Need advice concerning engine recall.
 

Hello.

I have a 2013 BRZ Limited I bought new in early 2014, with about 50,000 miles on it.

Because of illness, I haven't been here on the forum in a long time, so I was unaware of the engine valve spring recall until just a few days ago when I read an article about it.

I never received a notice from my dealership nor Subaru about the recall. I didn't know anything was wrong.

I have never had engine problems, so I was upset to hear of the recall - and especially the fact that the engine was worse AFTER the recall work was done.

I would appreciate any information and advice on why the recall was first issued, and whether I should have the recall work done, or if I would be better off not having the work done since I have never had engine problems.

I hate the thought of having a "timebomb" in the engine that could explode on me at any time - but I also hate the idea of my engine being ruined (it's out of warranty) because I had the recall work done.

I'd appreciate any help/advice anyone might have.

Thank you.

engine doesn't become worse, ya just read all the nightmare stories of poor workmanship plus it aint like all the successful folks have posted..

all the info has been posted in all the threads you've come across. here is a small spoon..

at least on this forum thus far, no one has reported their engine blowing up as a direct result of not doing the recall..

Your car my not be affected if you didn’t get the notice. Don’t get it done if you don’t have to. The dealer ruined my car during the recall

BuzzR, welcome back!

The details of the recall can be found at the links in this post from earlier today.

Short version, the valve springs in some Subaru engines were found not to meet engineering specifications and a recall was issued.

The engine in the BRZ has a gasket seal that has to be reapplied very precisely in the process of doing this job. Some mechanics have not done so and that has resulted in a small number of engine failures due to oil starvation. Most were repaired or replaced with no pushback, some were more difficult.

The general thought even for those of us that had successful updates is that if we had to do it over again, we probably would not do it. The recall covers damage if it does fail before.

As said above, check your VIN at at the appropriate site to see if its required.

Dadhawk. Thank you SO much for the info - especially the production dates of the affected cars. I KNOW that my car was produced in November of 2013, so that was after the production dates of the affected cars. So I think I'm okay - very happily. I will check the VIN number, just to be sure, but it looks like I'm in the clear. Thank you and the others SO much for your help. I feel a lot better now. Sincerely, BuzzR

Good for you. It's Russian Roulette when getting the recall done. The bullet was in the chamber when I pulled the recall trigger.

Thanks Tommy. I'm sorry you had so much trouble. That's what I was afraid of happening to me. I got lucky. I thank you and everybody for helping me out. My mind's at rest now.

Yup me too and after it was fired the bullet went straight to plugging up some oil passages and wrecking my engine.

Well, in the big picture it worked out. I had a new incredible motor built by one of if not THE best people when it comes to the FA20. Total confidence now when I'm on the track as I have to drive there and the piece of mind was worth the money.

Any engine is a ticking time bomb. Getting the recall done or not is not Russian roulette. It is risk management. Are the odds of the engine having issues greater with the poor quality valve springs, or having Joe mechanic put your engine back together. With the valve spring issue your odds are fixed. With getting the recall done you can affect your odds. If you just drop it off and let them run with it they may put new guy on it. in that case you would be better off not having it done. I would be a Helicopter owner and ask who is doing the work, how many has he done, ask to talk with the technician doing the work, try to get a personal connection with the technician so he knows who's car he is working on, ECT, ECT...... You would be amazed what a couple of dozen doughnuts will do for a group of mechanics. Anyway Hope this helps. I would get the recall done but would have to have confidence in the technician doing the work first.

Nope. Doesn't work like that. When I researched things I thought I found the right place. Sat the service manager down, had the conversation. In the end it didn't end well. These tech's are in a time constraint and taking extra care with the sealant is not in that timeframe. There is a sequence that must be followed and it is time consuming and not part of their program. If you don't track your car there's a good chance that you'll never have an issue however pushing the car a bit and the issue WILL show up.

