2013 Subaru BRZ -- Another Power Steering Failure & Troubleshooting Help
 

Hello All!


Last weekend, my girlfriend lost power steering in the BRZ and the warning light came on. She managed to get it home, but I am not comfortable with her driving the car without power steering, so she's currently driving my old truck.



The power steering failure is consistent in my limited testing after she got home and I drove it around the neighborhood. Sometimes, after turning the car off and back on, it will clear briefly and the power steering will work, but most times it just displays the failure as soon as the car is started. The car drives like a car with no power steering when the power steering turns off and it is now consistently turning off even directly on some cold starts.



I got out my handy OBDII reader, however the car is showing no logged codes or pending codes.



Obviously the first thing I did was search this forum for similar issues. I saw a number of threads on the issue. Tons of them don't have resolutions in the threads, others have suggested a few items:


1. Battery Failing under Load -- This was my first thought, as the battery in the car has been leaking gases since I got the car and I've been battling corrosion when I open the engine compartment. I took the battery to our local battery store yesterday, the load tested it, said it was failing under load. I got a new battery from them and installed it yesterday evening. A new battery did not resolve my issue.


2. Steering Angle Sensor -- Saw some posts about this from people who have taken their cars to the dealer, but most of them have reported that even after getting it replaced from the dealer, the failure continues.


3. Failed / Bad ECU -- This seems most likely. At a reported cost on the forums of about $1,500, I'm really hoping this isn't the issue, but this is what my head is telling me.



I really, really don't want to take it to the dealer, but I will if there are no further troubleshooting suggestions I can try at home that you guys might have. I just know if I do, it's going to be a big bill and I have enough of those right now.



I would love to try and resolve this on my own if there's anything else I can try other than code reading and the new battery, which I have already done. Let me know if anyone else has had this issue and has resolved it without taking it to the dealer, thanks!

Sucks, I hope you get it worked out. Keep us updated. There must be an expert on this issue that can help.

@ermax ?

The power steering is electric. Finding an intermittent electric problem can be very difficult. The dealer computer connection may be needed to keep from using the shotgun parts replacement method.

Yeah, it's basically constant now, so I'm going to loop around the neighborhood now for a bit and see if I can get it to throw a regular code at me, at least.

It's an automatic, 100k miles if that makes any difference for troubleshooting.

My fiat x1/9 had no clutch when I went to get it out of winter storage last weekend too, had to rollstart it in second and do loops in the school parking lot to not stall at the only light between my house and where the car was lol. I got it back but it's in pieces on my lift right now, I'm bleeding the clutch but haven't figured out if the easy minor cylinder failed or master cylinder that is a brutal repair job..

BRZ was [emoji817] before this issue, love to figure it out myself and get it back to running great again. If I figure anything out on my own tonight I'll let yall know.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

are you sure the electric steering motor isn’t falling?

I agree with @ls1ac.

I suggest you take your car into a shop and have it sorted out and fixed.

A car with the power steering going in and out, is not something that I would want my girlfriend driving.

I suggest you save your DIY urges for something less critical - ;)

I mean, no one is driving it right now as I said and it's a pretty simple problem to know if it's been fixed or not, but I don't have anything else to try so finna call them today.

Sent from my SM-G998U using Tapatalk

This sounds like a loose connection or weird short/capacitor issue. Did you try unplugging/cleaning connections related to the power steering? Fuse?

I did, just the 80amp fuse in the engine compartment, looks OK.



Just some further thoughts after my test drive and attempt to get it to throw a code. I don't drive the BRZ often, it's my gf's daily, so not sure if it's new or unusual, but the idle seems to dip pretty hard about 3-5 seconds after starting. It always catches back up after it dips, but I can see it stutter down below a consistent idle and then pick back up to a consistent idle.



No codes on my test drive. Power steering always turned off within 10 seconds of moving in drive, sometimes on directly after restart, sometimes would come up off and then come on after rolling for a few seconds.



