Difficult 1st gear and almost grinds 2nd, oil problem?
 

2017 BRZ 90,000km
I just purchased the car and replaced most fluids.
Subaru dealer doesn't carry stock tranny fluid and told me they just use castrol.
So I went and got castrol synthetic 75-90 for both tranny and diff.
The tranny was notchy like metal clanging to metal on shifts. I have no idea why but I drained and swtiched to Redline MT-90 (and kept the castrol in the diff).

Problem:
With redline MT-90 (all shifts are good except) getting into AND out of 1st gear is very notchy when car is cold (6-12ºCelsius weather). And often times I cannot get it into 1st unless I use a bit of force, then it will go in with 2 small clicks.
Once car/fluid warms up 1st gear is problem free, but still not as smooth as a Honda transmission (civic) for whatever it's worth.

2nd problem:
2nd gear sometimes almost grinds. Meaning it doesn't but the shifter vibrates (low frequency)+ (a slight clunky noise) before going in (reference: grind= high frequency vibration + noise).

My thoughts:

I am clueless why there's 1st gear shift issues, but on my bro's S2000 and my previous 944 Porsche I experienced same issues shifting into 1st gear.
2nd gear issue synchros problem - since it's not a new car anymore.
Warranty is still valid, can it be used?

Trans only.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/at...9792-image.jpg

Might not be the best idea, but maybe try double-clutching into 2nd until the MTF is in operating temp (I've noticed when the engine coolant temp is at least at the first line), shifting becomes smoother. Also, don't shift into first unless you're completely stopped.

I used to own a Honda as well and I find that Subaru transmissions aren't quite as slick. My 2nd gear is notchy almost every time in cold weather unless I've driven it for 20min and the car is brand new. If you want to try a lighter weight oil, I previously used Redline MTL (75w80) in my Honda which worked well in freezing temperatures. The Pentosin MTF mentioned above (also a 75w80) seems to be highly regarded as well.

Personally, I'm going to try Ford Motorcraft MTF (XT-M5-QS) which is still a GL-4 and 75w90 oil that Subaru calls for.

Ive been running Pentosin MTF2 in my car for 25,000+ miles and have had no issues. Yes, its expensive at about $25 a qt. There is a thread somewhere in the lower levels of this forum going through why it works in our Aisin transmissions. Hyundai uses it in theirs for the Genesis. And BMW puts it in their M cars. The thinner 80 vs 90 weight helps in the cold, but it can also do well during Florida summers. Ive lived in both with the car. No grinding, no notchiness, no hard push into first. Sometimes into reverse, but put it in 3rd before reverse and its fine.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65140

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16604
^^ This is a 35 pg thread on mostly Pentosin and similar oils.

I've struggled with these issues on stock fluid and I've finally found decent solutions.

1st gear: Pause for 1-2 seconds with the clutch pressed in before moving the gear lever. This allows for the input shaft on the transmission to stop spinning(and match the wheels which are also not spinning).

1st to 2nd shift: Maintain a constant RPM for 1-2 seconds before pressing in the clutch. Not sure why this works, but it does. Basically keep the accelerator pedal steady.

These transmissions perform very badly when cold, but the above tricks make it tolerable until it warms up.

This ^
There is no magic bullet fluid to change it. You will get used to it.
The big thing is that unlike the Honda or other FWD trannies your shifter is directly hooked up to the gear change lever. FWD use a bunch of lever, cables and linkages which all have a little give that absorbs the "notchy" feel people get. That little resistance is just an indicator of a close tolerance tranny and although it feels weird at first you soon learn the tricks.

I had the same issue with MT-90 due to it being relatively thick at low temps. Switched to Motul Gear 300 which has a higher viscosity index and is thinner when cold, very noticeable improvement in my case. I don't live in Canada, however.

Someone on here once had a tip for cold driving that was counter to my intuition in that the first to second shift should be done quickly and esepcially all in one motion with no pause. Not saying jam it in there but once i took that advice i had zero problems with the 1-2 shift. If its hard getting into first definitely try double clutching when you're stationary (without the rev match) that usually makes it go in easy for me.

Only thing i do is just roll through all the gears in neutral before i set off a few times.

This helped my cold notchiness a lot.

For OP's reference, I'm also in BC with a 2017 BRZ (73k kms) and am currently running Motul Gear 300 in my transmission and diff (changed at ~30k). I still occasionally have to "force" my shift into first before the car is fully warmed up, but after that all my upshifts and downshifts (with proper revmatching) are very smooth.

OP here.
Thank you everyone for helping me out. It's a lot of mixed information since everyone has different geographics and model year etc.

I put in some Pentosin MTF2 (super expensive btw) today and went for a short test drive..... I am very happy. 1st gear had only hints of notchy-ness (is that a word?). The difference was felt just pulling out of the driveway. For the most part my problem is 80%? solved. I'll update once I get more mileage.

