KPower Industries K24 swap
 

More pics and running videos are on their web and social media sites.

Uses OEM transmission pushed back 4" for NA application, FI will have a different solution..

The crank of the K24 is mounted 2.5" lower in the chassis than the FA20. FYI

Fluid full car with all OEM accessories functioning looses 141lbs from stock.

ECU solution looks is Haltech 1500

No pricing released just yet.
https://kpower.industries/blogs/news...ft86-swap-faqs
https://www.instagram.com/kpower.industries/
https://www.facebook.com/kmiata



Hype train dyno? Where can I buy tickets?

https://i.imgur.com/NezHB8q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/nn0Qphu.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/WavmlNu.jpg

I have been watching this for a while. They did a great job and it should be affordable.

Very exciting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You could use their swap kit and run the car off the stock ECU like @SolidSnake did.

I have seen them talking on their facebook page that they are looking into running the stock ecu for those in smog states.

This is sooooo exciting. Better start to hunt down a mint condition K24 and swap it in when the FA20 cooks.....haha.

I'm just amazed how Subaru managed to make an all-aluminum 4 cylinder weigh 140 lbs more than another all-aluminum 4 cylinder - both fully dressed.

For those that don't know, these guys make the "K Miata" kits in the Miata world and they know what they're doing. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind this kit will be of the highest quality. Not to mention, 17+ FA20's sell for $3,000+ while you can pick up a decent K24 for like $600 lol

Two cylinder heads, two set of cam shafts. The FA is a heavy motor for what it is. With 140lbs off the front end of the car, it’s going to bring balance closer to 50/50.

Don't forget the huge oil pan sub-assembly. Boxer crankshafts are usually quite a bit lighter though. I am a bit concerned with their use of the OE transmission.

Should take it from 55/45 to ~52.5/47.5...

Hafta admit this is tempting vs. just getting a '22!

Right? Cams, set of springs and retainers. 240-260whp and 8200RPM :burnrubber:

I dont see why the oem trans would be an issue. Even built K24s never get much over 190 lb/ft torque. For F/I they are using a different transmission option.

Guys are having syncro issues running the stock engine NA. Mine is starting to act up now after being fairly trouble free. Doesn't like to go down into 2nd and up into 5th as of the last year.

Hmm, how much of that is just due to milage or user error. Not saying you in can't drive properly.lol I suspect vast majority aren't having issue yah know.

Track day abuse, so I would say that falls in the user error category :D I can still get away with both those shifts if I am slow and deliberate with them. Driving on the street it is not that noticeable.

The only concern is drivability from a project car like this, you will always have to tinker. If it can be relatively problem free, this is a VERY attractive option. Maybe I don’t have faith in suby engines but I highly doubt the new FA24 is going to drive/perform better than the K24.

The amount tinkering is probably dependent on how far down the rabbit hole you go in the engine build. The K series aftermarket it amazing. You can build a near 300whp on 93oct in your garage. The lets be honest the FA24 will maybe/hopefully do near 230whp on E85 while a K24 does it with drop in cams on 91oct while saving 140lbs and more reliability.

I am sure the engine (K24) is going to be solid. It’s the supporting parts like wiring, fuel lines, custom mounts, engine management etc. With the transmission sitting 4 inches further back, you are likely looking at a custom driveshaft. Will that cause more vibrations? Longevity? Stuff like that.

The transmission is, I think, going to be at a very different angle vs stock. The stock engine sits very high, and at a significant angle, sloping downward going aft. K24 sits a lot lower, presumably closer to parallel with the ground. That would mean the stock diff will be oriented at the wrong angle (more nose-up) relative to the trans in the K24 swap. Hopefully this has been addressed and the trans output and diff input are parallel or very close to it...

In their pictures looks like they are using a one piece aluminum driveshaft and the diff is lower then the transmission.

You forget to mention that a 300whp K24's life is measured in hours.

IMO, the real purpose of this swap is to run a mild K24 for a long time, rather than to get a short life high output K24.

I didn't forget anything. I felt it wasn't needed. There was nothing particularly crazy with the 300whp builds as they were done with off the shelf parts and aren't even revving super high. Anyone seriously attempting one will see the pro-cons in their research and trials.

It's a bit misleading for those unfamiliar with the K.

Making the power is easy, but making big NA power is not sustainable, and does result in a not so street friendly powerband.

On the other hand, for someone who is willing to rebuild annually (fairly inexpensive), a 40-50 hour K24 is friggin awesome.

I'll agree to that. Personally I plan to stop at a stock K24A2 longblock with DIC, 50* cam gear and maybe type S oil pump. If I get bored of it in a few years that's when I'll start dumping money into the head.

