Pedders Top Hats - Add camber without sacrificing wheel clearance
 

Currently rocking a shock and spring combo (Oem shocks/TRD springs) and was looking for a way to add camber without hitting the shock perch with wide wheels (~17x9 +40). Traditional camber bolts would push the wheel closer to the strut, however top hats let you add camber without sacrificing any inner wheel clearance. (because you are moving the shock and upright at the same time)

After looking at the many choices around the $300-$650 range, I stumbled upon the Pedders top hats on this forum (for around $140 shipped instead for the pair). Similar in design to the whiteline com c (which many here notoriously claimed to have noise issues, causing the part to be delisted for our platform) I decided to give the Pedders a shot.

https://i.imgur.com/PRlVJ2m.jpg


Install was fairly straightforward/easy if you have the right tools. I used the " A simpler spring/strut install DIY -- no compressor needed" DIY from this forum, and with a pass through socket and allen socket, removing the top nut is super easy.

One thing I will say is make sure you lift both sides and remove the shock bolt from both sides simultaneously, I forgot this and tried doing one side at at time, but the opposite side still bolted up didnt give me enough clearance to pull the shock in and out easy. Once I did the other side the sway bar tension lessened and it was much easier.

https://i.imgur.com/P9ZJm2N.png

Impressions: The camber/caster gain is super noticeable right way. Instantly the car could dive in more confidently, and the front had way more grip through corners. As far as any noise or other issues, so far so good after a few short test drives (*knock on wood*). One thing I was surprised was the suspension up front actually felt more compliant, where as before sharp bumps were very jarring, now it seems like the shocks are able to absorb the bumps easier (maybe a bi-product of the mounts being stiffer lets the shocks do their job more). This could be a placebo but it seemed smoother to me.

Overall for the price I would definitely recommend the product. Its a very OEM + modification, giving you camber/caster while retaining the OEM look and feel. Also I read these can be paired with the lower bolts to add even more camber to a shock/spring combo set up. Another upgrade over OEM design is using a sealed bearing, which theoretically should do a better job keeping dirt/grime out.

https://i.imgur.com/atVci2V.png

Thanks. I may well spring (NPI) for these when I replace the struts.

You also get more caster too.

I'm testing these right now on my car...so far so good. When holding them in your hands, you can see how the design is improved over the old Whiteline Com C top mounts. There is a little angle on the bearing which I think is helpful. We don't carry these yet but might soon.

- Andrew

When you say "might," is it because the votes are still out on some aspect? I've been casually thinking about something like this for a few years. Never knew about the Whiteline offering. Sounds like I dodged a bullet.

Are you testing with a schedule in mind, or is it more wait-and-see? I'm pretty stoked.

COM-Cs definitely made bad noises, annoying.



Hopefully Pedders' design does not have the same issue. The pricepoint/feature combo on this is pretty good for someone not wanting to buy at the top end and needing total adjustment capability, more caster/camber definitely will improve handing.

I've been considering these when I go to B6s. It'll either he these or the STI group N mounts.

Any idea how much caster it gains?



I put it some front lower control arm bushings from whiteline and ran into a minor (but annoying) fitment issue due to the way the anti-lift/caster bushing is mounted. Since the axis of the front bushing has been raised, the entire LCA sits a bit higher than factory bushing. This causes the bolt end of the endlink to be that much closer to the LCA. Then you might(by you, I mean me) get contact and noises..



Turn in feels more eager with all else equal vs stock. And I suppose an easy solution would just to replace the endlinks with shorter ones. But if these pedders offer similar gain in caster angle without the fitmet issue with factory end links, it might be a better option for those looking for a "OEM++" mod without the adjustability or the extra noises.

https://external-content.duckduckgo....jpg&f=1&nofb=1

Unfortunately I do not have any before/after alignment data, a little bit of searching shows these cars might have around low to mid 5 degrees stock, and around 6 degrees with these top mounts. My assumption would be they are good for around .5-.75 degrees of caster, but that is purely speculative, hopefully some of the other gurus in here have better data. As far as camber one user stated on here that pedders quoted around a .75 camber gain, putting these around 1.5 degrees with stock bolts, and around 2.0 degrees with camber bolts in addition to these (again just speculation from what ive read on here)

