BRZ/GR86 driving differences
 

So I've been looking at videos and reading barely understandable auto-generated translations.

There are two things that have stuck out so far, and neither will probably surprise anyone.

1 - The GR86/BRZ have different clutch engagement or accelerator pedal feel.
2 - The GR86 has been been made to oversteer a lot.

Its the second one I'm a bit more worried about - because its not like the BRZ seems unable to kick its read out, it just seems like the GR86 is willing to lose it with very little power.

While I do think that the current model BRZ/86 on performance tires needs more power, particularly the BRZ, I don't think either will need to tune more oversteer now that it has more power.

edit - was watching this one posted earlier.


Now it might well just be tires (I think I made out the word *edit goodyear* while one guy was riding in the GR86), or I might just be seeing things and thinking that 'sex party with still stiffness' means something entirely different.

I'd love it if anyone who might speak Japanese can give us a summary of what's being said about the driving differences...

edit: was watching this posted elsewhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mft2QoaRi6c

The zenki GT86 was like that too. I remember test driving an FR-S and halfway through a light drizzle started. I was coming from a 400hp 335i with 265s in the back, and the FR-S was almost impossible to drive straight with my expectation of grip. The front end never washed out, but the back end always stepped out when you were thinking about going near the throttle mid corner. The BRZ needed a bit more tossing to break loose.

I ended up choosing the BRZ, not related to the handling differences though. Although I always found it interesting that a simple spring change made the character between the cars so significantly different feeling.

I'm definitely testing both this time around.

My 86 test didnt show up anything, I was just giddy with excitement.

Honestly I didn't even know how hard to go or what I was looking for in a RWD car when I first got it back in 2012 - my last car was the equivalent to your matrix xrs (Corolla Sportivo - but ours came with the jp spec 141kw 2zz), and before that it was a 1998 holden astra (really the german Opel Astra rebadged).

But now I do know what to look for in a RWD car - thankyou OG 86.

If you want the GR and don’t like the looseness the remedy is a rear sway bar away I’d imagine provided the stock one is too stiff

Soy sauce or duck sauce?

The Toyota people talked a lot about 'customisation'.

Perhaps make it the cheaper option, make it a bit squirrely, and sell you on all the factory suspension improvement parts?

Kinda like they did last time in japan if I recall =D

So the difference is pretty much the same as when the 86/FRS vs BRZ first came out?

Sure sounds like it, different face and stiffer rear springs on the Toyota.

Or softer fronts...

BRZ/GR86 driving differences
 

Yea, I think they’ll be a softer like last time, but a lot of the bias will probably be from upping the rear, since the testers keep saying the BRZ dives more in the corners.

Any difference in throttle response would be from tuning unless its a placebo effect from the chassis setup?

Should we keep in mind that these are pre-production models and what comes off the line could be entirely different based on the market they will be selling into?

Sounds like how the first gens were more or less, and I highly doubt that they would tune the throttle differently, but call me crazy in that regard.

Ugh, can we get pricing and options yet?

Depends, what am I eating? :) Duck? Forsure Duck Sauce.

Easy enough to tune the response from the drive-by-wire throttle and command more aggressive opening of the throttle plate. Personally I find the throttle response in the current-gen BRZ to be aggressive enough. Unlike my 987.2 Cayman 2.9! It had "sport chrono (+?)", and god forbid if I forgot to mash the "sport" button. Without it the car felt like a slug in "normal" around-town driving. Even in sport mode throttle response was lazy and boring, car felt slow as a Prius around town. BRZ throttle response was downright jumpy in comparison!

Do the cars look completely CGI and out of Forza to anyone else? Or is it just me?

I had the same thought

One thing I've noticed from the drive is that GR86 looks like a lower spec that we have yet seen.

The seats are all fabric, the sound generator isn't on (but may be switched off), plain interior door handles, missing seat warmers, plain stitching.

It could be prototype, but it could also reflect the bottom end car.

Fine by me. I've been concerned that they will simplify the range to basically fully loaded with AT or MT. If there is a base+MT then awesome. Although I quite enjoy keyless entry and start, but I'm okay losing that.

In fact, I'm a little salty about buttons littering my sterring wheel.

My Base MK6 GTI didn't have any buttons either.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/HbYAA...vtB/s-l400.jpg
https://cars.usnews.com/static/image...eringwheel.jpg

Insert: Oh yea? No buttons!? Back in my day we didn't have...

Ive come to like steering wheel buttons. And that mainly has to do with the location of the infotainment screen.

In my X1 the screen is high up and obviously controlled by Idrive. But my Scion IM is in the dash like the twins, but its kind of parallel with the steering wheel. Its actually NOT a good spot, continuously having to look down at it whereas the bimmer is in the sightline and i just need to glance right.

With the twins infotainment screen located somewhat similar to the as the iM, i would imagine the same issue will arise. And thats where the steering wheel buttons come in. I feel safer using it because changing songs and interacting with the screen takes my focus away from the road for quite a lot longer than i would like. Its almost like looking down at a phone while driving....

Obviously i cant tell if sitting lower down and having the center stack not as tall helps makes the sightlines any more paralell with where your eyes are, but that is my take on steering wheel buttons.

Yeah I dont like buttons either, but they look like they control the dash display, so its probably standard on all specs now.

Last time around in aus Toyota released with two version. Base povo on 16"rims, and top spec with all the bells and whistles on 17"rims.

Subaru at that time only released one spec, bang in the middle. On 17"rims, but with no GPS or no climate control aircon - cant remember exactly, but it was missing some of the interior upgrades.

