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Do you want a turbo engine for the FT-86? Read here
What isn’t this thread:
A topic made to generate another “war” between who prefer the turbo solution and who prefer the NA one. Or why a solution is better than another one. Personally I think that the better choice for a 2.0 engine is a turbocharger setup. I’ve no problem with other member who prefer NA solution. But the thing is that if Toyota/Subaru will not give me a turbo engine, I will not give them my money. And I’m not the only one with this opinion here. So, welcome to a NA solution for people who prefer this kind of engine. But Toyota and Subaru have also to satisfy who prefer a turbo motor. Even to an higher price. The proposal: why don’t make a common on-line petition to the manufacturer? A real petition where every member interested write up a signature, the country of provenience, e-mail and last but not least, his nickname on the web-site (actually the bigger one on the net dedicated to this car). You think it is not a good proposal? Maybe. But we can try for free… Do you know that BMW has made the previous and the last one generation of M5 also with manual gearbox only for USA? Why? Because US costumers asked it… Think about it… :party0030: |
Because putting up a petition and making people sign up for a sign to sign a petition doesn't really help. If I remember correctly there was another one up and it had.. 300(?) signatures? That isn't going to say much to Toyota/Scion/Sub. People have tried talking to representatives, going on facebook and sending letters. Toyota JP may listen, as for the rest of the world. I'm not sure.
However, I'm pretttttty sure a year after the primer of this car a turbo will be created. Or a Limited edition. |
Like a perfect moron, I put this thread in the wrong place... can someone move it?
To Giccin: it's a matter of 5 minutes. But togheter maybe we can totalize more than 300 signature... And, if some blog or internet site spike about this strange proposal to Toyota, things can became bigger... |
I'm pretty sure the designers/engineers are just as knowledgeable and probably even as enthusiastic about a good turbo engine as we are. After all, who says "ah, that's just too much power for me"?
If there's no turbo, it's for a reason...and there could be lots of them. For the glorious 300 (was this number meant ironically?) that send a petition, there will be thousands more that will buy this car that haven't even heard of it yet and probably couldn't explain what a flat 4 is. I understand your angst, but if it is that important, why not just go aftermarket? The quality and gains would likely be better anyhow. I would love to have a turbo in this car. If it's not in the cards though and it was a deal breaker I would consider that part of the cost factor when comparing my alternatives. |
Based on the Nurburgring vid, it seems to be running very well in NA form.
If you want a turbo, why not just add an aftermarket turbo kit? Would you rather pay 5K more for a small OEM turbo kit or pay 5K for a better aftermarket kit! |
id rather have a factory turbo, with a warranty....vs a aftermarket turbo kit that voids my warranty.Id rather have the manufacturer do the research and take the necessary steps to making a reliable turbocharged engine..vs tuning and rebuilding a brand new engine to accept forced induction.
While i could care less about forced induction at this point. Signing a petition is actually a good way to get the attention of the manufacturers corporate office and marketing department who crunch numbers. If there are a good amount of people who want a turbocharged car and the demographics of the consumer are just right, and makes them money. They would be stupid not to play a hand, and would be bad for business if they ignored a decently sized petition. This is how the consumers can turn the tables into getting what we want VS the Manufacturer telling us what we want/should want. |
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Point is, there will be those who care enough to do it, and those who care but are too lazy to actually make an account. Catch my drift? |
At this point, I don't think a turbo is practical, but maybe factory supercharging later.
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I'm in a bit of a 'no-turbo' mood right now. This is because for some reason, the only 3 Genesis Coupes I noticed driving last weekend were by douche-y kids playing with their aftermarket BOVs. Ricey.
Makes me want people to have to work for their pshhh! with the FT86... |
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Petition will not change this car to magically having a turbo for its premier, or even second, and probably 3rd year of release from the factory. But if it makes you feel better...
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Im fine with having just NA.