It would seem these have around a similar caster gain to those, without the end link downside. I didnt notice if these moved the endlink closer to any components, but no obvious or noticeable rubbing of those components has been reported by myself or the others with these top hats. Next time I have a wheel off I can take a better look and see about any changes. There is also the possibility that the strut upper location being moved further towards the back/inner of the chassis puts more tension or stress on the factory end links, but again no issues there have been reported or noticed as of now.

I would be curious if these top hats can be paired with those whitelines to get even more caster (even if you need a shorter end link) but I am not sure how much more caster would be an advantage or disadvantage on this chassis. Maybe RCE can chime in?

Someone posted alignment results in another thread.

I only say "might" because we got a lot going on right now lol. I have to take these mounts off soon and put OEMs back on for another project...and then I'll put them back on for some more testing. They've also been backordered for a bit so it wasn't top of our list.

- Andrew

Send them to me. I'll keep testing them for you.

Pedders Top Hats - Add camber without sacrificing wheel clearance
 

Pedders top hats give about half a degree of caster and about .75 degrees of camber (YMMV)

First pic is of stock hats, with Subaru OEM cam bolts.

Second pic is with Pedders hats, and one set of Whiteline cam bolts (lower).

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...32ea0ab2a2.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3578d23a56.jpg


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been rocking these on OEM 17 struts with RCE Yellows and camber bolts. I got -2.3 front and between-2.1 and -2.2 rear with LCAs, and these. So far no complaints. Its a gateway mod to full coils and full camber adjustment with the top hats.

Beautiful.

To a future reader who's just starting to explore non-OEM alignment for these cars: -2.3º camber in is not a lot.
It's certainly better than zero, and might be just enough for the street,
but if you care about camber (HPDE, AutoX, etc.) you might want to target 3º or even more camber.

As another data point, with SPC camber bolts alone (SPC 81305, available on Amazon) I got ~1.75º camber in the front.
Combined with "about a full degree of camber" from these top hats, looks like we're getting into the ~2.75º territory.
As correctly mentioned in the first post, you probably won't be able to effectively use camber bolts with wheels like 17x9 +40 though.

Just FYI, going back to back with stock top mounts on the same exact suspension set up...0 change in ride height (as expected, but just wanted to be super sure). Also I feel like the stock mounts are a tiny tiny bit more compliant but it's not that noticeable. The added camber and caster are very noticeable and the stock alignment is no fun.

Yeah I'd say -2.3 degrees is plenty for the street and great for backroads fun and "light" autox or track use...meaning you're out to have fun but making some compromises because you're also daily driving the car. You'd want more camber for the real sticky tires and/or to be faster.

I think that's the real target for these tops...for more dedicated track use you'll want adjustable camber plates. You could get just over -3 degrees with these on RCE Tarmac 2s or KWs with the OEM 14mm upper bolt though.

- Andrew

Thanks, Andrew. I was going to ask about that. All other things equal, moving the bearing off center in the isolator, I was wondering how much more of the high frequency stuff would get through.

The other factor could be these top hats used with a true coilover vs a oem shock/spring combo. Shouldnt be too different, but at least on my oem shock/spring combo there was very little difference between OEM top hat and these, as I mentioned in my OP I almost feel the suspension is more compliant with the new top hats, but its very hard to tell.

The other way to look at these is the price per performance aspect. Camber bolts win here if all you care about is camber, but camber + caster these come in at half the cost of the cheapest adjustable top hats, and around 1/4 cheaper then the higher end top hats. For those drivers that just like to get a modest upgrade maybe for a spirited daily or light auto x / track (as RCE mentioned) that arent trying to max their camber out and have full adjustability, for the price these are a solid upgrade imo.

100%. I'd totally get these if I was building a street-only car and didn't already have coilovers.

Just wanted to give a reference point for people who actually do plan to do AutoX/track that these hats, even with camber bolts, might not be enough.

