Trying to decide between an ND Miata, upcoming BRZ, or Civic si
 

Hello, I'm looking into getting one of these as a first car. I'd say the Miata is my overall favorite but my main concern with it is practicality and usability in the winter since I prefer the soft top. I'm located in New York so there will be snow and it will be cold in the winter, so I'm not sure if the soft top is enough. I don't plan on carrying too much stuff but I'm not sure if space is enough as well. The upcoming brz and si are also 2 contenders that may be more practical than the Miata. With the BRZ, my concern is reliability and availability. With the upcoming si, I don't know enough but I'm going to consider it a safe option for now. Depending on availability or reviews, I may also consider getting one from this year. I'm not really looking for speed in a straight line, more along the lines of a light and quick car coming out of turns that's fun. I guess my top priorities go Fun>Reliable>Practical. I also plan to do some light mods such as a tune, cold air intake, exhaust, etc. My budget is somewhere around 30k but it's flexible. If you guys could give any suggestions or advice it would be greatly appreciated

Honda imo is the best daily driver of the 4.

first car? new york? if you're young, i would check insurance rates against any/all vehicles you consider. a brand new '14 brz was cheaper insurance-wise than a used '08 infiniti g35 when i was looking...

as far as recommendations,

Honda Fit.

can be a riot if you get a manual, it'll be super cheap to insure, plenty of ways to mod if you want, and you could street park it where door dings don't matter as much.

BRZ and reliability don't belong in the same sentence. Absolutely love the ND but not practical as the primary car. The SI is not bad. Lots of mods out there, very reliable and FWD for easy winter driving

Honda if you don't mind FWD. The BRZ isn't a great car to get if you're not sure you want RWD, especially when you're driving in the snow

If you're ok with the ND then it's my favorite. I've never tried but i dont THINK i'd want one as my primary car. I have a hard time accidentally hitting the gas/brakes when i don't want to with my size 14 flippers and it's just so, so small.

What are you people doing to them? I tracked the shit out of mine on r-spec tyres and it didn't even use oil. Worst thing was one of the steering rack bolts came a bit loose, so I tightened them up.

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For what it's worth, I think these cars are incredibly reliable, until you start modifying the internals of the engine. Not quite sure where he's coming from. I pounded the hell out of my car for about 35k miles in all conditions (even at negative 20 degrees Fahrenheit) with no issue at all until I had the recall done.

I saw one of these the other day. Looks pretty nice. (For a FWD).
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/veloster-n

You just have to go drive each of them (when possible) and check out the features and space in person.

Avoid the 2016 ND as they have transmission issues. Haven't had a single issue with my 2015 BRZ yet and I beat the snot out of it on the daily. Honda is always a safe bet but are boring.

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Since it's your first car, you should really get something FWD and practical like the Civic SI.

But honestly putting myself in your shoes, I can't in good faith say I'd get it over a light RWD sports car like the BRZ or ND2. So get one of those two and drive responsibly, knowing that you are incredibly blessed getting one for your first car. Whatever money you were planning to use for mods, save that for gas, snow tires, and insurance. I'd say a BRZ is probably the best balance of fun, reliability and practicality if it's going to be your only car.

I voted Si based on your stipulations.

The Miata and BRZ (depending) will come with summer rubber, so you'd have to swap those out right off the bat.

Si is most practical and the best "first car" of the lot.

If it's just you and one other passenger (so no need for 2+2 layout), I'd go ND2 RF so you get the best of both worlds: convertible life in the summer (you won't realize how amazing this is until you try it) and hard-top security wherever you park (plus protection from the elements in the winter).

With winter tires (which you should buy regardless of what car you choose) RWD is absolutely fine (if not desirable for the fun factor) in winter climates and snow (I drove my BRZ for 3 years in Toronto, including bi-weekly 250km commutes in the snowbelt).

The higher redline and improved power of the ND2 seal it for me - in stock form, it would outperform my S2000 while also having a better interior.