This is a stock TSX engine, right? How much HP will it yield with those mods? I believe this engine has true VTEC but I see people putting K20Z3 (8th gen si) heads on them. Why would they do that if the TSX engine already has true VTEC?

Couldn't tell you, it was my understanding that those two in particular flow about same stock but the K20Z3 has more material available to open the ports up.

The 140lbs difference may be a combination of things that go beyond just the motor. I think the motors are probably close to 75-90 pounds different.

The OEM transmission is not the strongest, but it is good enough. Many people are running double the power and torque. I'm running a bar of boost on E85. I have some gear grind, but I think this was more from the previous owner maybe missing 5th often than the transmission being faulty. The S2000 transmission is slightly better. I don't know if the choice to use the factory transmission is because it fit better, or they will be able to sell more parts, or they found that it reduces the costs for consumers.


I'm curious about their high horsepower transmission option. I don't know if they will use the CD009. If so then it will probably take some tunnel modifications if the engine sits against the firewall. The CD009 just barely fits with the FA20 with minor clearance issues.

I am not overly concerned with the OE transmission. I just see it as a potential weak link. I did recently score a spare for my car.

K Power does already make adaptor kits to use the BMW 5 and 6 speed with the K series. It is a bit on the heavy side but no worse then the CD009. Plus they are tough and cheap. I don't know how tough it would be to fit in the transmission tunnel.

http://www.superstreetonline.com/how...ily-breakdown/


Differences in K24A and K24Z


Here is an all motor K24 swap that is thorough but not necessarily exceptional. Dyno in video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv4NjiG_rug

I'm not familiar enough with the BMWs to add personal opinions, but all I read is that the BMW transmissions have long throws that are sloppy or numb. Like I said, I think this was a matter of reducing cost or having one less thing to source or to keep things simple.

I think the K24 has proven to be a strong engine. I don't know if the FA24 will prove capable of handling boost the same, especially with such a high compression. A built K24 is pretty strong. The reality is that most people just won't be building the car for monster power.


The FA24 will have D4S and high compression, so response, low end torque, fuel economy, etc will likely be better at similar peak power, but I bet a K24 will make more NA power with E85 and bolt ons, but with that high compression, the FA24 will possibly respond really well to E85.


This swap is for a particular audience: someone who blows their engine might really want to consider this over a new, used FA20/FA24 or a rebuild. I can't see many people selling their stock motor, especially a low mileage FA24, just to put this in their car unless they are a Honda fanboy or know the K-series or are hell bent on saving weight and maximizing an NA build. I can also see people doing what solidsnake11 did, as an alternative to a LS or 2JZ swap, do the high hp K24 swap.

Yeah that weight figure makes more sense. They claim the pre-swap car was 2810 lbs, which seems unusually heavy. A 2013 FR-S is 50+ lbs lighter than that, for example. It should be a nice reduction in weight over the front regardless though.

Overall I think it's an interesting swap. It's not going to be cheap and IMO it'll probably never be worth it, but I also haven't blown up my engine yet (after ~40 track days and lots of hard canyon miles). I suppose it'll be a tough choice between finding a cheap used FA20 or swapping a K24 if that ever happens.

-EDIT-

They also claim:

I don't see how that's remotely possible. Stock 2012 Civic SI and BRZ/FR-S dyno within a few hp of each other on a dyno jet. Seems like they are inflating the benefits to generate more interest.

The 2012 Civic Si uses the K24Z7, whereas this swap is based on the K24A series. With the K24A2 specifically there is untapped potential that can be unlocked with a tune. A lot of the HP they are quoting will come from the intake manifold which will produce substantially more hp vs the K24A2 OEM intake manifold.

Can’t wait to see where the swap kit ends up price wise. I’ve been waiting for this for a while! I test drove a 2018 BRZ and the engine was the only drawback. Left a lot to be desired from a character perspective. Just felt lazy and unenthusiastic. This should be a big improvement!

They didnt use a FRS in the swap though. They used a BRZ which always weight 20-40lbs more additionally when Pure Automotive did their swap the their BRZ started at 2780.. and ended at 2615lbs..

Being worth it is relative isnt? Anyone who does any swap feels that it is indeed worth it. Lol

What I am saying is yes, the K24 should be lighter, but it isn't an apples to apples comparison because there may be things like a lightweight/aluminum driveshaft, a lightweight flywheel, lightweight headers vs the FA20's thick walled headers and heat shields, and other things. They mention using a hydraulic TOB, which could be lighter than the old TOB plus fork and pivot setup, or it could be heavier. I'm just saying that if someone did all those modifications to the FA20 then that may reduce the gains from 140lbs to something much lower like sub 100lbs. Regardless, it is still nice to have 100lbs off the car.

