Transmission upgrade options for stock power and track only use?
 

4th gear just ate first gear so I'm in need of a new trans. I know they're cheap, but I'd rather not deal with downtime, especially at track events.

Is there an upgrade available at a reasonable price for stock-ish (bolt ons) power level?

Car is a dedicated track car.

I think your only real cheap option is sending your gearset to be cryo treated.
May be worth the headache, may not be. There's a set of synchros you can put in, but who knows if they'll do anything to help this issue.

Apparently Jack's Transmissions has something that might help: https://www.jackstransmissions.com/t...-frs-brz-parts

For three grand Jack's will build you a tranny that should last with NA power. Full disclosure - I do not have one and don't know anyone who does. That said, I sometimes think about doing it just because it sounds really cool.

Edit: I'm thinking I may do this when I replace the inevitable TOB/clutch.

The big issue that the OP seems to have experienced is the issue with the 4th gear circlip. Jack’s transmissions build fixes this. Though to be honest you can buy a lot of spare transmissions for 3k.

Can also learn to not dump the clutch. That's free.

Eh, with shipping it’s $1500 for a low mileage used one? Plus labor?
I wasted a good amount of coin taking the day off, driving to the track and not being able to drive. That doesn’t count the instructor.

I don’t dump the clutch. I can drive stick- thanks

Anytime

I guess that depends on what you consider low mile and if you are a DIY'er. I can buy what I consider reasonable mile transmissions for around 5-600. R&R is about 3 hours. It seems like usage is more of an issue then millage with the issues with these transmissions but it sounds like a build is a better option for you anyway.

I know our transmissions arent exactly the toughest out there, but out of about 10 cars that do track and time attack regularly with bolt-ons (so stockish power levels) for several years already I've seen 0 cases of transmissions braking in any way. Synchros degrade and some gears get crunchy on some of them but never total failure. Somehow you managed to break yours, but im inclined to say that just sourcing a used (but in good shape) replacement will be cheaper and you should not expect to break it again, it is not at all common (look at this forum, look at other people around you at thet track on the same car).

That's what I'm saying. Stock power? They're fine if they aren't abused.

OP's original request is pretty straightforward. He's looking for a more bullet proof transmission. I don't see any reason to cast aspersions his way for this.

I think what many of you are saying is that he may have run into a rarely infrequently occurring issue for a NA car. Makes sense to me.

I think the reason we're seeing prices being so high is more a result of supply and demand than anything else. It sounds like the stock transmission should be reliable enough for almost NA uses under appropriate operation.

For the power levels these cars offer, these types of upgrades are very overpriced. IMO, that's because they either aren't necessary so very few builders offer them making them one off or our particular community of owners are very willing to overpay for something that other platforms just expect to be standard. Either way, in this case it looks like there is one option to resolving the apparent issue.

Personally I wouldn't spend the $6k that is listed on Jack's website for a transmission upgrade of any kind if I'm not actually racing the car door to door (and even then I'm not sure I would). Even half that is too expensive too. Based on some of the things I've seen about this car, if you built this drivetrain to what is a basic level of something like the stock LS platform power levels you're going to invest almost as much as one of these cars are worth used. That's crazy IMO.

I'd say that we answered it in a pretty straight forward manner. The upgrade is also 3k, not 6k. I think the OP would likely go this route just for piece of mind based on his posts.

Yep, I think you all did. I mentioned 6k because their website shows one of the major upgrades as costing 6k.

Before I’d spend 6k on a gear set for the stock trans, I’d spend 5k for a CD009. You’re not* going to break a CD009 with an FA20.

*Not easily anyway.

The CD009 isn’t a direct drop in and after buying the additional parts it’s well over 5K is it not?

the 5k price includes a new CD009, mounts, bellhousing, carbon drive shaft, etc... the listing description says it’s everything needed minus clutch, clutch fork, throw-out bearing, but it says you reuse your stock throw out, fork, pressure plate, and flywheel, and just need a nissan spline clutch disc.

I believe there is also (i want to say) a 3k kit option that does not include the transmission, so you’d have to source that on your own and do the necessary machining yourself.