Is there a reason you aren't considering WRX or GTI?

I've owned both a ND1 (2017) and my current FRS (2015). Given you're in NY w/ snow I would think you would want a RF not a softtop..

I'll give you pros and cons of both and it really comes down to your living situation and other factors I can't answer for you.

86

Pros:
Quieter
More Spacious / Functional
More Theft Proof (vs softtop)
Transport 3rd human being in a pinch
Better for long roadtrips
Steering is phenomenal
Doesn't need roll bar for track
Ample headroom

Cons:
Need a 17+ for bulletproof engine
TOB issues on earlier models
Avoid 2013 like the plague
Avoid 2013-2014 for coilpack issues
Feels slow man (stock)
Subaru build quality
Suspension is not fully adjustable
Clutch feel blows

ND

Pros:
Feels more visceral
More Fun
Feels fast
Quick enough
Clutch feels is amazing
Mazda build quality <3
300 lbs lighter?
Fully adjustable suspension
Double wishbone
Bespoke performance platform (no sedan underpinnings)

Cons:
Loud
Impractical
Small, do not recommend for taller than 5' 10"
Need 2019+ for telescoping steering wheel
Get the 2019+ for that sweet sweet engine update
Less storage, although trunk is impressive for what it is (IMO)
Steering feels overboosted, lack of feedback (my experience from a 2016 & 2017, may have been fixed)
Need rollbar for HPDE goodness


A big thing if you want to HPDE a ND that no one talks about is, if you want to clear an aftermarket rollbar in that car and you are average height you will need an aftermarket seat as well to get low enough. Which means losing side airbags and going to a fixed bucket and also potentially losing sliders (front/aft adjustment). Which isn't great for a daily/dual use car. This is a big reason I switched to a 86 car. Also for the price of a ND you can get a used 86 and slap a supercharger on it and still have play money left over.

Trying to decide between an ND Miata, upcoming BRZ, or Civic si
 

OP it sounds like a WRX is more practical for you since it snows where you live.

I have a stock 2012 wrx, I’m the original owner, with 110k miles with zero problems. The only thing I had to replace was my clutch at 82k miles. It still drives the same at 9 miles in the clock until now.

With some good blizzacks winter tire, the awd will hook up like no other. I highly recommend it since it is inside your budget. The four door practicality and ample space is nice. I have a 2” inch hitch I use to haul trailers and a roof rack system. Also it’s a great DD.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...8d15b069bd.jpg



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If you prefer the Miata but are worried about winter usability, why not consider the RF? It’s a convertible when you want it to be, and (almost) a coupe when you need it to be. You are comparing it to dedicated coupes/non-convertibles anyway. Even if you insist on soft top, there are removable hard tops you can use in winter, although my understanding is the ND generation aftermarket hard top options are limited.

My suggestion is test drive them all, then decide which provides you the best mix of fun and practicality within your budget. They’re all good cars - you decide, you’re the one who has to live with it, not random posters on a forum. ;)

BRZ and add snow tires.

Light affordable RWD coupes are a rare breed and won't be around forever. Meanwhile, FWD economy cars will always exist.

Exactly why I avoided the recall work, too many horror stories on this site, plus not compulsory to re-register the car in Australia.

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What part of NY?


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Yeah not sure I agree with this. I see you have a 2013 which may explain some of this, but realistically the 2015+ cars are really reliable all things considered. If you keep it NA that is...

I test drove some '17 and '18 Si and BRZs when I was last shopping for a daily. (I wound up with an Infiniti Q50, soo..... LOL)
For an 'only car', I would pick the Si due to the practicality. it's a larger car with more interior room and you can actually put more than a backpack in the rear seats. The FWD will help with snow as well. Plus Honda reliability. And it's still a fun ride. Because of the turbo, it had more scoot in Houston traffic than a BRZ, and unless you're insistent on drifting in empty parking lots, you won't really miss the RWD because the Civic handles pretty well.