That's a great data point!

Here are my alignment specs. I plan to use these for a season and as I get better as a driver some T2's, KWv3, similar quality coils are in my future.

Exactly my goal. I'm hoping to address the steady-state understeer with the smallest scalpel I can possibly use. I have a second set of stock dampers I will slot for the rest. My alignment guy is not a fan of camber bolts so I'm hoping to win some extra goodwill by following his advice. :D

I looked into getting a set of these as they're backordered.
I sent pedders an email and got a response today that their shipment won't be in til the end of May.

I bought these three weeks ago. I got one through FT86 speed, it arrived and i realized it wasn't sold as a set :bonk: and was able to grab one more from ebay just as everyone started listing as back ordered.

I haven't thrown them on yet. With the eibach pro-kit lowering springs, bottom strut bolt to top bolt, and SPC 14mm new bottom bolt, I was able to get to -2.4* camber. I am hoping this puts me at -3* or more, I'll report back once I get them in.

My car is 99% DD but I do take it to the track and autocross from time to time. There is no question with RS4s I am currently under-cambered. I don't have the need to go full adjustability and coils and spend $2500 on decent stuff. My goal was to do a mild, budget build to see what the car could do. At NJMP Lighting, I was running high 1:17s, about on par with spec miata front runner lap times, so I'm pretty happy with that. Since then I've added a header, tune, and will be bolting these on, and hoping to find some more time. I think over adjustability is an unneeded and not-well-understood issue for many people, and I liked that these keep NVH at bay too. I'll report back in May when I get back on track.

Try ebay sellers, I emailed ftspeed, pedders and an ebay seller. Surprisingly the ebay seller said their supplier had some in stock and I was able to get them despite the backorder.

I have the same sentiment, i've had fully adjustable stuff in the past and I end up never touching it anyway or becomes more of a burden having to worry about setting it up and adjusting it. Some might like to always be tweaking their set ups and optimizing, for me the ease of not having to touch or worry about it is nice as well.

its become a big marketing push with coilovers as well having "32 adjustments" when in reality there's only like 5-10 clicks that actually do something.

Thanks for the tip. Just checked and there was only one left via eBay. :lol:
$130 shipped per. Damn you CAD.

Agreed, all that "32 WAY ADJUSTABLE!!!" is just marketing bs. Don't get me wrong, full adjustability in height, rebound and compression has its place, and for those looking for tenths and know what adjustments to make, it's worth it. For street, it's not needed (caveat - high end dampers that have true soft and hard settings).





Anyway, threw these in today. Super easy install, took about 30 minutes all in. And they got me basically exactly as advertised - I went from -2.4* to -3.2*. With my allseasons on and an easy drive to home cheapot, there wasn't a huge difference in feel, but should get me where I need to be on track.

Installed Pedders, along with B6 & Yellow springs. Front camber is L -1.34°, R -1.78°, without crash or camber bolts. Preloaded everything to maximum camber direction before tightening, to take advantage of normal clearances.

Would you be able to upload some pics? I just wanna see how the car looks with the B6 and RCE Yellows. TIA!

I'll try this weekend.

Is it possible to only gain camber with these? (Without caster gain)

No.


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A little more caster isn't a bad thing though. My FWD Golf RUNS more caster from the factory.

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Normally not, but I think it might make the EPS steering cut issue worse on our cars.

Do all GT86s have the EPS issue? Or only certain years? Mine's a MY01/2018.

Then you should have no problems. It was improved/fixed .. i don't recall when exactly, was it ~ MY2015 or MY2017 restyle, but your, as restyle one, shouldn't have it for certain.

Think it was for the 2017s or later, I have a friend with a 2016 that has the EPS cut problem on track.

For anyone that had these a while ago, how are they lasting? Holding up well a year+ later?

Pedders Top Hats - Add camber without sacrificing wheel clearance
 

Pulled em off because they weren’t legal in my class, but they held up great! Highly recommended

I still have the set


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I've had them on since 2020. No problems so far. About 20 000km.