In Japan they also had a stripper model which I'm sure you know about, running 15"steel wheels and no paint.

The GR86 kind of does, though I'd like to see it in person and compared to other cars in traffic. I still think it looks good overall (save for the continuous line in the back, which I hope can be deleted) and the performance specs seem really promising.

That line in the back tailights could easily be used for whitelines or redlines taillights,like the original ae86.

So the one japanese video where they're actually driving the cars on the track.

I believe its mentioned that the GR86 feels like driving a GR car (GR Supra, GR Yaris)
While the BRZ feels like driving a Subaru car (Impreza, WRX, Levorg, STI)

SO i'd say the differentiation is pretty well done.

One is paid by Toyota and the other by Subaru. Lol.

Debadge the inside and blindfold them until they are in there and they probably couldn't tell you which badge they are driving.

That would be very cool - and they could embiggen that black line on the trunk under the ducktail to get that 80s bar across the trunk/should-be-hatch look.

The first generation 2013 twins used the same dampers but a softer front spring rate was used in the Scion and 86. The end result being the BRZ was a bit more planted as you would want it on a track and the Scion and Toyota were more playful wanting to rotate more readily at lower speeds. For the track, the Subaru tuning is better but then not many people track stock cars repetitively.

All I would ever want from this platform is an updated one of these. The Corolla GTS and the MR2 both with the same 4AG engine were a hoot to drive, especially in the winter.

Nice ergonomics comment. I had a wisenheimer response, but I'll skip it. I don't like that stuff on the steering wheel of a sports car. My radio and nav isn't important enough to bother when I'm getting it on. The recent supercharger addition has me ignoring it all anyway. Set the Spotify upon getting in the car I rarely touch it other than to forward through a few songs.

But you look at an F1 steering wheel with more buttons and no radio. I digress.

A little insight and perspective.
 

It’s always been the focal point of design on this car. Docile ability to toss it around and enjoy the classic FR driving experience and for owners to grow in skills with the car. It is what the old AE86 stood famous for, and it was the goal to replicate that sort of joy translated into a 2012 car. It’s been that way ever since it was a figment of imagination as we started work on it in the fall of 2006.
So absolute speed and grip was secondary, and primary was to make the car behave very well to driver inputs of all sorts, and to be predictable and “tossable” with a lot of confidence.

For the first original 2013’s Toyota side was the leading project manager so this was the focus, and Subaru engineers followed along to learn the culture of such cars and owners typical around the world. Hence we did see a little confusion and even some internal resistance to push the BRZ. But in Japan things sort of went well and both cars took off with fanfare and equally with lots of shared marketing resources. Subaru did fine tune the BRZ with slightly more well-rounded behaviors as that was their engineering culture and flavor.

Fast forward to 2016, as the project started for the Second Generation slated for 2021. Toyota expended resources of GR to WEC and WRC Racing, and a huge chunk of cash at that by then with WRC also including developing budget for the GR Yaris . Also the GR Supra was at the height of needing resources in Germany for product planning, testing, and preparation for launch.

Hence the 86/BRZ was mainly handed off to Subaru this time, with few new key engineers from Toyota working at their base camp. By this time, Subaru engineers and product planners were much more confident in the line, with proven sales records of the first BRZ and moreover, by completely understanding what the 86-ness was all about. The new set of designers went to work with much clearer vision of what this car is, and should be.

These are the reason you see much more Subaru induced styling cues on this second generation. Gone are the styling keys influenced by the 2000GT from first gen. Many more Boxer shapes, and eclectic but thought through bits.
The first car had lots of polar friction from two firms trying to bend their individual cultures, but this second car the focus and goals were reached much more seamlessly. I guess that’s how Japanese firms work though. 1 They’re very loyal to their firms. 2. Nothing is smooth sailing till there’s a comfortable track record from doing something unusual. 3. Once the team is on a set path, firms excel at making something near perfectly.

Having said this, the new car addresses tons of things they took notes from the first. In a sense Chief Engineer Tada’s job was to set the course in 2007. Now that it’s set and there’s a clear lineage for this, he’s moved on and a new younger team are in charge to improve what was learned in first 8 years. This from culture, ownership life, as well as features and mechanical details.
They weren’t assigned to reinvent it. Both companies have top CEO’s who loves this product now. I think both bosses are happy with the product, and even has his or her very personal driving preference character still designed in, different characters. It’s not often that a large car maker’s CEO has such personal involvement in fine tuning a car. And not many car companies have a CEO possessing 17 years experience being a test driver, and also possess an FIA International Class A Racing license.

As for me, being an observer and consult, watching this car go from clean paper in the autumn of 2006 to today just prior to launch of baby #2, it’s been a very dear car for me, and will be one that shaped a decade of my life and more.
It’s neat to see this forum active and I’m really happy for all of us.

It’s also clear why BRZ and GR86 still have distinct final tuning differences to this day, and catering at such fine taste difference. It’s so subtle that it’s catering these differences almost only to those who love these cars at great depth.
It’s a great thing in 2020’s. It’s rare too, I think.

Thank you for that detailed response, I love the insight this gives us into the process!

To me this car and the GR Supra are the 2 freshest breaths of air in an increasingly stale automotive market. I am so thankful that there is a team at Toyota and Subaru that truly cares about the chassis dynamics of a car that they created a car that is so much fun to drive to us, an increasingly rare type of enthusiast.

I have followed the development of this car from the first time I heard about it in late 2009. Seeing it go through 2 concepts, launch, a facelift, and now a second launch, is very special to me, when these days even the most historically driver focused brands (BMW for one) stray from the driving experiences that we want.