I think if someone did a K20A/A2 head on a K24A2 block and did cams, intake, exhaust manifold, K20 oil pump, etc then getting gains will come from 0.4L of extra displacement and the potential for higher rpms to 8k+ and actually making power at those rpms. Say the FA20D does 170-175whp stock then a K20/24 with bolt ons might do 235whp and more with E85, so it is possible it will do 75whp or more, but it really depends on the build, and I wouldn't say someone should expect "at least" 75whp. Put a K24A1/4 and the results will be less.

I love Honda engines, especially ones with real VTEC. So this is a really interesting swap.
That being said, I don’t understand the hate the FA20 always gets. You would think it’s the worst engine ever made if you only read reviews. [emoji28] Personally I think it’s a really fun and quirky engine, and it’s willing to rev. Not as eagerly as a K series Honda engine, but it’s no slouch. And I average about 30mpg. I completely understand that people might feel a little let down with the FA, because the chassis is so good on the twins. But it wouldn’t have been any better if let’s say Toyota put a 2ZR or M20 in the car. Unless they upgraded one of those engines a lot. (Those are both really good and reliable engines, but not very sporty).
What upsets me is seeing what they will do to make the new GR Yaris so exciting to drive, but the 86 is sort of left as is for 8 years. I’m really hoping the FA24 will solve some of the deficiencies of the FA20.
Anyway, sorry for the long rant. I agree that a K24 is an improvement over the FA20. [emoji16][emoji28]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't know about the FA20F, but the FA20D gets a bad reputation because it isn't a Toyota engine in an 86 just like the Supra has a BMW engine. The other reason is that the engine doesn't respond as well to NA mods as other engines, nor does it handle boost as well as lower compression motors did without E85. It also is heavy for a NA 4 cylinder, and it is hard to change spark plugs or access some things, and it is more complex, and it isn't as pretty. In some respects, it is not a very good tuner's engine. Yet, it does have D4S in a sea of cars that just have direct injections, so it is easy and cheap to add larger injectors, and it is a superior fueling platform.

I get the beef, but I also don't really have a problem with the motor. It has been reliable for me, and I make enough power to be satisfied. I like how it sounds, how it revs and how it feels with the low COG. With that said, I don't feel attached to it in any way. I would have been just as fine with a compact I4 like the K20 or K24. The FA24 should close the gap some on the K24 for the majority of NA and mild boost enthusiasts, which is the vast majority of people who modify this platform, but the K24 is the better platform for serious boost, whether we are talking a stock or built motor. Overall, I'm happy with the engine because it fits the car. It allowed the hood to be low and the engine to be positioned well enough behind the front wheels. I don't think a K24 would have resulted in the same exterior, nor would it have been positioned so close to the firewall as we see in these swaps. Food for thought.

I've never seen a 13-16 BRZ weigh in above 2800 lbs unless it was an automatic. Actually I've never seen a 2017+ that heavy either. Most bone stock FRS's and even BRZ's I've seen come in under 2750. If you believe their numbers, that's fine, I just think it's a little odd.

Also worth is definitely relative/subjective, no doubt about that! But here's the thing, I don't think I'm alone in my perspective. It's probably going to be $7-10k for the swap (just guessing, pricing hasn't been released yet) to gain maybe 20-30 whp over a FBO E85 FA20. Not saying that's not a significant bump in power, but compared to the cost and issues that come with swaps, it's a tough sell unless you're talking about a blown FA20 situation. Again just my opinion.

On their FB page, they're pushing this swap pretty hard and I get that from a business perspective. But there's no point making comparisons that aren't apples-to-apples. If they're talking about a FBO K20/24 on E85 making 240 whp, then compare that to a FBO FA20 on E85 making 210 whp and you get a 30 whp difference. Or if they're talking about bone stock K24a2 making 170-180 whp, then compare that to a bone stock FA20 making 165-175 whp for a 5 whp difference.

Saying a stock K24 will make 75 whp over a stock FA20, I don't think there's any legitimate apples-to-apples math that gets you there (or anywhere close really).

The merits of the swap are valid enough to stand on their own. No need to play loose with the numbers. That's all I'm getting at.

I honestly don't mind my FA20, but I have been looking for a longer term project so this checked all the boxes. The FA20 can be pretty good in fact once you ignore the echo of forum members without first hand experience. lol



FWIW the F20C is less than 10mm shorter than the K24 and they both fit in the S2000 with its much lower hood just fine. Even with this swap they could have mounted it even lower but chose not too. A D4S 2.0L 2ZZ would have been great but oh well.