Sheared lug studs are caused by bad studs or bad lug nuts?
 

Would replacing the lug nuts with some premium brand like McGuard help to avoid the lug nut binding issue? I've only had one, and now use anti-seize, but don't want another one. Prefer not to replace the OEM studs, especially if they are not the cause.

Caused by user error or contaminated studs.

I have never stripped or broken a wheel stud when doing it right, i.e. hand thread on first turn or two then gun/wrench if needed. I always use cloth to clean threads, and if open ended lugs I take extra care to clean them up when wheels come off.

Studs get some dirt/grime on them and any extra resistance causes it to cross thread and break.

My experience is 20 years of DIY work on all my cars, plus about 200 track days on/off over that period. Lots of wheel changes, sometimes 3-5 times a day, never broke a stud.

Key is to not rush the work. Don't swap wheels like you're a NASCAR mechanic. Aftermarket studs like ARP only give you a false sense of security, you can still break those studs... just a lot harder and a lot messier when you do.

I don't think BRZ is known for stripping threads (user error) The studs are known to be weak, I thought. I've had a nut seize onto a stud, and I head to shear it off with a breaker. No way it was user error. I hand tighten all lugs, and then use a torque wrench. Never an impact.

I have had zero issues with the studs. Hand tighten, and torque with hand tools.

I've had aluminum lug nuts cause corrosion and ended up stripping.

I've never experienced this; using an impact to install the nut. Wheel nut into a socket and spinning it on. Easy way to cross thread the stud.

Are the OEM BRZ lug nuts made of aluminum?
If they are, then I want to replace them.

Are the OEM lug nuts inferior?
Like the 2-piece kind that get stripped on the outer cap?

I prefer the OEM look, what should I buy?
I want zero tuner flash, just quality that is more reliable and not likely to get stuck.
What brand ? Gorilla? McGard?

There's definitely something about Subaru's tin foil lugs.. i've taken my cars (Hondas, Benzes, Volvos, Toyotas) to the same tire shop for years..i've watched them use torque wrenches. and have never had a problem before my FR-S. Every time i've changed tires there's been a problem. Not sure though since this is my only Subaru.

I have some McGard lugs and am gonna change to ARP studs soon.

User error.

I had my wheels on and off more times than I care to remember.

Some points from an old guy:
1. Use a torque wrench (if you don't own a couple of torque wrenches your not doing it right)
2. Always wind the nut in by hand, never start with the impact driver, ugga dugga will kill em quick if the thread hasn't been started correctly.
3. I personally use the tiniest dab of anti-seize (50% of the internet will explode from this statement)
4. Always use closed nuts, open ended nuts will let contamination into the threads.
5. Cheap aluminium nuts are rubbish, use steel, or, if you need bling, Ti or Chromium-molybdenium steel like project Mu with floating seats.

Or, break them because monkey fisted, and then blame the product.

Or, just say they are rubbish in order to justify the purchase of some "brand name" studs in order to gain more "Bro" points to impress all the teenage boys.......

Different issue I've had:


>Lug nut tin caps from OEM lugnuts popped off on three of mine while torquing them during wheel rotation.< I previously had no idea the these lug nuts are a cheapo two piece design.

(Had I known in advance that this would be an issue, I'd have used a much deeper socket than the one I've used for years on many other vehicles).


I'd like to replace these lug nuts with something which looks stock, yet is a better quality product.

I'll say I agree with the "user error" thing, but since most cars are fine with the abuse of cross threading and impact torquing, it does cast the Twins' wheel studs in a bad light.

I disagree with the "user error" thing.
Because this is the only car I have ever had where I broke a stud by hand. And I have had a lot of cars. I always screw the nuts on and off by hand so as not to cross thread them. A couple years ago a stud just snapped off when I removed it. I think it was one of the very few times I brought the car to the tire place to have them replaced. So they were probably over torqued. I usually remove the wheels and bring them with the new tires to be replaced. It was easy enough to replace the stud but WTF?
I just had my tires changed the other day and I noticed when I was putting the wheels back on the car, the nuts were really "crunchy" going on the studs. I should have anti-seized them but it was hot as hell out and sweat was in my eyes.
They'll probably snap next time I remove them.

Short answer: Just going with a premium reputable brand (I'm looking at Muteki, McGard, Gorilla, and others right now) *might* be sufficient to avoid the nut/stud galling/stripping problem. Maybe... It's pretty inexpensive and of course super-easy installation, so I say give it a shot!

After my experience I think better studs by themselves are not sufficient, if you get aftermarket premium studs, also get known good lug nuts. This may seem obvious to some but for whatever reason it wasn't for me!