You can dislike me, but this actually pissed me off. Getting the recall done arguably was the worst decision I've ever made for any car I've ever owned. It not only cost me 2 years of ownership so far without being able to drive it, but now I don't trust it and have lost every modicum of faith I had in my local dealership to begin with.

Who would think that a voluntary recall performed by professionals would possibly destroy the vehicle's engine, and they'd charge the owner for it! Never again will I take a voluntary recall unless it comes with written agreement for inpatient psychiatric therapy and full buy-back guarantee of the vehicle should something go unexpectedly.

Ok, I'm sorry. I'm not mad at YOU, Grady, I'm mad at my hobby and at myself. </tears>

I understand, It has been years since I had a technician at a dealership I trusted. In fact it was back in in 2003 and it was a Saturn dealership. I had an Orange SC2. His name was Cam and I had a strange issue and he worked on my car for days to get it fixed. Was always honest with me and did a lot of extra work I know he did not get paid for to make it right. “Professionals”? Yes. However in all industries, Technicians, Doctors, etc you have the top 10 percent that are good. The next 80 just do the job. The bottom 10 you can not trust. So without a lot of research you have a 10 percent chance of gettin exceptional work.

And yes once you take a hit from the track pipe you are forever screwed!

It does work like that, you did improve your chances of getting a better job. I did not say it will eliminate your chances of issues. My crystal ball has been on back order for over 30 years, Once it comes in I will help everyone here to avoid all of these issues.

The very best mechanic ever to touch an engine can and does screw up now and then. The very worst can sometimes do perfectly flawless work.
As you said you can try to mitigate the risk but it will still exist.


I generally try to find the dirtiest, grime covered, most miserable SOB in the shop and see if I can wangle getting them to do the work. They are generally the best. And doughnuts and coffee DO indeed make a difference.

That pretty much describes the independent garage I use. There are always 2 too many broken cars in the parking lot, the garage space is full, the owner/operator and his one assistant mechanic are always grimy. But they both always have a smile on their face and act like you are a long lost relative they can't believe they are seeing you again.

I'd trust either of them with a hypercar if I had one.

But,but,but I gave you a donut! Your favorite kind and my car blew up. Did you not LIKE the donut?!

Oh shit can still happen. You just reduce the chance of them telling you to screw off if it does go wrong. You fed them so now you are a real person that they want to please.


Who would you rather try to help out?


The guy that comes in and lectures you on how to do your job, wants to stand over your shoulder as you work and all around is just a pain in the ass?


Or


The guy that brings you coffee and doughnuts, briefly discusses the know issue in a non condescending way and leaves you alone to do the work?

There is a balance there. Be nice, don't micromanage but have a conversation regarding your concerns. Above all do your research on whoever is doing the recall work. That's how I found my guy that did an amazing job. He sent me photos every step of the way, just such a pleasure to work with. I always pay people extra and show utmost respect to their talents and it goes a long way.

And doughnuts!


Maybe it is a Canadian thing but you can get anything with doughnuts.




https://globalnews.ca/wp-content/upl...y=85&strip=all

Thank God for donuts. Back in the 80's it was illegal substances.

Those probably work as well!

I can tell you the guy I bought mine from sure wishes he hadn't had it done. But the state of California decided it was an emissions related problem so required it in order to renew registration. Rod bearing went tap tap tap tap. Toyota wanted a couple thousand dollars just to investigate the issue and denied any responsibility. Sucks when a tech having a bad day ruins your car and you have no recourse other than either pay them to fix it, or pay an attorney to make them fix it. He would have been better off driving it into a ditch, at least insurance will cover that.

Actually, I believe it was because it was considered a safety recall and CA requires compliance with all safety recalls. I could be wrong though.

EDIT: Yep, I was wrong, thanks @Tcoat and @Racenut

Nope. It was because of the emissions. Said it right in one of the documents.