There is a firm lock bite when it does go, almost like you are hitting the steering wheel lock, and then it releases after a quarter of a second and you can steer without power steering. Again, unsafe to be driven, just troubleshooting.


Alongside the 'bite' when power steering goes out, there is an audible 'click' sound by my left knee when it goes out. Is the interior fuse box centered under the drivers knees or is it off to the left side? Any fuses in the interior box that anyone can suggest for me to specifically check, other than pulling and checking them all? (edit: I checked the interior fuse compartment, going to check and adding for my easy reference later when I work on it): 14ECU IG110AABS, electric power steering
9ECU IG210AEngine control unit1ECU ACC10AMain body ECU, outside rearview mirrors8OBD7.5AOn-board diagnosis system15AM17.5AStarting system19ECU IG210AEngine control unit


Any diagrams or guides where I may find the steering control harness or whatever that I have seen suggested may be loose? I think that's what you alluded to.



Still no codes and the Subi dealer can't get me in until next week, so more time to troubleshoot this weekend...


So, quick recap:


1. Still no codes
2. Dip in idle 3-5 seconds after restart (hot)
3. Steering lock 'feedback' when power steering does go out.
4. Audible click when PS goes by left knee, inside passenger compartment.



Anything else to try this weekend, I'm all ears and sockets.

No, I have not determined if it could be related to the motor failing. Any idea if there would be a code from that failure, maybe eventually if I let the car run for longer?


Anyone familiar if there's anywhere I can test output voltage of the motor and see if it is in spec or perhaps failing to output required voltage?

I can’t find a test procedure/voltage spec for the steering motor in the service manual. Just about every other vehicle component has a test spec so I’m surprised I can’t find anything for the steering motor. The service manuals are floating around the forum if you want to locate them and have a go at searching for the spec, maybe you’ll have better luck.

According to the the manual, Techstream can be used to test for intermittent connection failures in the wiring, if you have access to Techstream.

If the problem is in the steering angle sensor you should have warning lights for abs, traction control, and stability control because those all rely on the steering angle sensor.

The power steering motor is under the dash, I can’t remember its exact orientation, so it’s possible it’s above the left knee area and that’s what you are hearing.

There’s a “common” issue with these cars having the internal rubber coupler fail in the steering motor. It’s generally discussed as a “rattle fix” and I haven’t had the problem with my car, so I haven’t had the motor apart to know if the rattle could progress into failure, but it might be worth investigating.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133606
this thread seems to have info on accessing the power steering unit, not sure if this is the right direction or not. Good luck.

Thanks for that link, it will be really helpful it I can isolate it to the EPS motor, since the access to it is well defined and photo'd in the thread. I read through it, it seems like everyone who did the coupler piece change did it because of a rattle, not due to loss of EPS, but at least there's a well defined procedure for getting in there and getting my hands on the EPS motor.


I'll go through the service manual posted earlier as well and see if I can find an electrical spec for the motor (doesn't sound likely, since the poster couldn't find it) and I'll take home a bench power supply to see if I can test it outside the car under load.

No luck this weekend troubleshooting, couldn't get it to throw a code, dealer appointment scheduled for 8:15 tomorrow to figure it out.

I think you wore out the alternator trying to run on a dead battery.

Fingers crossed, that would save me about $1,000 vs. a new ECU. Paying $100/hr for the diagnostics to start.



Dropped the car at the dealer today and they called me right after I dropped it and said there was a valve spring recall to be performed if I wanted it, but it would take them a few extra days (while also troubleshooting the power steering issue).


I told them to go ahead with the recall (mine being a 2013, I don't think it could hurt, I'm sure there's new valve gaskets involved and other new parts that can break down over 100k miles) and to let me know about the EPS.


Hopefully Subaru pays well for the valve spring recall and the tech is feeling generous and I don't end up with a $1,000+ bill, but only time will tell what caused this EPS failure.