I have no association with mazworx and I have not used this swap, I have just seen this discussed previously.

https://www.mazworx.com/mazworx-favq...t-frs/brz.aspx

WRL teams swap them out preemptively after each race. This one lasted a good 50-60 hours of hard track time, so I can't complain much.

I guess the decision is really 45k mile trans for $800 or $3k upgrade.

Thanks for the help!

Whoa, I can get a 1 year square trade warranty for $50 on an ebay trans? :lol:
Has anyone done this?

I've definitely used autozone rotors and get new ones every few track days back in the day, but this would be pretty awesome.

Nobody's casting aspersions. Driver mod should always be considered and I'm still hard over in that camp here. Many of us think we're better than we actually are. This transmission responds well to being babied through its weaknesses. I also argue that this "babying" is good technique for smooth driving in general.

I think if GS is getting 40-50 track hours of a transmission and he's willing to replace it often, then great.

But every car has a weakness of some type that a driver needs to work around or find themselves replacing that part often (or worse, crashing). Many manual transmission are pretty flimsy when in the hands of the ham fisted. I personally think the 86 trans should last hundreds of track hours.

Back when I instructed, "how to shift without breaking things" was a typical conversation even with seasoned students. "If you grabbed your dog like you grabbed your shifter, your dog would bite you too!" and my other favorite "There's no lap time to be gained by shifting faster than the components will allow."

Amen. Thanks, Rice. Exactly where I was going with it. Mechanical sympathy is a wonderful skill to develop.

How would you propose I change my shifting behaviors to make this a reality, even in a NA car?

My fluid typically drains out grey, with even just 2 track hours on it.

Dear Mike:
Please stop shifting wrong. Start shifting right. That will solve your problem.
Glad I could help,
Pat

Not bronze? Magnet will capture everything that comes from the parts that would break. What's wearing?

Good question.

It's a bit beyond my personal knowledge, but I've sent off some grey samples for UOA.

The magnet has light paste, but is not grabbing everything in the fluid for sure; it may just be the lack of swirl.

All I know is this is very common for tracked cars in california, both north and south.

It is not a good sign when your car starts making it's own never seize.

I know you're being rhetorical Mike but just in case...

1: Shift slower and shift less. Just like racing a car with not enough brakes - you have to adapt and brake less. If these trannies break by shifting like track-day-heroes then maybe stop trying to be a hero.

2: I think you have something wrong if your tranny fluid is grey after 2 hours. Either internally or you're introducing way too much heat and cooking it. Even without my front pipe wrapped, my Pennzoil Synchromesh wouldn't blacken/grey until after 3-4 race weekends. Front pipe is wrapped so this season I'll run it for 3 weekends and drain and see how the wrap helps. But just like our differentials, driver side inner CV joints, and coil packs - our exhaust is cooking things.

I have come to the conclusion that the best transmission upgrade for track use is to swap in a k24.

Lol, I'm not going to shift less. I'm not absolutely jamming gears, but it's a damn race car. I'm going to shift. This is one of the reasons why I bought a BRZ, so I'm paying for BRZ parts if the break rather than Corvette or Viper parts
I've driven plenty of cars on the track before- both with more power and with high level instructors. I've never had a trans problem nor have I ever been told I shift too fast or too often for the car.

The trans will wear. It happens. It's not due to "shifting wrong." JFC.

His response was to someone who specifically asked him to make recommendations based on a symptom. Your issue sounds like it is the known, but not common issue with thrust load taking off the circlip that holds on 4th gear, totally different. Reading comprehension, JFC.

While the internet can be a snarky place and clearly some people have had some fun at your expense - you're not being attacked. I understand your defensive position.

The fact of the matter is, that your shifting may be perfectly adequate in your previous cars but if you're getting 40 hours of your tranny and I'm getting 140+ out of mine without the wear - then maybe the issue isn't the tranny. Perhaps your shifting is just fine, but something small needs to be modified to work around an inherent weakness.