They cited "emissions" as the reason. There was a recall for the airbag and possible tie rod failure on my truck. The state never said crap about that. In California, you can drive a bucket of crap rolling death trap and they don't care, just as long as it will pass a smog check :D

I would only replace my valve springs if I had to go in there for something else. If anyone's interested in details of the topic, I can explain more. Otherwise, I won't go into the boring stuff. Bottom line, the springs that were going to fail did so very soon after being placed into service. Some statistical outliers took longer, maybe a couple thousand miles.

There's no way in hell I would let someone touch my shit to replace perfectly good springs. They're battle tested. The statistical probability of a failure by this point is, well, damn near zero. That's just how springs behave with respect to fatigue failure when service conditions approach design limits.

I guarantee that seasoned engineers at Subaru/Fuji/Toyota collectively shook their heads in the decision to go forward with the recall, especially after their analysis followed exactly what we've learned to predict over the years.

I did.

Good ol Calif. for how beautiful it can be it can totally suck.

There's plenty parts of the US (and the world) that are just as beautiful, without the sucky bits.

My engine was subject to the recall. I'm currently at 180k on original valve springs and have had no issues. I'd rather run the risk of it maybe happening versus having some 9-5'er open up my engine.

IMO, changing valve springs can be done almost anyone. It's not a hard job. Hard to screw up, but not hard to do right.

Had my recall done and they threw in a new serpentine belt and changed the plugs free of charge

Haha... no. It's a MAJOR undertaking requiring careful attention to many many details along the way. It's very easy to screw up.

Any second year apprentice with half his wit about him could do it. There are techs that do far more complicated work every single day without screwing up. The sad part is they didn't even screw up the harder parts. It was the simple thing that they probably didn't even bother to check the special instructions that they messed up.

This engine is particularly unforgiving of those who don't follow the exercise to the letter. I will say again, in a well qualified criticism of my service industry peers, there are many among us who do not respect the basics.

Following the exercise to the letter is the same for any multi part mechanical device. Leave a part or step out and it aint gonna work right.

Looking at a BRZ head.....I'm not a mechanic, but looks pretty standard as far as springs? Ya know, remove cams, remove springs/retainers, install new ones. reinstall cams in same spot. Time them. Close it up and start.
Other than being horizontal, whats majorly different from any other ohc engine?

Timing cover on the front and all the timing valves on the cams are exposed.
Scrape all the sealing goo into the oil passages and sump then spooge new goo all over everything.

That's pretty non standard opposed to popping off the valve cover.

The weak link in the process is the timing chain cover sealant both in removal of old and application of new. ANY excess whether from scraping off the old or the new application that gets into the engine can and will clog oil ports. This is a ticking time bomb especially for those that see track time.

Other engines aren't glued together. There are many places where improper surface prep, and adhesive application will cause catastrophic failure from blocked oil galleries. There are also places where o-rings under pressure will blow out because they weren't inserted carefully. Most commonly, carelessly removed old sealant makes its way back to the pan and ends up clogging the oil pickup screen.

This is a unique engine. I love it, but it requires special care.


edit: yeah... what bcj and Tommy said. :thumbsup:

LOL something that I was told many times was IMPOSSIBLE prior to the recall failures. There were at least 20 reported failures in 13s straight from the factory that all pointed to this. Robots screw up too!

I still maintain my stand that any half competent person can do this repair. It wasn't a matter of skill that caused issues it was a simple failure to follow instructions and take the proper care.

Like I've said a million times, you can't pay people to give a shit. That's precisely why I never roll the dice with things I hold dearly. Hell, now that I think of it, you've seen how I suffer playing slots! It all fits.


edit: something else I just considered... Given the choice, I'd gladly pay a certified A&P mechanic with zero experience on this engine than I would any dealer shop. This shit rarely happens with aircraft, and heads roll when it does. If we were truly concerned about safety over litigation, that's how we would treat automotive service.