parts since the springs and valves. also the timing components. Putting the cylinder heads would together and putting it on the short block would be easier to me since i wouldnt feel comfortable measuring the clearances on the short block.

:thumbup:

Just making sure. You shouldn't need to tear the heads down so far as to mess with the springs and valves if your heads are in good shape. Make sure you prep, prep, prep. I recommend printing out the sealant application "maps" from the manual ahead of time. Follow them very carefully.

Appreciate it. =D Ive been looking over the service/shop manual on the assembly of short block and heads. Ill be tearing down the heads to check the valves. It sounds like the valves and pistons are hitting each other. Would it be possible the car is somehow out of timing? I suspect that might be the case since the crank pulley and bolt were fully off with the accessory belt just there.

Shouldn't be out of time. The timing gear is keyed to the crank inside of the timing cover. Working out from the assembled block on the crank snout you have the timing gear(keyed to crank), timing cover(oil pump is housed in the timing cover), crank pulley spacer(indexes on the same key as timing gear and the flats drive the oil pump), and crank pulley. The crank pulley spacer has a pin that indexes to the crank pulley. You would have to pull the key to get it out of time. What where you doing when you had left a wrench on the crank pulley?

I did a clutch install about 2 weeks ago. I had someone hold the crank in place when tighten up the flywheel and clutch/pressure plate. forgot about ratchet and drove with it on the bolt still.

How hard is it to pull off the crank spacer. It doesnt seems to move easily.

It should just slide straight out if the crank pulley is off. It is common to have this accidentally come out during aftermarket crank pulley install.

Just cause im not sure. The spacer is the metal thing that the bolt goes into right? And theres a little positioning dowel/pin on it right? If it that is the crank spacer yea its not budging or moving by hand.

Yea, Ive seen that. But i thought you had to have a IAG certified installer to do the install to get that warranty.

Yes that is the crank pulley spacer, it is a slip fit. With the crank pulley removed the only thing holding it in place is friction from the seal and possibly some friction interference from the oil pump since it drives it. It should be fairly free.

In this thread they talk about it accidentally coming unseated from the key on the timing gear pulley.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26386

You can also see it on the diagram in this post, there is nothing holding it in place but friction once the bolt is removed.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...&postcount=306

Thanks!

So that orange gasket is the front main seal right? And smaller o ring is for the crank pulley spacer right?
I wonder why mine isnt coming out. I wonder if its those o ring/gaskets stopping it. Or something in the block is stopping it

Yes, that is the front main seal, it is that color because it is viton, a high heat material.

Did the ratchet on the crank bolt hit anything? I guess it is possible it bent the snout of the crank. It would have wedged the oil pump in it's housing if that is what happened. I would be very surprised if that is what happened but at this point who knows. I'd imagine if you turned it over by hand with the pulley on you would see it walk if that was the case.

@Ultramaroon any thoughts?

I think the crank is bent and the harmonic balancer is wedged on there. :(

I recall on start up after the clutch install there was a loud metallic thunk. So im assuming it hit the metal underpanel or the headers.

First pic is just the spacer with the pulley and bolt off. The spacer isnt flush with the front main seal.
second pic is i recreated of what i found when the car eventually died on the side of the road minus the crank pulley cause im lazy to put it back. The bolt was hitting the oil cooler lines. Probably saved it from completely falling out

Also the ratchet was on un-tighten setting when it was left on there so thats probably how it eventually unthreaded.
@NoHaveMSG
About turning the crank by hand, It stops turning after maybe about maybe 180degrees. Is that normal? I tried with alot of force to turn it. The car is in neutral.

Yeah, I think the crank is bent for sure looking at those pics.

so what you guys are saying is. @NoHaveMSG signature applies here? aww shoot. now i wish i drove it like i stole it lol. dang it. only like 70k on it.

Of course it would be the only piece that most people dont replace when they do a built motor since that from the factory i heard is pretty strong.

I take it back.. I don't know what's going on. I thought you couldn't get the H-balancer off for some reason. If the screw backed out and it was driven, then what happened and what exactly did you have to reinstall?

It looks fine in your photo. If it jams while you're turning it, something else failed internally.

Printing the recall instructions is even better. The original manual is a lot less detailed on the packing seal application. The recall instructions are dummy proof.

I reinstalled the pulley, bolt and the accessory belt on. It was driven about 5-6 miles before the car died from the battery.

I suspected the pistons are hitting the valves. But wont know till I pull the motor. Thanks guys.

Ill post the pictures of what i find. When i do the eventually pull and teardown.

Based on this:
I think it is binding the oil pump since the crank shaft pulley spacer is what drives it.

I had the same feeling but my next thought was that it would've been munched had it failed while the engine was running. o_0


:popcorn:

i mean....it might have. it sounds so terrible. i left out a part where after the initial part where the car died from the battery. I had one of those portable battery car jumper things. I just wanted to get home with the car so i waited about 20-30 minutes for the water temps to cool down. Jumped it, it started then it died about 1000ft later.


this might have actually happened. or at least something got munched

Staying tuned. One thing. Promise me that the next time you hear a loud bang under your hood, especially just after working on it, that you'll stop and inspect. :slap:

I actually did that. My brother was standing in front of the car on startup with the hood still open. He said it sounded like a loud metal clank. so i tried to replicate it after i inspected what i thought it was. I thought i heard it from the transmission area since i just put in the new clutch.
but yea gonna be an expensive lesson learned.

Teardown of engine but got stuck. While trying to remove timing cover a piece of sprocket fell out. I cannot for the life of me remove the timing chain cover. Something is stopping it from being removed. All bolts are off.

The sprocket has the half moon on it.

Anyone ever run into this issue? Or knows what i could do to remove the cover?

Did you pull the crank pulley spacer out?

Maybe try putting the crank pulley bolt back in and hold it while trying to work the cover loose.

I did try that. It wont budget. I grabbed it with channel locks. Its ruined now but i just want the timing cover to come off

Hold the bolt in? By hand? Or thread it in.

I was thinking thread it in and hold it clockwise with a wrench. If the pulley spacer is stuck in the cover it is probably bound on the oil pump which may or may not be in pieces at this point.

Yo youre the best! No sure if it was because of that directly but i turn the crank to where it felt smoother/looser to then and unthreaded the bolt left it on with the ratchet on it and it came off!

But yea it looks like my key way/woodruff key came pff with the crank shaft sprocket

Wish the circumstances where better. Glad you got it off though and thanks for sharing the pics.

I wonder how much runout the end of the crank has. Did the jolt just bust the key and sprocket or if the crank is actually bent.

Thanks for the help! I already accepted i broke the motor from stupidity. Not even the normal stupidity (driving like a hoon)

Runout? As in how long the front shaft is? It looks kinda long to me. Im assuming the jolt broke the keyway and a few teeth on the sprocket. I can turn the crankshaft all the way now so maybe its not bent? Its junk now always since turning it a few times, i heard a thud from the LH bank cylinder head i feel like since its pretty a little out of time its doing that.

Runout is essentially checking how much wobble is in a shaft.

It sounds like it’s not salvageable though. Such a bummer.


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Ahh, I see.

the crankshaft is done, that big o hole on it. hopefully the heads will be fine. ill post more tomorrow when i get it all done.

I wouldn't write it off quite yet. That hole is in the drive spocket. Looks promising, actually. I wouldn't be afraid of going at those burrs with a little bastard file.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...31/557/a88.jpg