I would love a factory flat 6 NA in my one :thumbup: But that wont happen. Im kean just for a nice 2.0 or 2.5 NA for my daily driver. |
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I can't make a better response: thi is the real point. |
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Do you think, for example that VW, BMW, Mercedes etc etc make experiments with their car everytime they launch a new engine? No they don't: they make a good chasis that can simply be adopted also for more powerfull engines... (M, AMG etc etc are another issue) Then, I can wait also another 6/12 months for a turbo FT-86. Bur 3 years... it is too much... |
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2nd Model Year at the earliest, if they're already working on a turbo variant on the side. The engine would have to be tested, tweaked, and tuned to make sure it passes current emissions while also not sacrificing long-term reliability. That's why I say 3 years, optimistic. I would expect a turbo version Subaru side to come out in tandem or slightly after the new WRX separate line of car's comes out with its own STi version of the new engine. There's not even a stated timeframe on when the EJ will be phased out from that car's lineup, but it will, in the near future. Now -THAT- being said...its rumored (or confirmed, couldn't tell ya, ask Ichi) that the new WRX's during this timeframe will be using a 2.0L. If, infact, that is the same 2.0L used in the 216a, I'm highly skeptical that Subaru would offer the same engine setup out of its flagship sports car for one that doesn't have AWD. The 216a is doing the same thing the FT-86 is doing; offering an entry level sports car...affordable. Oh, and they stated that STi (shut up ichi, this is how I type it, I am OldSkool) is more than likely, but turbo is not. Just all the signs point to no rush or eagerness to turbocharge the car, hence the few years down the line bit on ever possibly seeing one. |
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No worries, I am sure there'll be a turbo version. Why they say ther will be no it to make most by the first one, without, and then make them upgrade for the one with. It is just like BMW, if you want the latest tech, you have to buy you same BMW new every year, even if it is not mid lif cycle refresh.
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Same with the last Generation MR-2. It was only offered with the crummy 1ZZ-FE, even though the 2ZZ-GE is a relatively easy swap. It was only available as a convertable as well, which probably ate into possible sales. I know I would have been more interested in it had they had a coupe version. |
An aftermarket turbo would only void the warranty if its proven to be the component that caused the damage. Its not like they send your warranty paperwork to the shredder the moment the dealer hears a psst when you pull up.
Most of the times that I've heard people hide behind the warranty issue is because they are uncomfortable making this modification themselves. That's fine too. I won't say it's not a legit concern. I lemon law'd my 06 Z for oil consumption and I imagine a turbo on that would have shot my paperwork process. But I've yet to see similar problems reported with Subie engines and wouldn't expect one this go around either. Even if there was an engine issue there are workarounds and the warranty on the rest of the car would still be in tact. |
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Also, has anyone considered the fact that a turbo might not actually improve the car? Sounds crazy, I know, but just look at the Mazdaspeed Miata. Oh sure, it was quicker, and if that's all you care about then that's great, but the extra power totally threw off the car's focus. My hope is that Toyota and Subaru deliver a car that is able to balance power, grip, feedback, and comfort. From what the developers are saying, its sounds like they may just do it. If they do, then slapping a big turbo on the engine is going to throw that whole balance off and destroy all of their hard work. |
I'd rather it were offered in a turbo. The amount of money needed to get more power out of factory turbo offerings is vastly less than required of N/A offerings.