I got ARP studs before I did my first track day with the BRZ in Spring of 2017 and have just used the factory lug nuts. Getting ready for track event last month, when swapping brake pads out I had trouble removing one lug nut on the right rear :o Late afternoon before the event of course! Couldn't source an M12x1.25 tap for external threads, but borrowed a "clean-up" nut from local shop and bought new lug nuts (forget the brand but definitely not premium name-brand) from local PepBoys. No real problem with swapping race tires on/off a couple of times at the track, I think I caught it before significant damage to the stud.

Now with an event coming up in a week, I think it's time to order some "real" lug nuts though!

I always use a torque wrench, but the car does sometimes have wheels removed/replaced by trusted local shop.

But this has happened enough with these cars that "user error" doesn't cut it. Stock lug nuts and/or studs are marginal at best. I had thought known-good aftermarket studs would prevent issues, but clearly not in my case. It *could* be that premium lug nuts by themselves are sufficient.

I've never had an issue on any car. I always thread by hand until they are tight. Then I weld them on with my air impact. I change my wheels multiple times a year on multiple vehicles.

I think years of owning BMWs with lug studs helped reinforce my patience

All OEM studs are weak. They're cast iron...

Here's a list of studs I've broken by hand, via breaker bar:

OE Nissan
OE Toyota
OE Subaru
Nismo
ARP

The question of how it breaks/shears is a question of what caused you to put so much torque on it that it breaks. Keep in mind that you're supposed to tighten the lugs to around 80-90 ft-lb of torque, so if it stops moving and you're still applying torque, it will break. 80-90 isn't a lot of force if you're doing it right, especially if you are using a longer breaker bar or torque wrench.

Nobody has time to look up torque specs until after the failure.

Twins call for 89 ft-lb, which is pretty low torque for your typical 1/2" drive wrench or tire iron. I guess people think that since the lug nuts hold the wheels they need to be extra tight, thus easily over torquing them.

I'm surprised there are people who don't use a torque wrench. Who does'nt love a torque wrench?

Torque wrenches are annoying, it's like when your electric toothbrush cuts back and vibrates because you're pressing too hard.

I'm surprised shops that do thousands of tire changes using only an impact gun with no torque sticks never see failures, yet enthusiasts who are being careful break shit all the time. My first job ever was at a shop, just doing basic maintenance. Nobody had torque wrenches or nice tools- but no customers ever came back complaining.

Imho debris gums up the threads and it's easy to get little metal shavings on the threads if you're not super careful putting the wheel on, any little slide creates debris.

I put arp studs on and have changed my wheels more than I did with the stock studs without issue. Lesson learned.

The torque wrench...

has anyone noticed that shops show the customer the use of a torque wrench on the customer's wheels as a last step...AFTER the lug nuts have been spun on tight with a 1/2 inch drive impact wrench ?

Sure the torque wrench clicks...as those lug nuts are already torqued way beyond the proper value.

It's all for show.

The only way to get the proper torque at home is to tighten the nuts by hand, then do the final torque by hand, using the torque wrench.

The average half inch drive impact wrench, pneumatic or battery powered, would over torque those lug nuts every time.

only if you think of an impact gun as an on/off switch.

I use impact gun to get the lugs on, but I only do it after I hand thread it on. If you have a variable speed impact driver you can use it to speed up the process without overtorquing it.

I suspect any higher incidence of problems with the lugs and studs probably results from this group swapping wheels and tires more often than your average Camry. Consider that if you go two years between taking the wheels off your Camry but have your FRS wheels off every six months, you have quadrupled your opportunities to damage the studs. Some of you are swapping tires every weekend.

Most cars are not fine with cross threading and impact torquing. Go hang out with Jeep guys and see how many of those idiots break studs or end up destroying rims trying to remove seized lug nuts.

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/attach...129_215323.png

Poor people. Cheap people. Ignorant people who can't figure out how it works. Folks who drastically overestimate their ability to guess the right torque by feel (especially Jeep people). Stupid people who break it because it's the biggest wrench they have and they don't have a cheater bar.

Lots of people.

Many shops use regulated impact wrenches that don't over torque the lugs.

And some do see failures. I know because a shop failed one of mine right off onto the floor.

Think for a minute about what you said.

For the overwhelming majority of cars, removing lug nuts is not a frequent occurrence. 99.99% of the customers are not going to realize you fucked up their wheels until they're stuck in a dark parking lot with a flat 18 months later and either can't get the lug to break loose or end up breaking a stud trying. Even then, they may not realize it was your overzealous tightening that caused it.