All three are fun cars to drive and reliable when you don't mod the s*** out of them, but you are sacrificing interior room for RWD if you pick BRZ or ND. They both make a great second car, IMO.

This is a tough question MeepSecurity. Being from Texas, our weather definitely sees a lot less salt and snow than in NY. So take some of my input with a grain of salt for what I would prefer for a first car.

I think you should value a fun Daily Driver that has enough space for your usage. As most people said, you should always keep the GTI and the WRX in your search for a good deal. Most new cars post 2014+ are built with modern amenities and should be fine for reliability following updates for most automakers with the OEM suppliers and designs.

Keep your operating costs low. Make sure your first car gets decent mileage, as I guarantee having to constantly fill up your car will become more annoying than the performance you get when separating from traffic.

I honestly will be keeping my Forester for my Daily/Utility Vehicle while getting a Manual BRZ hopefully this year if Production can continue on schedule for Subaru. Other vehicles like the Hyundai Veloster N, a decently low-mileage 2017+ 370Z, or a Fiesta ST wouldn't be bad options to choose from. Never neglect to count out New Sales before 2022 models drop this Summer and Fall so make the most of the search. Good luck!

What makes the BRZ more practical than an ND the unusable rear seats?

Why not get a hardtop for the ND?
2019+ FBO E85 Tune looks like people are getting close to 190whp and cams putting them at 200whp on a car 400lbs lighter than a BRZ.

Rear seats, interior storage space (glove box, etc) and trunk space.

I'm still waiting for the new 86 before I make choice.

Yep! Rear seats are quite usable. When my kids were younger the whole family (me, wife, 2 kids, cross legged) would fit. We are not small people either, I'm 6'2" wife is 5'10. Now kids won't really fit all that well but I can still take them without the wife if I move the passenger seat up. Subaru did an excellent job figuring out usable space in this tiny car (we used to affectionately call it "clown car"). Put the seats down and you have a ton of storage. Sorry, hands down more flexible and practical than any Miata. I think the 86 looks a bit better too but just a matter of preference - I liked the older NB and NC models better than the ND.

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So useless rear seats that many people delete there so useless.

A bigger trunk but it’s not big enough to do anything special with compared to the Mx-5s, mx-5 is smaller but isn’t too small to not be usable. In my 86 I never even used the trunk once. Groceries always on passenger seat.

Interior storage is slightly more practical on the brz
But the mx-5 has a center rear locking glove box, and a storage cubby behind each seat, also enough space behind each seat to store a laptop bag / man bag.

Not a lot more the brz can do from a practical storage standpoint vs the mx-5 if you really break it down. On paper it is but in practice not as much.

Plus the mx-5 physically being smaller makes it easier to fit in tight parking spots, not worry as much about door dings having more space between vehicles, maneuvering around tight turns and roads. In that regard it’s more practical.

Don’t think OP has kids. I’d never want to put a kid in a car seat in the rear seats. Did it once, never again. Maybe a forward facing seat when they are about 2. Then I imagine by about 6-8 they’ll stop fitting. I hope if someone has kids they have a more practical car and this is a 2nd or 3rd car. And no grown adult should ever even attempt getting back there.

You can't fit your groceries in the trunk? Do you only go once a month?

In the FR-S, I've fit a 21 gal air compressor, 27" tool chest, 8 ft fence posts and dozens of pickets, engine hoist & engine stand, insulation batts, and I'm sure many other things.

The trunk is plenty big for 4 people's worth of groceries (weekly).
Although I know other people tend to buy multiple large cases of bottled water or other drinks, which I don't do. That I can understand take up space.


exactly.
While I don't normally transport people in the back seat, there's always flexibility to do so in a car with any type of back seats. It's comfortable enough for most every day car rides which are less than 30 minutes. I've also had someone back there on a 15hr car ride.
You can't even have the option to in a Miata

Yep! My 2016 is 75K miles and strong

THIS.