However, my overall point did give you the benefit of the doubt as it assumes the driver is doing everything right (that's you btw) and the transmission is just a weak point on the car therefore the driver needs to adapt around the weak point, or simply accept the reality of tighter replacement intervals for said component. The 4th gear thing hasn't affected me yet and I'm not sure why and it may be because not how I upshift, but how I down shift; I never downshift quickly with very rare exception because grabbing the wrong gear in a downshift is undesirable and aggressively downshifting doesn't improve laptimes. Which leads to my next point: Shifting Less.

You can shift less on your down shifts. Many people downshift through every gear - these are not sequential boxes so there's rarely a need for this and it doesn't improve lap times. In braking zones where you drop more than 1 gear (5th to 3rd, 4th to 2nd); since you're under braking and have plenty of time to pick the gear, you can easily heel-toe(dbl clutch)-rev-match directly into that gear softly, you don't have to engage every gear. If you have 3 corners on a track that require you to drop more than 1 gear, then this is 3 fewer shifts per lap and it's not a detriment to lap time.

Just attempting to learn and understand.

How does shifting itself cause excessive wear? I can certainly see how shifting frequently and the related increase in RPMs for downshifts would increase stress. Does the increased stress come from increased heat or is it something else? Is the only way to combat the increased stress on the components is to replace them with higher duty components?

I'm with Grand Sport on this one though. Shifting style and driving style certainly do have an impact understandably but I'm struggling to believe that any of us have enough difference of style on the track to drive such significantly different duty cycles for our transmissions.

Could this be something as simple as a difference in gear oil for the transmission? I've seen it be a difference maker for other transmission types, why not this one too?

So, I've tried both shifting more and less, and shifting fast and slow.

The wear and failure always seems to be case warpage and the shafts, rather than my synchros or gears.

Just, frustrating.

Can't complain too much since used gearboxes are a dime a dozen, at least for now.

Syncro wear. The harder you work the trans, the more load you are putting into them and the harder they have to work.

The issue with 4th is a design flaw.

[QUOTE=CSG Mike;3408804]So, I've tried both shifting more and less, and shifting fast and slow.

The wear and failure always seems to be case warpage and the shafts, rather than my synchros or gears.

Just, frustrating.

Can't complain too much since used gearboxes are a dime a dozen, at least for now.[/QUOTE
Maybe we should find someone like McCleod to make a bellhousing to allow us to use a T56 in our cars so that we can make it cost a million dollars or something. :slap:

Transmission upgrade options for stock power and track only use?
 

If GS encountered the circlip bug it’s related to thrust and could simply be from rushed downshifts thrusting the stack popping the circlip. If you drop the clutch it will thrust in one direction, when engine braking it will thrust the other direction. If you do really aggressive rushed downshifts it no doubt thrusts hard enough to pop the clip. A lot of cars tend to under engineer for negative loads. I used to grenade clutches on my Integra all the time on downshifts and it was due to the drive straps on the pressure plate not being designed to handle negative loads very well (straps were only tied in one direction). I had a local shop take the straps off three broken pressure plates and combine them onto one of them and never broke a clutch again. The average person rarely or never downshifts so they tend to cut corners.

I’ve watched rice’s entire race at the SCCA runoffs and one thing that caught my attention is he tends to get most of the braking out of the way and does one giant blip to downshift two to three gears all at once. Our gears are so close that it’s hard to change down through all of them when threshold braking without miss matching frequently.

If you know how to double clutch (which rice mentioned so he most likely does) and don’t under blip (for example you blip to 5K but the target gear needs 7k) or rush downshifts there is little wear on the transmission.

^^ this is exactly what I'm talking about. Thrust loads are not the end of the world but when exacerbated by the shock of loading through all the combined driveline slack, the hammering takes its toll. I've noticed, in my case, most of the slack is actually in the outer CV joints.


But we've made the point. OP has his mind set on buying stuff.

Can't say anything in regards to OP's problem, but just like rice_classic very respectfully noted, people tend to judge others behavior as due to their character/personality rather than outside circumstances. classic Fundamental Attribution Error.

Not saying, OP's transmission woes are directly his fault or not, but I'd be pretty pissed if I came to the forum with a tranny problem and my first response is "stop dumping your clutch lmao".

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