Now help me understand why Pentosin MTF2 75w-80 is better in cold temp than Redline's mt-90 75w-90 when both have the same winter weight... (Maybe I should had used this for my (RIP) 944 S2 with the near same issues; and got used to it as I thought the car was just "old". )
Anyway, which part of the data sheet should I be looking at to check this cold affected nuance?

Engine and transmission oil grades are specified by min/max values for that specific grade. As long as the oil falls within the range then it is assigned that particular SAE grade. This is why you might hear of people saying one oil is thinner and another oil is thicker even when comparing different oils of the same grade.

Basically, what you want to be looking for when comparing cold viscosity ratings is the Kinematic Viscosity @ 40*C. The units are either listed as cSt or mm^2/s. The higher the number, the more viscous or thicker the fluid.

You can see in the following chart how big of a range 75W gear oil is by referencing "cSt @ 40*C" range on the left with and "SAE Gear" in blue.
https://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Aut...ison_chart.jpg
https://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Aut...art.jpghttp://

swapped to the bmw mtf-2 75w-80.



i don't have to wait on the transmission oil to heat up to use 2nd. in a word...HUGE improvement in drive-ability, runs quieter and less syncro rattle.

Do you have part number and price, by any chance?

83 22 2 339 219.



you might find it under febi or motul in the uk. pentosin is hard to find in the usa.

There's a BMW dealership not even 2 miles from my house. I'll check out pricing this week. So far I've had OEM fill, Toyota LV 75W, Amsoil 75W-90, and currently Redline MT-90, and I can't say I've been super impressed with any of them. I've been contemplating just using a good synthetic10W-30 engine oil like I've been using in my Jeep transmission for the past 200K miles.. I'll certainly give the BMW oil a try though, assuming it's not 50 bucks/qt...

the part number comes up on parts geek cheap.

When I first got my car, even with only 12K miles on it, I replaced all of the drive train and engine fluids. I know, way too early, but the difference in shifting because obviously better after using Motul. I'm also very particular about my vehicle maintenance. I do have to agree that this transmission is very notchy and grindy, 1st, 2nd, and even 5th sometimes. After replacing said fluids, I also got a rear shift bushing from Perrin that made things a lot better. It's relatively cheap, and super easy to install.

I flushed my transmission fluid with less than 3000mi on the clock with Ford Motorcraft MTF (75W90) and my transmission feels better overall.

In the cold, 1st and 2nd gear is much more usable now and is considerably less notchy. When warmed up, the feel is a bit better than stock for all gears.

I'm not sure if these changes are due to better fluid or just fresh fluid but I plan on trying Motul Gear 300 for my next fluid change.

Im tellin you, its been dropping below freezing recently and my Pentosin MTF2 behaves like a warm transmission right away, ice cold. There is no "well, its a little better." Its smooth shifting right away, all day. No notchy, no clunk-clunk-click into second, no hard pulling or pushing up or down. It just works.

How about when it's hot?

I lived in Florida for a year with the car. Same thing. Super smooth, no noises or behaviors that ever worried me.

@zippee


I experienced poor shifting as parts started wearing out on my car. Things became noticeably worn out and are pretty easy to identify. Throwing new parts at it provided immediate results.

The clutch throw-out bearing is one of the first things I'd change out, if it hasn't already. I'm on my third throw-out bearing at 130,000 miles. I was getting grinds going into gear, shh-shh and tapping or vibration noises - all from this bearing. Here's a sound clip of my engine from over a year ago exhibiting noticeable tapping sounds before I took my car into the dealership for the engine / spring recall and had a new clutch throw-out bearing put in: https://voca.ro/1iC9k45HPQoS

The other part I think wears too much is the transmission mount. It is too soft, and after lots of miles and hard driving it gets sloppy, and the transmission / drivetrain bangs around and makes 1st-2nd gear shifts HELL. Either get a new transmission mount, or get a Whiteline "positive shift kit" which will reduce this movement. Huge improvement in shift-feel.

Where can you order Pentosin MTF-2? I saw FRSport.com has it. Amazon doesnt have it.

Where else?

NOT FRSport.com!! Mine came from Ebay. Maybe a parts store, youll have to dig around. Or go straight to BMW or Hyundai. Theyll more than likely have to order it. Hyundai uses it for the Manual Genesis I believe. Look it up.

I notice a difference shifting with gloves versus bare hand in the winter. There is definitely a feel and directness you can use to ensure it goes into gear more smoothly on those first few shifts.
I guess over the 3 years of driving i got a feel for how to shift the car cold.

Just this morning with gloves on I was having 1-2 shift problems. Took the glove off and was able to navigate the next shift fine. Any hesitation or sloppyness in the shift and it doesn't want to slide easily into gear.
To be fair I was using fingerless gloves and it makes holding the shift knob more awkward.