I'll be sure to update the post for the next person Googling this in 5 years when I get the car back.

If anyone sees this as can give me some advice in the next few hours, I need to make a decision:


Dealer just called me back, he said the EPS motor and maybe an associated sensor (he couldn't give me the name of it off-hand) are bad and need to be replaced.



He said that the EPS motor is only orderable as integrated with an entire new steering column installation, there's only one in stock in the country, and it'll take a week to get in.



Quoted me $1500 + tax for the steering column (including EPS motor) replacement. Says he cannot get just EPS motor by itself, it is not orderable as a stand-alone part on his end.



Does this seem a little excessive to anyone else? I told him to give me some time to loop back with him...I've seen the photos in this thread: https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133606


and it is quite obvious to me from these photos and the instructions that the entire EPS motor can be removed without replacing the entire steering column...am I missing something?



Should I tell them I'll just pay the troubleshooting, bring the car home, order the EPS motor off Ebay, and try and install it from the instructions from the link I posted above and see if that fixes it and saves me $1,350+?



Or does someone know if the EPS motor is truly mated with the steering column and the entire mechanism needs to be changed out?


Please help if anyone has any more knowledge than me, trying to decide if I want to drop $2,000+ because the dealer says it's their only way to fix it, or if I can just order the EPS motor and replace that by itself.



Any idea what sensor he may be talking about that might need replaced with it? If there was actually a bad sensor, it surely would have thrown a code in all of my testing, right?

@pope you were correct, have you replaced this before? Can you check my post above this one and see if you can help me with my questions?

If they are doing the recall I don't expect you to be able to take the car home today, I thought that was a 2-day kind of deal.

Can't help with the steering, but about the recall...
It certainly involves new liquid gaskets. Subaru hasn't killed as many engines doing it as Toyota, so it should be fine.

@BrettRS if you send the car in for recall, talk to the service advisor about replacing the clutch throw out bearing and spark plugs while the engine is out, will save you a bit of money not having to do that after. My Subaru dealership gave me this service at parts cost.

Yeah, I'm not expecting to take the car home yet, he told me the recall would be a few days. But in the mean time, I need to make a decision to have them order the new steering column or if I should get the EPS motor ordered and in the mail to me. Thanks for the reply, more hopeful that the recall will go well with the insight that Subaru's survive it better.



It's an automatic, so unless I am mistaken, clutch throw out bearing shouldn't be present. Are the plugs really that hard to get to that it's better to ask them to do them with the motor out rather than me replacing them after I get it back? Honest question, haven't had too much issue getting to spark plugs on most my motors for replacement.

I cancelled the recall work for now and told them I would just pay for the troubleshooting on the power steering issue and would be trying to replace the EPS motor on my own first. Going to pick it back up this afternoon.



If that is unsuccessful, I'll leave the car with them for a few weeks for the recall work and the steering column replacement.



Does anyone know if I'll need a new column ECU (like this listing shows: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-SUBARU...0AAOSwgn5fQB7p ) or if just replacing the EPS motor alone will not cause any further issues?



Shot in the dark, since I guess power steering failure isn't a common failure here.

Here's the service report, if there's any additional info conveyed that could be meaningful to my last question above about what parts to order.


https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...1&d=1617736228

The steering column and motor are only listed on subaru.parts.com as the complete unit for $888.xx, so with installation the quote seems about right, but assuming you have some rather basic tools and are comfortable working with the air bag, replacing the column assembly shouldn’t be too hard.

I have and have not replaced the column. I have not replaced the bottom half with the motor, but I did swap out the top half to put a keyed steering lock into my push start car. I got a complete column (two actually) from my local salvage yard for ~$100ea. If my basement wasn’t in shambles right now because of some work I’m having done, I’d go pull out one of my spare columns to confirm whether you could just buy a used column and swap just the motor.