And even if they do realize it, 1) it's been 18 months, so how do they prove you were at fault, and 2)why the hell would they take it back to the guys who fucked it up to have them fuck it up again?

OF COURSE you're not going to have customers coming back in to complain. The actual consequence is almost completely separated from the cause. It's the perfect job for avoiding complaints about incompetence.

Fair enough! Generally, we put on and removed most of their wheels ( very small town, we didn't even have a police department) every season so most of our customers were coming to us for everything. But I do agree, if there were other options, they would probably seek them out if they took issue with what we were doing. I still know that with my personal vehicle, I zip them on/off multiple times a year and never have a problem using just the tire iron to get them off

They are not cast iron they are heat treated hardened steel.
The majority of broken studs I have seen had little to do with over torque. People side load them when putting them on and off and snap them. They have very poor side stress resistance due to the hardening.
Easy enough to tell since ones that are over torqued will twist off flush with the hub since that is where the stress is. Ones that snap off at or outside of the rim were side loaded.
It is very easy to do without even realizing even by hand. I would be willing to bet that is what happens to most of the guys that have it happen frequently even if they want to blame everything and everybody else.
Over torqued ones are more likely to strip or stretch threads than to just snap off.

I wonder if using good lug nuts is the answer.

Hope I'm not jinxing myself but I've had no problems with the OEM studs. They're 8 years old now and I've taken my wheels off dozens of times because of track use/maintenance. One thing I did early on was replace the OEM lugs nuts with Gorilla closed end ones. Also used a torque wrench and hand tools. So far so good.

People are just soap boxing the obvious and not reading anything.

I and several others have stated they
HAND THREAD the lug nuts,
and then HAND TORQUE WRENCH to 89 lbs,
and DO NOT use an impact wrench,
yet have still had a seized stud.

So, it's not user error.

Anyone have a URL to an OEM looking high quality lug nut ?


Everyone already knows this obvious stuff.

If you've removed your wheels constantly, that is probably the reason you never got a seized lug.

My wheels were not removed for 3 years and I had a seized lug.
Not user error.

I still have OEM lug nuts.
What did you replace your lug nuts with?

Can you post a link to McGard lugs you got?

+1.
I had no idea OEM lugs are 2-piece crap with a vanity cap. They are going in the trash. I had another car where I had to hammer a smaller socket over the broken lug cap to get it off. Replaced every lug with McGard. Want to do the same with BRZ.

https://www.amazon.com/Lang-Tools-25...dp/B000XJ48V0/

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 To be installed once i get the ARP studs installed.

I used OEM nuts on my 86 for years, I did get some Project Mu nuts but only because I got them really cheap.

And then I binned it.....coincidence.....??????....LOL

That's interesting - perhaps the lug nuts seize to the studs due to corrosion? If people break studs only when unscrewing the nuts, this might cause it (as stated before, over torquing should lead to stretched studs or stripped threads, not seizure).

The saddest part is that that was the PERFECT colour plate on that car!!!!!!


https://www.ft86club.com/forums/atta...1&d=1599704811

If you already knew all the answers why the hell ask the question?


User error is a major cause of seized nuts and broken studs and can not just be discarded from the conversation because you don't like the idea.


There is nothing at all wrong with the stock nuts on these cars. If they were on for 3 years then any make or style could seize on.

First time I took the wheels off my 2017, one of the nuts was seized. Ended up twisting off the stud. The wheels had been off at least once before I bought the car because it doesn't have stock tires, so maybe the tire shop cranked them on too tight. I'll be swapping the ARP studs because I go to tire shops when I buy tires and I don't have control over what goes on. BTW - does anyone have the part number for the ARP studs or a link?

Thanks! I tried searching on their site and was getting weird results. I think its because I started with "Toyota".

Doesn't mean shit. Could have flattened a thread or had debris on the stud or lug. It doesn't take much of a bur to get it stuck. Especially with a hardened bolt, thread damage easily seizes them as to where a "soft" bolt is more ductile.

Sounds like corrosion. Do you not rotate your tires :iono:

Any merit to this theory in addition to contamination/cross trheading?

- When removing the wheels by hand, some (all) weight is left on the wheel so it won't just spin when trying to "crack loose" the lugs.
- lugs are loosened just a bit too much, and the hub-centering doesn't hold the weight (car on a slight angle, etc)
- Last lug as it's turned has all the weight of that corner on it. It's side-loaded and the threads get galled.
- Corner is jacked up to remove wheel now that the lugs are not at 90 ft-lbs, but the some damage is done.

Now throw in some grit and or the bits of metal that come off the galled threads as the lug nut is worked on/off... ?