Honestly, 2.0L is just not very much to work with, power wise. Major surgery would be needed on the engine to net another 50hp. 50hp out of a turbo mill is as easy as an exhaust/intake swap and a new ECU. I would welcome a 2.5L version of the same engine putting out the same specific output though. 250hp from a 2.5L NA would be pretty sweet. I just don't think 2.0L is enough unless it's got a turbo on it. |
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in this case, the V6 is the flagship model that was made to compete with the stang, camaro, and 370z. the turbo 4 was put together to compete against cars like the civic si, wrx, etc. so low cost for that car was a must from the get go. lastly, when the ft86 was announced, they had a traget price of 20k... if i recall correctly, there was talk about how they couldnt meet that price and that the price would have to be bumped up a bit. so lets juts say they can price the 2.0L NA version at 23k. how cheap can the turbo version be? 24-25k? i doubt it... just look at the placement of the engine. its already a piping nightmare. do you move the engine up? wouldnt that defeat the purpose of the car? soooo many questions/problems... turbo is such a far off reality at this point... so anyways, im not saying it cant be done, but just because hyundai did it doesnt mean toyota/subaru WANTS to do it... as a side note: gen coupe sales are not doing so hot, so its not as if they want a piece of the RWD turbo pie... there IS no pie.... |
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the tq curve of a turbo engine can never be like a NA engine. even if the NA engine has pitiful tq down low, as long as it can freely rev, you can always control the engine with the throttle. with a turbo car, you always have to wait for spool and then the tq spikes "unpredictably" in relation to your right foot. sure you can try to flatten the tq curve with tuning, but you can never eliminate it. thats just how it is. ok so you stay in boost all the time. nice. now turbo sizing becomes a big factor. let the revs fall and you get off boost, rev too high and you start to run out. get a smaller turbo and you run out sooner. bigger turbo and you have to spool longer and sustain a higher rpm to stay in boost. turbo just doesnt fit this car. and i personally would rather it not have a turbo. i just hope that they make it a rev happy engine with a high redline. this kind of turbo/no turbo "debate" was huge when the 335i came out. even though max boost is achieved at like 1500 rpm or whatever, there is still perceptible lag. and up top it starts to run out. its a wonderful engine, one of the best turbo engines ever, but a lot of people still prefer the FEEL of the 3.0l NA six. is the 335i faster? heck yeah. so if that's what you want, ok. if you prefer feel? then NA all the way... |
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I'd love to see a TVS or twin-screw supercharged factory model. That would be my preference for a boosted application.
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+1 That is why for me BMW M is dead. They went FI. |
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I'll say this though I don't care for turbo engines either, I just wish it was an option. I would prefer what Maxim has been saying all along, a 2.5l D/I 240-250hp/190tq Flat-4 with a body no heavier than 2850 lbs.
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Hyundai hasn't done shit except 'sound like' Honda and look like Mercedes! :bs: |
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all im asking for in the FT86 is performance on par with a civic si, except with RWD... that's it. no more, no less. people who clamor for a turbo should realistically look elsewhere... its not that kinda car... |
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I just realize you own a Evo so you should know better about the 2.0t. And yes I know the engines aren't identical Look at this 300whp GC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMcPCoDqRPE |
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Secondly if you feel that this would be a raging success if not for the Hyundai name, I disagree. I use the Subaru in North America example. Prior to the WRX, Subaru was pretty much a Japanese version of Volvo. Cars for aging, upper-middle class, ex-hippies who liked to ski. WRX and then STI completely changed that. And it was because of the quality and performance of the car. Last, Hyundai could have done much better with the Genesis Coupe. They had plenty of time to analyze what made the legendary Japanese cars of the 90s so legendary. And then copy, refine and improve. But they didn't. They targeted the G37, and made a cheaper version for youth with their new mid-range motor. Plus the styling is a bit off. It's 90% a good looking car, but the left over 10% is way too tacky for me. They're improving though... |
I'd love a good ol efficient, great gas mileage turbo 2.0. I have little to no faith in the engineers to produce this s2k like engine they've talked about.
I would prefer a reliable 32+mpg 230+hp/180+tq.. 2.3-2.5L n/a motor over turbo though, it'd have to be stock but again no faith in the 2 companies to produce it. |
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the V6 competes with the stang and camaro, and imo most people who buy those, buy it for the cool factor/nostalgia, not actual performance. time after time the V6 gen coupe has won comparos against the V6 stang and camaro. it has proven to be a better sportscar and yet people dont care. they want a mustang or camaro like daddy had back in the day... hyundai's name is not what it used to be. i dont buy that idea that people wouldnt buy a hyundai sportscar. imo its other factors more so than the badge. for a first real sportscar, the gen coupe is a great start, but i get the feeling they could've done more outta the gate. like how can the optima/sonata have 270hp and the gen coupe 210? its a travesty. they shot themselves in the foot. and so the 2012 redesign is going to be interesting... very interesting.... if they tune the 2.0 to 270 hp and replace the V6 with the tau? and keep the same price point? back on topic with the FT86, i think they shouldnt try to compete with those kinda cars. even if its in a similar price range. i'd rather the FT keep with the philosophy. a sport coupe in between a miata and s2000. a rwd civic si. an autocross/drift car never to see the strip... |
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