Im seeing more and more MTF2 sourcing issues. And BMW is saying to replace it with a DCT fluid (FFL-4), and some say the MTF-LT-2 is the new MTF2.

Upon digging and researching, which I love to do, I found this on Bimmerworld. A trusted source, and probably the best BMW people to find an MTF2 solution.

Redline MT-LV.
https://www.bimmerworld.com/Fluids/D...TLV-Quart.html

Not familiar with the Redline MT-LV but it looks like a really light oil and wonder if it will be okay for track usage. I'd probably try the Redline MTL for the BRZ before thinking of going to the MT-LV.

MT-LV is a replacement for MTF2. Bimmerworld states its what you should use if that recommended FFL-4 fluid gets too notchy on track. And MTF2 comes in all the big manual BMW M cars.

Why not FRSport.com?

That was the first place I went for Pentosin. It took them 2 months to acknowledge that I placed an order only for them to say they didnt have Pentosin. Many others have been wronged by FRSport.

Gotcha okay. Where would be a good place to get it then?

See previous post.

im kind of just going through the OP's ordeal right now

i had my tob, clutch, and diff/mt fluids changed. he did the fluids with high performance motul gear 300. i hate performance stuff for daily cars. i HATE being forceful with my shift lever, but things inside the trans are only moving/warming up when the rear wheels are moving, so the only way to warm it up is just drive it.

thanks for your posts, ill look into the pentosin oil youve talked about

i continue to keep light load on the motor until its at operating temps, but i just hate having to be a little more forceful with the lever, it creeps me out.

I didn't like the motul gear 300 in my transmission. I have been running redline mt-90

Could you provide further details (eg model number) on your rear shift bushing and how it was better?

I'm not sure if this is due to the fluid or if the transmission is still breaking in (currently at 6,700 km / 4,200 mi) but shift feel has improved over the past month and notchiness has seemed to have almost all gone away since changing to Ford Motorcraft MTF (75W90). Have to use some force getting into 1st and 2nd gear when cold at -8°C/17°F but didn't experience any notchiness.

https://www.perrin.com/shop/shifters...hifter-bushing

https://www.perrin.com/shop/drivetra...-mount-support

These are the two bushings you’ll need. Makes shifting smoothly with very little notching. Fairly easy to install, except for the transmission mount which require an extra jack, but each one should take half or one one depending on how mechanical savyy you are. That plus replacing the trans and LSD oils, you’ll notice the difference.


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So, I recently replaced my stock manual transmission oil at about 68K miles in my 2014 BRZ (I know its way overdue :iono:) with Motul Gear 300 75W90 oil. However, I'm now in about the first 100 miles after the oil change and I'm regularly experiencing hard shifts from 1st to 2nd, but also from 2nd to 3rd and even 3rd to 4th. The issue is more pronounced when changing gears at higher RPMs. That is, if I'm changing up through those gears at higher RPMs, I experience something like a half-second to a one-second delay before I can actually get into gear and let out the clutch. Howevere, I'm not necessarily experiencing any grinding, it just routinely takes that additional amount of time for the gear (the synchros?) to fully engage. It doesn't seem to get too much better as the transmission warms up, but I also haven't gone on an extended drive to test that out yet.

I'm considering a number of potential issues.

From searching the forum and the internet, it seems like GL-5 oil is generally not good for BRZ/FR-S transmissions because of the material composition of the synchros, but the Motul 300 LS from CounterSpace Garage says it is GL-4/GL-5 compatible. So I'm assuming that means its rated up to GL-5, but is also will work with transmissions that need GL-4, and that it presumably doesn't harm the transmission synchros. So I'm trying to first understand if maybe my new transmission oil is the issue or if these are separate issues that just happen to have started manifesting themselves. With that said, I can't imagine that CSG would have knowingly sold transmission oil they indicate is compatible with the BRZ that is not actually compatible or could harm the transmission, so I will assume this is more my lack of understand than that.

Along the lines of potentially separate issues, I've wondered if perhaps my clutch is not fully disengaging when the pedal is fully depressed. I have some evidence that this may be the cluprit as the issue seems to be a little less worse when I'm really mashing down the clutch pedal and might suggest a clutch adjustment or perhaps needing to replace the throwout bearing? But if that is the issue, my question is whether and why there would be a connection between that and a transmission oil change? I've also learned more about the benefits of installing a bushing for the rear transmission mount (e.g., whiteline, cusco), which seems to help stiffen up the transmission and can help greatly in getting back easy gear shifts, but again, I don't understand why needing to install something like that would become an issue all of the sudden after changing my transmission oil.

Any ideas on troubleshooting this further before I start dropping cash? Perhaps I'm thinking about the problem wrong?