The steering angle sensor is built into the clockspring assembly. I’m not sure if there’s any additional sensor built into the motor. I’d start by replacing the steering column/motor and worry about computers later.

Notes:
1. Key start cars and push start cars have different columns. The inner shaft in the upper half that the steering lock interfaces with is different. The bottom half is the same.
2. The electronic steering lock box in the push start cars is part of the immobilizer system, so if you have a keyless car you will need to go through the hassle of removing the security bolts from both the original column and the used column (if using a used column) to retain your original lock box. Otherwise the car will require expensive reprogramming that may or may not also require replacing the ecm, fobs, etc. (I have the impression from the forum that immobilizer components must all be replaced if any one is replaced, but I’m not 100% certain in this point. However, I do know that the used lock box from one of my spare columns would not work in place of my original steering lock.)
3. Swapping out the column will alter the steering angle calibration. Techstream will be required to recalibrate the steering angle. Power steering should still function even when the calibration is wrong, but abs, traction control, and stability control will not.

P.S.
The valve spring recall has mixed results across the forum with a fair number of cars having the engine self destruct after the recall. The general recommendation seems to be to ignore the recall unless your state requires the recall before registering/renewing the car.

The motor position resolver is part of that steering column assembly - what I called the drive unit replying to your post in RT.


https://demos.starbase7.net/t3Portal...0275102ZX.html

From Random

As I said this is way beyond me as the cars I used to work on all the time only sensors were the driver.
From the looks of the manual there are at least 6 different sensors involved with the steering. Each of those sensors have between 2 and 6 possible failure modes. Add all the wiring, the control module and actual moving parts into the mix and an intermittent failure is almost impossible to identify through guess work.
To go back to what has been said I do not think you can diagnose this without capturing the failure codes with Techstream. There is just so much going on.

For example
"DESCRIPTION
The power steering ECU assembly receives vehicle speed signals from the skid control ECU via CAN communication. The power steering ECU assembly provides appropriate assisting force in accordance with the vehicle speed, based on the signals."
Your problem could be anyplace between a wheel speed sensor and the steering column. Even a loose or slightly corroded wire could be the issue. The only way to narrow it down would be to get the codes.

There was a big recall for the steering in Australia and all that was happening was that the position of some wires could cause small amounts of debris to create interference in the signal and the steering would cut out. No this does not apply to your car but that is how little it takes for the system to screw up. https://www.toyota.com.au/news/toyot...ted%20vehicles.

What I am confident in saying is that in all probability the motor is not the issue.

Now that you have everybody's attention we should probably take this discussion back to your failure tech thread so that if an answer is found it is not lost to posterity in the wastelands that are random thoughts.

...and DO NOT let them tear apart your perfectly good engine.

Thanks @Ultramaroon @pope and @Tcoat for all the help in the this and the other thread yesterday.


I have gone ahead and ordered to EPS steering motor + ' column ECU ' from this listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/293700450530 . For posterity for all of you in the internet future, I will attach a screenshot of this Ebay listing so you can visually see the two pieces that I ordered. I am not 100% sure this is for a push-button start, like my car is, so if it is the wrong part, I will add that to my next follow-up after I receive the parts.



I've asked the seller to reach out to me so I can provide a label for next day shipping, so I can get it in before the weekend -- we'll see what happens with that request.


Depending on when I get the parts, I'll provide some follow-up. Plan is to install both, hopefully have the failure scenario presented by @pope (EPS works but new warning lights come on, no traction control, etc), and then will take it to the dealer for calibration with techstream.



I am sure I will be back with questions on how to pull the EPS motor, but there is another thread relating to pulling the EPS motor that is on Page 1 of this thread and it includes detailed instructions for doing it to get rid of a rattle, so I'm hopeful I can follow along and get both pieces replaced by myself.