I'm guessing you mean the next gen Si? I believe they temporarily stopped making Si right now since they stopped the coupe.
Since you mention reliability, the thing you have to consider is the Si is turbo now. I know K engines are some of the best but the most recent Si had an L15 Turbo I believe. I'm not too familiar with this since I have not been looking at Hondas lately. You should check out some of the Honda forums and see what Si owners are saying about it.


I like the Miata a lot actually, but I'm not sure I would consider it. If I was gonna get another 2 seater car and a convertible, I'd get a used S2000 over the Miata. Since a car like this to me would be more fun than practical, I'd want to get one with better potential from the factory engine.

If I was in the market right now, from your choices, I would say 1)Next gen 86/BRZ 2)Next gen Si 3) Miata.

I ordered my FR-S with All Seasons. I'm on Toyota's site right now and you can get All Season tires. Depends on region though.
Not sure why Subaru only offers with Summer tires.

Go once a week typically in my mazda cx-5 which transports kids, people, and random things.

Typically weekly grocery trip for my week of food is 8+ bags. Which fit easily in passenger seat (if i actually took the 86) I can seatbelt 4-5 bags put heavy stuff wedged in footwell and use my hand to insure nothing is flying around. I could put in trunk but risk everything flying around, and its easy to put in passenger seat. Something you could do the same for the miata. (Mommy gets her and kids groceries herself usually costco trips in the cx-5)

Maybe I’m just a nice person, I would never subject a grown adult into fitting in the rear for any amount of time. At least with the miata it isn’t even an option so you don’t need to come off as a **** trying to explain how no one over 4ft tall should ever attempt to get in the rear unless they are masochist, you could avoid that discussion all together with a miata.

As far as everything you’ve fit in the trunk. Assuming based on this being his first car he is younger probably 16-20, no kids, and the need to transport all that stuff mentioned is probably rare to non existent. Several grocery bags and a few random gym bags, backpacks, laptop bags fit just fine in the miata (what most younger, none kid having people probably transport) and if you have kids and the 86/brz is your only car your priorities are probably not in line.

A lot of good adjectives I’d describe the 86/brz, practical is not one.

who's all these people deleting the rear seats? i've seen/talked to a number of 86 owners in my area, and none of them have deleted the rear seats...

i think you're confusing a california thing with the rest of the world.

I hate convertibles and would never buy a honda. So I would say a brz. Summer tires for 3 seasons and winter tires for the winter and it is awesome. Perfect car for a single guy.

lots of people have removed the rear seats. Although 2 reasonable sized people can fit one if front of the other just fine, I think I have used the back seats twice in 3 years. So I took them out. There is a ton more storage space now.

Me.
If you don’t delete the rear seat you may as well drive a civic.

I hate convertibles as well. But miata can hardtop.

The 2 times you used the back seat was it the only option avalanches?
Or was it something like people just wanting to check out the car and go for a ride, or other people drove to lunch the last 370 times so you said F it get in the back I’ll drive?

Only reason why I bought the FRS was because of the backseats... I was able to put car seats in them for my kids... Would have preferred the ND Miata any day, but I had to settle for the lesser car due to my kids... The FRS was also cheaper

It's not a California thing. It's a ricer thing cos u know... Weight reduction!

dead serious, if honda built a rwd stickshift 2 door civic, i would have bought it as long as it met my other requirement--that i could drive the vehicle for 1 week without the radio installed, and still have full usability of the hvac system and other vehicle functions.

but they didn't make the civic rwd, and last i checked, the civics radio is integral to other vehicle functionalities, so it's been nuked entirely off my possibility list.

i wanted a rwd stickshift 2 door car with a back seat. the back works great for groceries, emergencies, and holding my hat, sunglasses, and peppermint candies.

i don't see what the big deal is.

Sounds like if one has no kids. A miata is the way to go.