At the sage advice of my advisors on this topic, I will be asking the dealer to NOT complete the valve spring recall, either when I take it in for techstream calibration or when I fail at this fix and tell them to go ahead with the steering column replacement.



Thanks again for the help everyone, sorry for being a bit of a pest (of course, only when I need something) in the daily thread.

Link to service manual in my sig line. Good luck!

@BrettRS I haven’t dealt with the steering ecu, so I can’t speak to its interchangeability, but the lower column/motor is (or should be) the same regardless of ignition type. Only the internal catch point for the steering lock in the upper half varies between key and keyless cars. If you are careful with positioning/alignment (and lucky) while you reconnect the various splines you might even get away with not needing to recalibrate the steering center.

Car-part.com is another resource for finding used parts locally. There may be a junkyard near you with the part you need.

Minor update...I was working on the Fiat last night for hours and had to clear the driveway to get it out of the garage. First time I've started the BRZ since I drove home from the dealership on Tuesday was last night.



When I started it to clear the driveway, noticed to EPS warning light didn't come on and had steering, but I've had that happen for a few seconds before so didn't think anything of it. Stopped working on the Fiat around 10PM and pulled it back into the garage (OOOK, FINE, WE HAD TO PUSH IT INTO THE GARAGE!).



Started the BRZ up to pull it into the driveway. Again, no EPS warning light, pulled it into the driveway and let it run in the driveway for 10 minutes and had a snack.



Came back out expecting to see the EPS warning light return. No light though. Decided to back it out of my driveway and take it through the neighborhood. Drove around my neighborhood and all it's tight turns for around 8-9 minutes. No EPS warning light, still had power steering.


Parked it at 10:30 last night and decided if I had no warning light in the morning, I was going to drive it into the office and see if I was able to get the EPS light to come back and lose power steering. 15 minutes later at 7:45AM this morning, I turned the car off at the office, never lost power steering, still no warning lights.



So, somehow, it has gone from a constant failure to 'fixed' (I know it isn't fixed) from the time I drove it home from the dealership without power steering until I started it 2.5 days later in my driveway. Never unhooked the battery or anything. Didn't get rain or anything...nothing changed.



I'm kind of shook now. I think I'll drive it over the weekend as much as I can, have my GF keep driving the truck, and see if I can get the EPS light to come back and see if I can make it lose power steering again. Because there's no chance I am tearing into it to replace the EPS motor and column ECU if I can't get it to fail again. So need to get it to fail again before the parts arrive next Tuesday (vendor wouldn't expedite shipping for me).


I'll keep y'all abreast on any failures I can get out of it again...

Looks more and more like a communication issue someplace. Maybe that dead spider finally fell out of a connector!

Lol yeah, there are a few other threads on this forum where people suggest inspecting / reseating a few of the steering column connectors when people experience EPS failure. When I have some daylight and some time this weekend, I'll go back to those threads and identify the connectors they were saying to inspect and check them out. Maybe I'll find a burnt connector housing or something, will report back and results.

Well, I drove it a lot this weekend. No more EPS failures or warning lights.



Not sure what to do at this point, other than tell GF to be careful driving and let me know if EPS light ever comes on again.

It'll come on again. Classic electrical intermittent. Lack of use coupled with daily slight thermal cycling and the connection re-establishes itself. It'll fail again with some jostling. Super frustrating.

Or.... the dead spider fell out. Not even joking. Have had it happen. Poor spider.

Legitimate possibility. Based on the diagnosis, I suggest inspecting this area on the failing unit. I haven't disassembled one - @ermax - but this looks suspiciously like an interface for a rotary encoder, or a syncro resolver. Might get lucky.
https://i.imgur.com/lvDsxC6.jpg

Where I’m from and in the field of work I do, we call that “Earwig Syndrome”.
Earwigs (pincher bugs) would crawl between electrical contacts for warmth and when it was time to start the motor, they would keep the contacts from properly closing, initiating a service call. Sometimes they would burn up in the process.